Speaker or Receiver Upgrade first?

The only reason you should upgrade the receiver first is:


1) if you have a really crappy receiver that isn't even allowing your current speakers to perform near their peak. With you, this is not the case.


2) If you're planning on getting some really exotic speakers that have low impedance, some crazy phase shifts, or really low sensitivity ratings (like Vienna Acoustics, Martin-Logan's higher models, or other exotic brands). In this case, a proper amplifier can really make a huge difference.


So unless you're planning on going in this range of speaker, ultimately, I would upgrade your speakers first.


Actually, forget what I just said. Invest in $1000 of cables - that'll make an even bigger difference! *ducks*

I'd also recommend speakers first. I had "OK" speakers and upgraded the receiver first, and had been itchin' for new speakers ever since then. However, I really had no choice, as I was using what is now a 19 year old Fisher integrated 2ch receiver. The receiver made a huge difference with movies, but nonetheless, the speakers needed upgrading. I just picked up a pair of the Paradigm Monitor 7s that you're considering, and they are terrific speakers with my Yamaha RX-V1300.


Also, back in June, I built a 15" sub, and opted for that before new mains. Like pittdog1 said, that alone can make a huge difference, and although I was using the old Fisher and the old Fisher 3 way towers (15" subs) for LFE, the new sub was an enormous improvement. Now with the Monitor 7s, I'm in acoustic bliss, especially for my budget.


Last year, I added the CC-270 center (was planning on getting matching Phantoms later), which also made a huge difference, and is the only reason my Boston Acoustics HD8 bookshelves were acceptable for the last year. The CC-270 filled in the lacking midrange and highs, not to mention the general advantages of a center. You could always start with the center and sub, and work from there. It has taken 2 years, but worked out great for me in the end.

Thanks for your replies


I forgot to add that I do have a sub a 10" 150W Hitachi sub that's pumping out more boom than bass. That's why I'm getting the Dayton first. I have calibrated the whole system with a SPL, but it's missing that "dynamic movie sound" especially out of the center channel.


GlennT


Does the cc270 timbre match the Monitor 7's? I was looking at that center channel as it's quite a bit cheaper than the cc370. I got a great price quote for a pair of Monitor 11's and the cc370 but it's out of my budget range right now but I might try and swing it. The cc370 is massive and at 25 lbs. The plane of the speakers are at a slight upward tilt which I didn't like since it's going on top of a RPTV. How would you compare the Phantoms to the Monitor 7's for music and movies?


Pittdog1

That's the reason I was thinking of upgrading the receiver first. With the STR DE 695 there isn't much I can do with bass management. It has no crossover settings. The only setting I have is setting the speakers to large or small. If I make either the center or the mains large or small it set's the other one as the same. I've tried it at small with changing the crossover on the Hitachi sub from all the way open 200Hz to 50Hz and everywhere in betwwen and there's a whole chunk of lower midrange that gets cut out. Having them (mains and center) set at large fills it in again so that's where I leave it, but the bass on them is being distorted at higher volumes (nowhere near reference volume- probably at 60-70%). I thought a receiver like the 1015 with better bass management and more juice to the speakers may alleviate some of the problems.

If it's a really bad/old receiver, upgrading to one with more bass management options could help (and give you better power) improve your sound. And it would be cheaper than springing for all new speakers.


I recently upgraded from an HK 125 to an HK 330. Somewhere down the line I'm hoping to upgrade my speakers, but my Infinity setup sounds fine. But in upgrading my receiver, I went from a fixed 100Hz crossover for Small setting, to an adjustable crossover (40, 60, 80, 100, 120, 200) and much more features. I was able to pick up my remanufactured AVR330 on ebay, from the Harman resaler. The original SRP was $800, but I got mine for under $300 (and I sold the 125 locally for $120.)


My other upgrade this year was my subwoofer. My old sub shouldn't even be called a sub. But I upgraded to an Acoustech H100, and that really breathed life into my HT (down to 24Hz).



For speakers, you might be able to get some really nice stuff from Fluance ( http://www.fluance.com/ ). My father just set up a dedicated room with a Dayton 12" sub, with 2x AV-F3 mini-towers, an AV-SC center channel, and 3x an AV-BP2 surrounds (under $400 for speakers). I haven't done any "critical" listening, but from some listening to music and some movie scenes, they sound very clean and play very loud (with my father's 100wpc Onkyo). I was able to crank some movies (Incredibles, Pirates/Carib, Harry Potter 2, etc.) to -10RL and it was still clean and powerful -- in his 11x9 room anyway.

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So far, the CC-270 / Monitor 7 combination has been excellent and I haven't noticed any timbre/tonal differences, but I also don't have the most developed ears out there and it has been less than a week. I also have not used the combination with music yet, with all music played back in 2ch, with only the subwoofer to aid the low end. That's honestly where I heard the biggest differences between the CC-270 and my Bostons before the 'digm towers. I didn't audition the CC-370 since I was aiming for the performance line a year ago, and that was all behind me when auditioning the 7s. At any rate, I'm more than happy with the combo.


Also, the CC-270 shares the same basic shape that the CC-370 has, and mine also points slightly overhead due to the sloped front bezel. I couldn't fit it in the cabinet below our TV, but oddly enough, Paradigm actually recommends that it be placed on top IIRC. I've been meaning to build a shelf to change the angle, but there are set-top shelves available that have adjustments built in for playing with the angle. It hasn't bothered me enough to do either yet, but I may not know what I'm missing.


As for the Phantoms - I haven't heard them in over a year. My dealer no longer stocks nor demos them. There was a significant difference between the Esprits and the 7s though. A dealer 30 miles away has the Phantoms, but I didn't even bother going there since they were just $100 less than what the other dealer offered for the 7s ($650/pair). If I were just doing the HT thing, I may have given the Phantoms more consideration, but I wanted a speaker that could also play music well and I fell in love with the 7s. Considering that the configurations are similar, with differences mainly being the drivers used, and differences between the Esprits and 7s, I think it is a given that the 7s are more musical. I auditioned Studio 20s briefly, and while they were more musical IMO, the 7s had a wider range which I thought would be better suited for HT use. For our 60/40 movies/music, I think it is an excellent compromise. For a 90/10 ratio or higher, the Phantoms might be a better value.


Like I said, with HT usage, the Boston HD8s were OK. I certainly hear more detail from the 7s, better imaging, and fuller sound, but it wasn't an in-your-face difference like music. Also, my 7s aren't even broken in yet and I haven't played with placement at all, yet I'm extremely happy with the imaging and sound; amazed actually (very poor room). I listened to Pink Floyd The Division Bell and a Blue Man Group CD, and just sat there listening and smiling while enveloped with music. The Incredibles and Shrek sounded surprisingly different, likely because of the lack mids and highs of the HD8s before, but I honestly think the difference between the Phantoms and 7s would be far less dramatic. The HD8s were also a huge upgrade to the rears that were borrowed Sony bookshelves, further effecting movies.

Well, I WAS going to do the logical thing and upgrade my speakers. I walk into a store and there was this stack of 1015's, black and silver(ugh). This is Friday, December 23rd and they started their Boxing Day Sale. Holy crap, that's the cheapest I've ever seen, even cheaper than the actual US price. Canadian MSRP is $599 (used to be $699 in the spring). That works out about to the US retail price so there isn't such a rip off here in Canada as it is with Onkyo, HK, Panasonic.

I walk away. I said I'm going to upgrade those speakers, build it around the center channel. I'm driving down the road and I remember that this other chain store that was bought out by BB here but still operates as their own store price matches and beats it by 10%. I get it for less than a 815 retails for. I was losing money if I didn't pick it up. So I appreciate what you guys have offered as the logical upgrade choice but man, that was too good to pass up. I'll let you know if it made a significant difference. If not, then it's a base to start my upgrade, just backwards of how I had it planned. That's why I try to avoid it (planning) since it never works for me Carpe diem or Carpe da Pioneer

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You don't have to build a special shelf. Just prop something under the back of it, like a couple of doorstops, or like me, just use a book (vary the pages to adjust the height). With the speaker aimed over your head, the sound goes right over your head and the highs become diluted. I'm sure the cc would sound much clearer if you stood up, so the tweeters are right in line with your ears. Just aim the speaker down at your ears. The left/right mains need to have the tweeters as close to ear level as possible as well.

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That's a good point. Speakers will last a long time, but receiver technology changes even year to year now. And with new DVD formats coming, there may even be new surround modes or better technology to handle the new lossless formats coming.