[bthornton]


Howdy! Long time reader, first time poster...

 

So my Polk RM510 speakers came in today. I'm coming from a 3-speaker setup with Polk RTi6 fronts and a Polk CSi3 center channel. I've been very happy with this setup, but I'm in a small-ish apartment and wanted to get something that I could mount on the wall and reclaim some floor space. I found a good price on the Polk RM510 set, so I decided to jump on that.

 

For sake of a rough comparison, I decided to disconnect one of my RTi6 front channels and hook up one of the new RM8 satellites. I know, these speakers are apples and oranges, but I just wanted to get a sense of the high range on the RT8s. I didn't even change any settings on my AVR (Harman-Kardon AVR-1650). First impressions were good and the RM8 held its own against the other RTi6. However, after listening to some different music (in stereo mode), I was surprised to find that the hi-hat/cymbal sound was almost completely absent in the RT8 satellite vs. the RTi6. This was surprising, as I expected the satellites to be on par with the bookshelf speakers on the high end.

 

My first thought was: I'm comparing in a fully broken-in bookshelf speaker to a right-out-of-the-box satellite. I bought the RTi6s used, so I don't really know how they sounded before they were broken-in. Is the absence of "high end" sound range expected on a new speaker? Or am I truly taking a large step down in sound quality with the RM510?

 

For what it's worth: My listening habits are about 75% television/streaming video (Chromecast), 20% music (high bitrate digital streaming), and 5% movies. That's why I was happy with the 3-speaker setup for so long (also because I didn't need a subwoofer--which my apartment neighbors appreciate). I've never had a sub/sat setup before, but I'm hoping that I can still get decent sound for music with the subwoofer level kept relatively low. But if I'm mistaken in my assumptions and the sub/sat setup really is a downgrade from my 3-speaker setup, let me know while I'm still within the return period!

 

Thanks!

 

[Avgass]

My understanding is that woofers and subwoofers can change their sound through the first hours of use due to the changing flexibility of surrounds and spiders as the drivers move for the first time. This results in a genuine change in their Theile Small Parameters. The higher the frequency range, the less drivers move and the less the potential change in sound.


Audiophiles often espouse great changes in sound due to "break-in" of high frequency drivers which can only be attributed to the human factor (a change in our perception) or "getting used to a particular sound".


I am familiar with the sound of the RTi series of speakers and am a fan of them and the value they represent but am not familiar with the RM510s so can't say how they should sound in comparison to the RTis. However, I think it's safe to say that the treble sounds you are missing are unlikely to magically re-appear with further use. It's likely that either the RM510s are defective or that's just how they sound. Having said this, one thing you could try is re-running the auto calibration on your receiver.

 

[lovinthehd]

Nice explanation by avgass on the break-in. Have no idea about Polk series of any type....

 

[arnyk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bthornton  /t/1517580/speaker-break-in-or#post_24350716


Howdy! Long time reader, first time poster...

So my Polk RM510 speakers came in today. I'm coming from a 3-speaker setup with Polk RTi6 fronts and a Polk CSi3 center channel. I've been very happy with this setup, but I'm in a small-ish apartment and wanted to get something that I could mount on the wall and reclaim some floor space. I found a good price on the Polk RM510 set, so I decided to jump on that.


For sake of a rough comparison, I decided to disconnect one of my RTi6 front channels and hook up one of the new RM8 satellites. I know, these speakers are apples and oranges, but I just wanted to get a sense of the high range on the RT8s. I didn't even change any settings on my AVR (Harman-Kardon AVR-1650). First impressions were good and the RM8 held its own against the other RTi6. However, after listening to some different music (in stereo mode), I was surprised to find that the hi-hat/cymbal sound was almost completely absent in the RT8 satellite vs. the RTi6. This was surprising, as I expected the satellites to be on par with the bookshelf speakers on the high end.


My first thought was: I'm comparing in a fully broken-in bookshelf speaker to a right-out-of-the-box satellite. I bought the RTi6s used, so I don't really know how they sounded before they were broken-in. Is the absence of "high end" sound range expected on a new speaker? Or am I truly taking a large step down in sound quality with the RM510?

The differences among different makes and models of speakers are relatively huge compared to that far more subtle process called speaker break in.


Speakers can change their technical parameters when first turned on, but the process is largely reversible. If you leave them turned off long enough, they largely revert to almost like-new condition. Not only that, the nature of the changes tend to sonically cancel each other out.


Ever visit a speaker factory or a better yet a driver factory? In the process of production line testing there is usually some fairly stressful operation which kicks off the two steps forward, 1.99 steps back break-in process.


When consumers get new speakers, the parameter that changes the most during the initial use phase is their perceptions. Scientific studies show that listening pleasure is dominated by hearing familiar sounds, so anything new and different has an uphill battle ahead of it. It's almost a surprise that people stick with new songs, new speakers, and new listening rooms long enough to start liking them.


In some ways its good that we also get bored with the same-old, same-old and are attracted to the latest new thing because that tends to overcome our natural desire for things to stay familiar and comfortable.

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Avgass  /t/1517580/speaker-break-in-or#post_24351258


My understanding is that woofers and subwoofers can change their sound through the first hours of use due to the changing flexibility of surrounds and spiders as the drivers move for the first time. This results in a genuine change in their Theile Small Parameters. The higher the frequency range, the less drivers move and the less the potential change in sound.

+1. OP, don't expect much of a change in the highs, if any. You need to re-run your EQ for the new speakers.

 

[bthornton]


Knew I'd get top-notch responses from you guys!

 

So definitely sounds like the difference I'm noticing is not attributable to speaker break-in. I can play with my EQ some but, in general, I'm not expecting much; the AVR-1650 is probably what you'd call an "entry level" receiver and doesn't give me a lot of levers to pull. And, ultimately, we have two speakers getting the same signal, with one clearly producing sounds that the other is not. Sounds like deficiency in speaker design to me.

 

Just to be sure: The RM510 set comes with both RM8 and RM7 satellite speakers. The RM8--which I tested--are dipole speakers and the RM7s are conventional satellites. I'd want the RM8s to be my fronts in this case, right?

 

[adam2434]

Having owned RTi8's from the same series, I found them to be very bright (too bright for me personally).


If the RTi6 is as bright as the RTi8, perhaps you've just become accustomed to a bright speaker, and perhaps the new speakers are just more mellow in the upper frequencies.

 

[arnyk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bthornton  /t/1517580/speaker-break-in-or#post_24353242


Knew I'd get top-notch responses from you guys!


So definitely sounds like the difference I'm noticing is not attributable to speaker break-in. I can play with my EQ some but, in general, I'm not expecting much; the AVR-1650 is probably what you'd call an "entry level" receiver and doesn't give me a lot of levers to pull. And, ultimately, we have two speakers getting the same signal, with one clearly producing sounds that the other is not. Sounds like deficiency in speaker design to me.


Just to be sure: The RM510 set comes with both RM8 and RM7 satellite speakers. The RM8--which I tested--are dipole speakers and the RM7s are conventional satellites. I'd want the RM8s to be my fronts in this case, right?

The AVR 1650 has an EZ Setup automated system optimization facility described on page 17 of the owners manual: http://www.harmankardon.com/images/media/AVR1650_OM_EN.pdf


It is at least worth a try...

 

[RayGuy]



Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1517580/speaker-break-in-or#post_24351413


"When consumers get new speakers, the parameter that changes the most during the initial use phase is their perceptions. Scientific studies show that listening pleasure is dominated by hearing familiar sounds, so anything new and different has an uphill battle ahead of it. It's almost a surprise that people stick with new songs, new speakers, and new listening rooms long enough to start liking them."

This is very true. I have recently been involved in purchasing a hearing aid for my elderly mother, and the perception issues have proven to be the most daunting aspect of the entire process. There is a resistance to "new sounds" that the brain has to have time to adjust to. It's a normal process and must be given time.


That said, I am a firm believer in speaker break-in as a real phenomena, so it may help to run them during the day, when you are at work to let them break in more quickly. Also, each speaker has it's own character. Positioning may need to be altered. Either closer or further from the back wall, or side walls, or even height can make a large difference. Toe-in or lack thereof can matter, as well. The recommendation to re-calibrate is also a good one.


If, after you have experimented with all these things, and have given it a month (whatever the return policy is) you are still unhappy with the sound, you may just have to chalk it up to experience and make a different choice.


There's more to music than just cymbal sounds ... unless of course you are a drummer by trade, in which case ... never mind.

 

[Gmash]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bthornton  /t/1517580/speaker-break-in-or#post_24353242


Knew I'd get top-notch responses from you guys!


So definitely sounds like the difference I'm noticing is not attributable to speaker break-in. I can play with my EQ some but, in general, I'm not expecting much; the AVR-1650 is probably what you'd call an "entry level" receiver and doesn't give me a lot of levers to pull. And, ultimately, we have two speakers getting the same signal, with one clearly producing sounds that the other is not. Sounds like deficiency in speaker design to me.


Just to be sure: The RM510 set comes with both RM8 and RM7 satellite speakers. The RM8--which I tested--are dipole speakers and the RM7s are conventional satellites. I'd want the RM8s to be my fronts in this case, right?

I would think the conventional speakers should be in front, and the dipoles as surrounds.

 

[bthornton]


Well, between your responses and my own testing, I've boxed-up the RM510 speakers and will be returning them to Newegg. I say that having not really given them a fighting chance; I never hooked up the sub or the surround speakers. But as I was cranking the volume with my bookshelf speakers (Polk RTi6/CSi3 center), I was thinking how doing the same thing with a 10" subwoofer would probably not make my downstairs neighbors happy. I probably am used to "bright" sound--and sound that unfortunately is lacking in bass--but that's kinda how it has to be in an apartment. Bright sound isn't going to travel through walls and ceilings like low-frequency bass.

 

Thanks again for the responses.

 

[upNdown]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bthornton  /t/1517580/speaker-break-in-or#post_24364711


Well, between your responses and my own testing, I've boxed-up the RM510 speakers and will be returning them to Newegg. I say that having not really given them a fighting chance; I never hooked up the sub or the surround speakers. But as I was cranking the volume with my bookshelf speakers (Polk RTi6/CSi3 center), I was thinking how doing the same thing with a 10" subwoofer would probably not make my downstairs neighbors happy. I probably am used to "bright" sound--and sound that unfortunately is lacking in bass--but that's kinda how it has to be in an apartment. Bright sound isn't going to travel through walls and ceilings like low-frequency bass.


Thanks again for the responses.

I feel like people here were overthinking things. I think it has very little to do with what you're used to, and everything to do with the fact that you were replacing a nice pair of bookshelf speakers with a box of cheap speakers.