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This is also not true - as if a precisely sized tube is needed to constrain electron flow, make the wire too large and electrons suddenly get confused. Minimum wire size is important only to keep DC resistance to an acceptable amount. Using a larger gauge has no benefit and also no drawbacks.


What? Higher gauge means thinner wire and will most definitely have more voltage drop. Any lower gauge than the minimum gauge necessary will keep the voltage drop low enough to keep the integrity of the signal.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
 

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Well, connect a 4 Ohm resistor that can pass "enough current" in series to your cable and see for yourself.

The voltage drop is what matters and if the cables are pure copper it is going to be the same no matter who puts their name on them.




-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
 

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The voltage drop is what matters and if the cables are pure copper it is going to be the same no matter who puts their name on them.




-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
Huh, I meant electrical damping reduction due to higher resistance of the cables.
You need quite long runs, but still possible.
 

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Huh, I meant electrical damping reduction due to higher resistance of the cables.


You are trying to cherry pick and that doesn’t work. It is a system level problem based on overall resistance and voltage to determine how much current will flow.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
 

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You are trying to cherry pick and that doesn’t work. It is a system level problem based on overall resistance and voltage to determine how much current will flow.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
What do you mean "system level problem"?
What exactly is your "system"?
 

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What do you mean "system level problem"?
What exactly is your "system"?


Really?????

Let’s assume the signal coming into the amp is stable so we will make our cut there. The system is the amp the signal goes into, the wire, and the speaker. They all determine current.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.
 

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If there is no model, there is no physics, just your belief, no better than "audiophiles" beliefs that you despise.


Here is a fun physics experiment for you:
Disconnect your speaker from amplifier.
Gently tap on the cone, and listen to a sound.
Now, short speaker terminals with really short wire (your speaker wire will do if it is short and low AWG) and tap cone again, listen to a sound.
Some speakers are better than the others for this experiment but still some food for thought.

What does that have to do with cables :confused:


Expensive speaker wire is just as ridiculous as expensive power cords. :rolleyes:
 

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What does that have to do with cables :confused:


Expensive speaker wire is just as ridiculous as expensive power cords. :rolleyes:
Well, cables determine (most amplifiers are have way lower impedance than cables) the effect you would observe by doing this - electrical damping.
Long runs of low quality high AWG cable = lowering of electrical damping factor, how noticeable that would be will depend on speaker. Connecting a resistor in series or tapping a cone demonstrates effect very well.
And I never said "buy expensive cable", I said "buy canare or electrical appliance cable", because they are good and have verified performance (Canare is just a good cable, and electrical appliance should be regulated), they are not expensive cables at all.
 

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What? Higher gauge means thinner wire and will most definitely have more voltage drop. Any lower gauge than the minimum gauge necessary will keep the voltage drop low enough to keep the integrity of the signal.


-To be an audiophile you must abandon all research and science.

Pardon me. I equated higher gauge with larger wire - even though the gauge number decreases. So I thought you meant using a larger wire than needed would make distortion. Apologies.
 

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Well, I wish I had gone with 12 gauge, or even 14 gauge. I went with 10 gauge and I think it's over kill and it puts a lot of stress on connectors from the weight. Just sayin.
 
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Well, cables determine (most amplifiers are have way lower impedance than cables) the effect you would observe by doing this - electrical damping.
Long runs of low quality high AWG cable = lowering of electrical damping factor, how noticeable that would be will depend on speaker. Connecting a resistor in series or tapping a cone demonstrates effect very well.
And I never said "buy expensive cable", I said "buy canare or electrical appliance cable", because they are good and have verified performance (Canare is just a good cable, and electrical appliance should be regulated), they are not expensive cables at all.
Of course you'll have problems using 16awg wire for a 40ft run with 4ohm speakers. There are certain guidelines to be followed which is what those charts are for. $35 OFC copper will work the same as $800 OFC copper or Canare or whatever else you're selling if the right gauge is used for length and impedance. Noone is arguing that yet you keep on arguing pointlessly. This thread should have been closed after post #5 at the most.
 
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Well, I wish I had gone with 12 gauge, or even 14 gauge. I went with 10 gauge and I think it's over kill and it puts a lot of stress on connectors from the weight. Just sayin.
^^^^^^
THIS

Just follow the chart guideline and you can't go wrong. There is no need to go overboard, thick cables are very often a pain to deal with.

I built bi-wire 10gauge speaker cables just for kicks (2 10 gauge in parallel) for a 6 foot run for my 2-channel system -- they are like jumper cables bound in tech flex. I just did it for the hell of it and the equipment I am connecting to can handle the weight, but thick cables are often a pain. Don't go too thick, don't go too thin. You can go thinner than the chart and get away with it, but why would anyone do that when the difference in cost is usually only a couple of dollars.
 

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Well, cables determine (most amplifiers are have way lower impedance than cables) the effect you would observe by doing this - electrical damping.
Long runs of low quality high AWG cable = lowering of electrical damping factor, how noticeable that would be will depend on speaker. Connecting a resistor in series or tapping a cone demonstrates effect very well.
And I never said "buy expensive cable", I said "buy canare or electrical appliance cable", because they are good and have verified performance (Canare is just a good cable, and electrical appliance should be regulated), they are not expensive cables at all.
Of course you'll have problems using 16awg wire for a 40ft run with 4ohm speakers. There are certain guidelines to be followed which is what those charts are for. $35 OFC copper will work the same as $800 OFC copper or Canare or whatever else you're selling if the right gauge is used for length and impedance. Noone is arguing that yet you keep on arguing pointlessly. This thread should have been closed after post #5 at the most.
Well, first, I am not selling anything.
Second, not every stated gauge is stated gauge and resistance (well at least where I live, maybe you have better regulated audio cables, but looking at the table I posted before, you have pretty much the same situation, implying that table is not wrong).

But if you are 100% sure with electrical parameters of cable you want to buy - go on, why not. I just wanted to warn users that actual parameters might be not what you expect thus making those charts inapplicable.
 

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Apparently you will have to be using very long runs of cable or unusually thin cable for it to really interfere with the sound, no matter whether CCA or OFC.
What does annoy me about CCA is the feel of the cable and the lack of resilience. It just doesn't floppily bend like copper does, and it's easy to fracture. I wired up CCA in a banana plug perfectly well and had a problem when I jogged it- it can be fractured simply by tightening it to binding posts. Aluminium has always had a poor reputation for resilience, e.g. in push bikes.
So basically I made the wrong choice of CCA for a cable to do A/B comparisons even with a banana plug to protect the wire from constant crushing in screw terminals. Seems to me CCA is only good for speaker setups that stay put, if you for some reason must save $10 or whatever.
I would happily have paid 50% more on real copper just for better flexibility and resilience.
 

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What does annoy me about CCA is the feel of the cable and the lack of resilience. It just doesn't floppily bend like copper does, and it's easy to fracture. I wired up CCA in a banana plug perfectly well and had a problem when I jogged it- it can be fractured simply by tightening it to binding posts. Aluminium has always had a poor reputation for resilience, e.g. in push bikes.
So basically I made the wrong choice of CCA for a cable to do A/B comparisons even with a banana plug to protect the wire from constant crushing in screw terminals. Seems to me CCA is only good for speaker setups that stay put, if you for some reason must save $10 or whatever.
I would happily have paid 50% more on real copper just for better flexibility and resilience.
^^^^^^ EXACTLY THIS ^^^^^^^

Aluminum is not malleable. It really doesn't handle twisting or contortion well at all. I just bought some underground speaker wire (Mediabridge 14GA), which happened to be CCA (I didn't really pay much attention when I ordered it -- a mistake I will not make again).

Even though 14-gauge wire is fairly thick, when you twist the exposed CCA wire, it doesn't stay twisted. When you try to join the 14GA CCA with 14GA OFC, it's like rapping string (OFC) around a pole (OFC). I can't imagine this stuff being durable long-term, especially if you move the cable a lot. Maybe there is better quality CCA that has a higher percentage of copper, so the difference is less dramatic than what I experienced, but I will not buy any wire that has an aluminum core ever again.
 

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Well, I wish I had gone with 12 gauge, or even 14 gauge. I went with 10 gauge and I think it's over kill and it puts a lot of stress on connectors from the weight. Just sayin.
even 12 gauge can strain some connections .. good point...
 

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Speaker Wire Length for 3% and 5% Signal Loss (5% is considered acceptable) -

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1910257-fyi-signal-loss-speaker-wire-length.html#post32129745







Power Handling of Common Speaker Wire -

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/2732169-perspective-speaker-wire-how-much-enough.html

16ga wire would break down like this -

Power = Current² x Resistance = 3.7² x 8 = 13.69 x 8 = 109.52 sustained watts of power

Power = Current² x Resistance = 12² x 8 = 144 x 8 = 1152 peak working watts

Power = Current² x Resistance = 22² x 8 = 484 x 8 = 3872 max peak watts of power


14ga wire would look like this -

Power = Current² x Resistance = 5.9² x 8 = 34.81 x 8 = 279 sustained watts of power

Power = Current² x Resistance = 15² x 8 = 225 x 8 = 1800 peak working watts of power

Power = Current² x Resistance = 32² x 8 = 1024 x 8 = 8192 max peak watts of power


12ga wire would break down like this -

P
ower = Current² x Resistance = 9.3² x 8 = 86.49 x 8 = 692 sustained watts of power

Power = Current² x Resistance = 20² x 8 = 400 x 8 = 3200 peak working watts of power

Power = Current² x Resistance = 41² x 8 = 1600 x 8 = 12,800 max peak watts of power


As others have said, if you are under normal circumstances, that is not exceptionally long wire runs, then any Oxygen Free Copper (OFC) of 14ga will get the job done. Generally you are looking for purity above 99%, but you will find that 99.9% and 99.99% are common.


With 13ga (2.5²mm) wire, at 50 feet or more, Inductive losses start to add up. From memory at 50ft, the combined Inductive and Resistive losses are about 15% which translates to roughly 1.5dB. Keep in mind that Inductive loss is frequency dependent, so in this example, the losses at 3500hz are about 3% but the losses at 12khz are about 10%.

I think for front speakers, most people will have no problem keeping their losses due to the Resistive aspect of speaker wire down in the area of 1%.




But longer runs come with a second problem I had never calculated before. Using the above analysis, I determined what frequencies would be effected by the Inductive Impedance of 50ft of very common 13ga/2.5mm² twin lead cable.

At 2.286% Inductive Impedance loss, the frequency was 3,614hz.

That is MUCH lower than I would have imagined.

At 10% Inductive Impedance loss, the frequency was 12,650hz.

Capacitive loses were still well outside the Audio Range. But, again, the Inductive losses were much more significant than I imagined.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/89-speakers/1907265-speaker-cable-debate-perspective.html

This thread focus on all the measurable parameters of Speaker Cable -

- Resistance
- Inductance
- Capacitance
- Skin Effect
- Current and Power handling capacity.

We have also considered Power Handling ability. With all these factors combined and all reaching the same conclusion, I'm not sure what else we need to know.

All the high claims made by high-end speakers are true - long grain copper, Litz Wire, etc.... - they are true, but they don't matter. Plus while fancy Jacket and Pants look cool and cost money, they too don't functionally matter.

You might want something prettier than this, but this is all you really need unless your circumstances are unusual -

KabelDirekt Speaker wire - 14ga, 99.9% Pure OFC Copper - $30.92/50ft -


https://www.amazon.com/KabelDirekt-Speaker-Wire-Audiophiles-Systems/dp/B07BBRQ5YT

Just passing it on.

Steve/bluewizard
 
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