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Discussion Starter #1
i ran into a problem when i bought a receiver and found out that it doesnt have preouts for my 2 channel amp to power my 4 ohm speakers, im trying to find a way to connect my receiver (denon avr 1610) to my b&k 2 channel amp, i came across harrison labs x connect speaker to line level converter. does anybody have an experience with these?

http://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?section=13


will this work?

is this a viable solution?

thanks in advance
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by soup dragon  /t/1419246/speaker-level-to-line-level-adaptors#post_22199823


i ran into a problem when i bought a receiver and found out that it doesnt have preouts for my 2 channel amp to power my 4 ohm speakers, im trying to find a way to connect my receiver (denon avr 1610) to my b&k 2 channel amp, i came across harrison labs x connect speaker to line level converter. does anybody have an experience with these?
http://store.hlabs.com/pk4/store.pl?section=13

will this work?

is this a viable solution?

thanks in advance

There are bunches of these things, more often found and used in the realms of car audio.


What they basically do is very simple and should be hard to screw up. Nobody has the time and money to actually try them all.


On the evening of the 4th I was listening to a very large well-optimized 9.2 system that was based on a mid-priced receiver driving gizmos like these, and thence into some very heavy stuff. It sounded magnificent!


Modern power amps, particularly when driving a high value resistive load such as these, generally have such low distortion and noise that adding another good amp after them has no (zero) audible consequences.


IME up to 5-20 generations of amps and couplers like these can be hooked up before a reliably audible difference can be heard. Since they raise the source impedance of the amplifier as seen by the cables to the next amplifier in the chain, keeping cable lengths reasonable may be a priority. Probably not.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk  /t/1419246/speaker-level-to-line-level-adaptors#post_22199895


Modern power amps, particularly when driving a high value resistive load such as these, generally have such low distortion and noise that adding another good amp after them has no (zero) audible consequences.

That's what I was thinking too. The OP's receiver outputs 75 watts per channel, so less his B&K puts out appreciably more, there seems little reason to even use a separate power amp.


--Ethan
 

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Discussion Starter #5
in adding the x connect, will the speaker terminals act like a preamp out (more like transferring sound rather than driving speakers) the xconnect has gain controls, do you think setting it to maximum will transfer most of the driving to the amp

thanks in advance
 

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Quote:
the xconnect has gain controls,

It's passive, it can't have any gain.


The xconnect consists of a voltage divider and proabably a transformer for the isolation they suggest it has.

All it does is reduce the voltage from the power amp, using a resistive voltage divider.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
im pretty ignorant with these terms and gadgets, but can it function like i thought it would. will it convert it to a preamp in terms of drawing power from the receiver and have the external amp do the work, or will it draw power like its driving speakers? i just want the receiver to give more juice to the rear channels rather than spending it on the fronts which already has a separate amp to drive it. the denons 75 watts per channel (rms) which is only true if 2 channels are driven and if 4 channels cause im only running it 4.1 (with a phantom center); its going to be much less. i dont drive my system loud, but with a lot of headroom i think the sound is going to be more robust and open even when played at moderate levels.

thanks in advance
 

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Quote:
or will it draw power like its driving speakers?

It's not a speaker , it's a high impedance voltage divider. It will dissipate a very small amount of power. The power amp you connect it to will supply the power to drive the speakers you connect to it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by soup dragon  /t/1419246/speaker-level-to-line-level-adaptors#post_22207519


im pretty ignorant with these terms and gadgets, but can it function like i thought it would. will it convert it to a preamp in terms of drawing power from the receiver and have the external amp do the work, or will it draw power like its driving speakers? i just want the receiver to give more juice to the rear channels rather than spending it on the fronts which already has a separate amp to drive it. the denons 75 watts per channel (rms) which is only true if 2 channels are driven and if 4 channels cause im only running it 4.1 (with a phantom center); its going to be much less. i dont drive my system loud, but with a lot of headroom i think the sound is going to be more robust and open even when played at moderate levels.

thanks in advance

Each speaker output is serviced by a separate amplifier inside the receiver. Leaving aside power supply issues, nothing you do to one amplifier module is going to allow another amplifier module to use the power the first one puts out.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by soup dragon  /t/1419246/speaker-level-to-line-level-adaptors#post_22207519


im pretty ignorant with these terms and gadgets, but can it function like i thought it would. will it convert it to a preamp in terms of drawing power from the receiver and have the external amp do the work, or will it draw power like its driving speakers? i just want the receiver to give more juice to the rear channels rather than spending it on the fronts which already has a separate amp to drive it. the denons 75 watts per channel (rms) which is only true if 2 channels are driven and if 4 channels cause im only running it 4.1 (with a phantom center); its going to be much less. i dont drive my system loud, but with a lot of headroom i think the sound is going to be more robust and open even when played at moderate levels.

thanks in advance

Confirming what SAM64 said well - The power drain of a class AB power amplifier (what you find inside just about every audio power amp) is highly dependent on the load. The products we are talking about draw negligable amounts of power, so each output stage's drain on the receiver power supply will be minimal. This will be confirmed by a negligible temperature rise as compared to the receiver just sitting there powered up, no speakers attached, idling.


These devices turn just about any SS receiver into a preamp that can also drive speakers.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
thanks for the info, it is very helpful

so you think a car application speaker to line level converter that claims a 30w max will suffice and not will not overload

considering that it doesnt really take much power from the receiver

thanks
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by soup dragon  /t/1419246/speaker-level-to-line-level-adaptors#post_22208930


thanks for the info, it is very helpful

so you think a car application speaker to line level converter that claims a 30w max will suffice and not will not overload

considering that it doesnt really take much power from the receiver

thanks

On second look, I see a larger problem. The device you linked seems to have a feature that will affect the low frequency response of your system adversely.


"Built in Subsonic filter 37 Hz"


Try this one instead:

http://www.bossaudio.com/auto/high-lever-to-low-level-converter-b65n/
 

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be careful when choosing a line-level adaptor like the ones linked in this post, a lot of them are designed for car stereos, so they will only handle 20 watts.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by WagBoss  /t/1419246/speaker-level-to-line-level-adapters#post_22213299


be careful when choosing a line-level adaptor like the ones linked in this post, a lot of them are designed for car stereos, so they will only handle 20 watts.

Shouldn't be a problem as you don't have to run the amp or receiver that drives the line-level-adptor to full output. These products have gain controls so you can drive the power amp to full output without taxing whatever drives the adaptor.


It's not really an issue of choice, but rather an issue of setup. Don't turn the gain on the adaptor all the way down. and this issue will be moot.
 

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I realize that this thread is a few months old, but I'm going to revive it for a little more technical discussion.


I'm trying to do something very similar to what Mr. soup was trying to do with a system I'm working on now. The goal is to add external amplification to some relatively power hungry front stage speakers. I would let the receiver continue to power the surround speakers. As I work through this in my mind, it seems that it would provide two main benefits. First the external amplifier would provide much more headroom for the front speakers. And second it might clear up some headroom from the receiver for the surround speakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz  /t/1419246/speaker-level-to-line-level-adapters#post_22208613


Leaving aside power supply issues, nothing you do to one amplifier module is going to allow another amplifier module to use the power the first one puts out.
This comment refutes my second advantage mentioned above. But is it fair to leave aside power supply issues? What most commonly causes a receiver to clip/distort? Is it the individual power amplifier stage asking for a higher voltage than its supply voltage due to preamplifier gain being too high? Or is it the common power supply letting its output voltage dip due to excessive current draw? (Or is it some other failure mode I haven't thought of?) If it's the latter, I'd think that reducing the demands on the common power supply could provide benefit to the remaining channels driven by the receiver.


And another concern I had with a setup like this is phase matching. Every time you run a signal through a power amplifier you get some kind of phase shift, right? In the standard use case of a budget receiver like the one mentioned every channel is fed through an identical power amplifier, so their phase shifts should all match. But the addition of external amplification for only some of the channels would mean that some channels will have gone through one stage of power amplification and other channels will have gone through two stages. Is this cause for concern?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pitviper33  /t/1419246/speaker-level-to-line-level-adapters#post_22430484


But is it fair to leave aside power supply issues?

It depends on your receiver and how it's spec'd. Does the power rating claim XX watts with all channels driven at once, or is it vague about that?

Quote:
What most commonly causes a receiver to clip/distort? Is it the individual power amplifier stage asking for a higher voltage than its supply voltage due to preamplifier gain being too high? Or is it the common power supply letting its output voltage dip due to excessive current draw?

It's simply asking the amp to put out more power than it's capable of.
Quote:
Every time you run a signal through a power amplifier you get some kind of phase shift, right?

Phase shift and number of stages is almost never a problem, though polarity should be verified.


--Ethan
 

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Ive been using one of these for about 6months now to feed 2 additional subs, as my amp has no "sub out",

and the subs have no "speaker level in".

Works perfectly, with no issues.



 
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