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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey guys,


I was able to go check out the house I will be moving into this weekend so I can see where I will be able to setup all my equipment.


50" Samsung plasma

L/R Dali Ikon 6s

Center None yet

Subwoofers: 2 PSB 6i's (I have a PSB 5i too that I might use)

Rears None yet but I was thinking like PSB B25 on stands


One problem with the room (actually the whole house) is that it is all tile. I basically have a 20 x 11 space to work with that is also attached to the kitchen and has a small opening to the entry way (attached picture).


I'm trying to think how I can setup my surrounds to be most effective. If I had them on tall articulating stands pointed in front of the couches would that be best?


Any suggestions are appreciated.


Thanks,

Pete
 

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you might consider dipole type surrounds mounted on the sides - on stands, within the 100 to 110 degree arc that Dolby Labs recommends. Dipoles will difuse the sound some and make it a little less directional, but might help with the less than ideal mounting positions.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_vanmeter /forum/post/16934276


you might consider dipole type surrounds mounted on the sides - on stands, within the 100 to 110 degree arc that Dolby Labs recommends. Dipoles will difuse the sound some and make it a little less directional, but might help with the less than ideal mounting positions.

+1... in fact, the less directional sound is desirable, especially if the surrounds are that close to the listening position... it prevents you from locating the sound source to the side, which ends up being distracting at best and actually can make you turn your head to see what's over there at the worst...


Most of what's coded for the surround speakers is intended as ambience, not effects, to set the mood ...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by glaufman /forum/post/16936473


Most of what's coded for the surround speakers is intended as ambience, not effects, to set the mood ...

I disagree. This was definitely the case in the days of Dolby Surround and Prologic, but now, more than just ambience is sent to the surrounds. A bullet or arrow, for example, just doesn't pan across properly in a dipole/bipole setup. That's my opinion, and there are MANY here who disagree


A lot of what will work for you depends on room size and placement and program material. So you know anyone that has dipoles you could borrow? Seriously, it will be worth the hassle to compare and see what you like best.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by amicusterrae /forum/post/16941991


I disagree. This was definitely the case in the days of Dolby Surround and Prologic, but now, more than just ambience is sent to the surrounds. A bullet or arrow, for example, just doesn't pan across properly in a dipole/bipole setup. That's my opinion, and there are MANY here who disagree


A lot of what will work for you depends on room size and placement and program material. So you know anyone that has dipoles you could borrow? Seriously, it will be worth the hassle to compare and see what you like best.

Whilte it is true that "more than just ambience is sent to the surrounds," it's still 90% ambience... any panning effect, if not done just so, becomes distracting.... that's why dipoles are still recommended for the surrounds...
 

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I would have normally recommend monopole speakers for the side or rear surrounds because that is what Dolby Digital masters for. But when the placement conditions are less than optimal, and in this case very close to the listener, very directional speakers directed at the listener's ears would be distracting....therefore the dipoles.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_vanmeter /forum/post/16942756


I would have normally recommend monopole speakers for the side or rear surrounds because that is what Dolby Digital masters for. But when the placement conditions are less than optimal, and in this case very close to the listener, very directional speakers directed at the listener's ears would be distracting....therefore the dipoles.

Can't argue with that!


FWIW, my room is a just a few feet wider, and while I can localize the monopole surrounds at times, it doesn't bug me. However, I wasn't into surround sound until a few years ago, so I don't have a prior experience with mostly ambient surround tracks. I suspect personal preference plays a part.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by amicusterrae /forum/post/16941991


I disagree. This was definitely the case in the days of Dolby Surround and Prologic, but now, more than just ambience is sent to the surrounds. A bullet or arrow, for example, just doesn't pan across properly in a dipole/bipole setup. That's my opinion, and there are MANY here who disagree


A lot of what will work for you depends on room size and placement and program material. So you know anyone that has dipoles you could borrow? Seriously, it will be worth the hassle to compare and see what you like best.

Agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by glaufman /forum/post/16942594


Whilte it is true that "more than just ambience is sent to the surrounds," it's still 90% ambience... any panning effect, if not done just so, becomes distracting.... that's why dipoles are still recommended for the surrounds...

Disagree. Di-poles-you either love 'em or hate 'em. I hate 'em, well not really, but I won't use them
. And not everybody recommends them. With surround being discrete, there is no reason to "smear" the sound with di-poles. True, in some circumstances they may work better, but not all.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by m_vanmeter /forum/post/16942756


I would have normally recommend monopole speakers for the side or rear surrounds because that is what Dolby Digital masters for. But when the placement conditions are less than optimal, and in this case very close to the listener, very directional speakers directed at the listener's ears would be distracting....therefore the dipoles.

I go by THX... though I HAVE always found it troubling that Dolby and THX disagree on this... but even Dolby says those locations are for ambience...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Easyaspie /forum/post/16943286


With surround being discrete, there is no reason to "smear" the sound with di-poles.

Disagree... the discrete nature of the surrounds is a much better way of coding the information for different locations, but has little to nothing to do with how to best present the information. The idea is to create a diffuse sound field, such as might be the noise from the crowd at the party, you want to be able to tell people are talking all around you, but you don't want it to distract you from the one person you're conversing with, or what's happening on screen. I agree that depending on the constraints of the setup, dipoles aren't always the best means to that end.

I happen to be one that wants to be immersed in the story, the experience, I don't want my attention diverted ... such is the THX philosophy...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Unfortunately I do not know anyone with dipoles that I could borrow. I don't know that I've ever heard a surround system that utilizes but I would be willing to give it a shot. One area where I believe I wouldn't like the dipoles would be if I'm listening to music, but I could be wrong on this. Anyone have suggestions on a specific dipole speaker, I was thinking PSB B25's for monopoles. I would also take suggestions on setting the room up differently, this is all "theory" until the short sale goes through (not holding my breath).
 

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Well... taking a step back and looking at your diagram again, therefore stepping out of the fighting about monopole vs dipole fight, lends clarity to the mind...

It seems you're talking about 5.1. In your current configuration, there doesn't seem to be a good place to put a dipole on the left side. In this case, you could try the dipoles behind and above the listening position. Alternatively, you COULD use direct (monopoles) behind and above the listening position, pointed at each other, not at the listener...

As for alternative room layouts, take a look at putting the display on the wall at the bottom of your pic... that would give you side walls on which to mount side surrounds, AND back walls to mount rear surrounds...and you would just need blackout or at least room-darkening shades over the window...

Leave yourself open to alternative subwoofer placements for now...
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
In the setup I show above I was planning on putting the dipoles on stands, is this not a good idea?


What do you guys think about this setup?


I like it because it seems the sweet spot (middle seat of the horizontal couch) is about ideal. Where would you want two monopoles facing? (At the sweet spot or maybe a little forward or aft?)


I don't like it because the other couch doesn't look like it is a very good spot.
 

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Well, what I like about it:

1) You can place the surround speakers optimally

2) It gives you opportunity to do that for either a 5.1 system or a future upgrade to a 7.1 system

What I don't like:

1) Secound couch is not in a very good location for sound at all

2) Sub locations are probably less than ideal for smooth response


As for putting surrounds on stands, not a problem, except you want surrounds above the listening position. In the placements you've depicted, dipoles would be best... if going monopole, place them behind the couch (closer to the top of the page) but still aiming across at each other...
 

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In the original layout, re: dipoles on stands, that's still ok fi they're up high, but ideally dipoles would be even with the couch, with their null aimed at the couch, as opposed to being slightly behind... if they have to be slightly behind, may be better to go all the way behind, in which case best to aim them across at each other, not at or in front of the listener...
 
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