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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Kind of a noob question, but I did a search for similar problems but couldn't come to a definite conclusion.


I have a Yamaha RX-V463 mated with a Polk Audio RM6880 5.1 speaker package. I double checked my polarity and everything was hooked up ++ and --. I ran the auto setup on the Yamaha and it stated that some of the speakers are out of phase. I can't remember initially which speakers were out of phase, but I did switch the + and - on them. I ran it again and again, others were out of phase.


After doing this a few times, my receiver now says everything is wired correctly. However, I have my L, R, and center channel hooked up with opposite polarity.


My question: should I leave it so that the receiver says everything is correct or should I keep everything ++ and -- regardless of what the auto setup does?
 

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Did you double check your wiring coming out from the receiver as well as from the speakers?
 

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The only thing I can think of is that the speaker that it is saying is out of phase is in a place where the sound is actually completely out of phase because of room acoustics. To troubleshoot take the speaker that is says is out of phase and place it on top or by of one of the other speakers that is in phase. If it then says that it's ok then you know it is a room acoustics issue. Then if your speakers are that badly out of phase due to room acoustics that it fools the receiver then you need to seriously think about your current setup and move things around a lot more.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Audio /forum/post/15439305


The only thing I can think of is that the speaker that it is saying is out of phase is in a place where the sound is actually completely out of phase because of room acoustics. To troubleshoot take the speaker that is says is out of phase and place it on top or by of one of the other speakers that is in phase. If it then says that it's ok then you know it is a room acoustics issue. Then if your speakers are that badly out of phase due to room acoustics that it fools the receiver then you need to seriously think about your current setup and move things around a lot more.

I also experienced this from my YPAO... I had 1 or 2 report as OOP, so I altered the wiring to accommodate. What you say makes perfect sense to me now - I previously thought the AVR could sense polarity electronically via the resistance or something, but if its' due to the YPAO pick up mic I see how bad acoustics could give a false signal.


So my question is this; If the mic picked up OOP and I re phased them have I disrupted staging (with regards to the relationship between phase, speaker position and listening position)? I think my issue was in my 2 surrounds, which I cannot move, so am I better to wire them correctly and disregard the YPAOs suggestion, or leave them OOP but wired in phase correctly?
 

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Quote:
So my question is this; If the mic picked up OOP and I re phased them have I disrupted staging (with regards to the relationship between phase, speaker position and listening position)? I think my issue was in my 2 surrounds, which I cannot move, so am I better to wire them correctly and disregard the YPAOs suggestion, or leave them OOP but wired in phase correctly?

It's hard to say because I'm not there listening to it. What I would do is put some music in and examine how it sounds in Prologic II. When speakers are that far out of phase they suck all kinds of bass from the system. Try it with the wires connected correctly and then incorrectly and listen to what it sounds like. I have YPAO too for I have a Yamaha RX-V659. My first guess would be to follow the receiver's recommendations. My receiver is not accurate in it's adjustments but the phase really has to be far out for the receiver to notice. If you have ignored the Yamaha and didn't do what it told you it still probably sounded at least passable if you never listen to music with all channels. If you just watch movies even with the speakers being out of phase, surround channels don't produce that much bass in the first place plus if your crossover is set high like 100Hz and over then your sub is doing most of the bass anyway. At best there would be a cancellation gap at the crossover point between the surrounds and subwoofer. In order for a speaker to cancel out the another is if they are playing somewhat of the same thing. This might not happen much in a DD or DTS movie, but will happen a lot with music in Prologic II. Music tells all. Again to make sure listen to it both ways, but I'm bankin' on the Yamaha being right.
 

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There are two types of phase: absolute and relative.


Having everything in absolute phase means all your + and - are hooked up right.


However, this does not mean it is all in relative phase at your listening position.


If speakers are different distances away and boundaries for each speaker are different distances away, then certain frequencies can be out of relative phase at the listening position. The receiver most likely uses lower frequencies to test phase, as it is much easier to check that way. Room boundaries could cause cancellation because the signals are not in relative phase with eachother when they reach the listening position.


The receiver is not giving you a "false reading." It is telling you they are out of relative phase at the listening position at the frequencies which are important for them to be in relative phase at. I'd say do what it says.


You learn about this a lot when dealing with car and pro audio because of the imperfect environments
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Audio /forum/post/15436864


Did you double check your wiring coming out from the receiver as well as from the speakers?

I did double check. They seem right, but what I can't verify easily is what is behind the speaker wall plates. I soldered the wire to the wall plate and I'm fairly certain I did it right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Audio /forum/post/15439305


The only thing I can think of is that the speaker that it is saying is out of phase is in a place where the sound is actually completely out of phase because of room acoustics. To troubleshoot take the speaker that is says is out of phase and place it on top or by of one of the other speakers that is in phase. If it then says that it's ok then you know it is a room acoustics issue. Then if your speakers are that badly out of phase due to room acoustics that it fools the receiver then you need to seriously think about your current setup and move things around a lot more.

This is probably the reason. It would be hard to relocate speakers as they're mounted on the walls and I wired the home while it was being built. I could move it, but probably not worth the hassle. I left the settings with YPAO being happy re: phase, and I re-adjusted the distances to make it more accurate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Audio /forum/post/15443154


It's hard to say because I'm not there listening to it. What I would do is put some music in and examine how it sounds in Prologic II. When speakers are that far out of phase they suck all kinds of bass from the system. Try it with the wires connected correctly and then incorrectly and listen to what it sounds like. I have YPAO too for I have a Yamaha RX-V659. My first guess would be to follow the receiver's recommendations. My receiver is not accurate in it's adjustments but the phase really has to be far out for the receiver to notice. If you have ignored the Yamaha and didn't do what it told you it still probably sounded at least passable if you never listen to music with all channels. If you just watch movies even with the speakers being out of phase, surround channels don't produce that much bass in the first place plus if your crossover is set high like 100Hz and over then your sub is doing most of the bass anyway. At best there would be a cancellation gap at the crossover point between the surrounds and subwoofer. In order for a speaker to cancel out the another is if they are playing somewhat of the same thing. This might not happen much in a DD or DTS movie, but will happen a lot with music in Prologic II. Music tells all. Again to make sure listen to it both ways, but I'm bankin' on the Yamaha being right.

I'm going to try and test it with the above as well. So far it sounds good keeping it the Yamaha way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by XanderMoser /forum/post/15443509


There are two types of phase: absolute and relative.


Having everything in absolute phase means all your + and - are hooked up right.


However, this does not mean it is all in relative phase at your listening position.


If speakers are different distances away and boundaries for each speaker are different distances away, then certain frequencies can be out of relative phase at the listening position. The receiver most likely uses lower frequencies to test phase, as it is much easier to check that way. Room boundaries could cause cancellation because the signals are not in relative phase with eachother when they reach the listening position.


The receiver is not giving you a "false reading." It is telling you they are out of relative phase at the listening position at the frequencies which are important for them to be in relative phase at. I'd say do what it says.


You learn about this a lot when dealing with car and pro audio because of the imperfect environments

Thanks, doing what it says as well. You got me wondering however. I raised the microphone to ear level by putting it on a metal table. Could this have negatively effected the incoming soundwaves from the speakers?


Thanks guys.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickee /forum/post/15443644




Thanks, doing what it says as well. You got me wondering however. I raised the microphone to ear level by putting it on a metal table. Could this have negatively effected the incoming soundwaves from the speakers?


Thanks guys.

Yes, it could potentially have an effect.


At least place a pillow between the mic and table to prevent nasty reflections that the system will EQ out, ruining your FR


Better yet, hold it there if you can.
 

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I just signed up today to ask this question because even though I love this reciever with a passion something has been bothering me. When I run the auto setup the distances it gives for my speakers are way off. Is this normal? Oh and is the microphone really accurate or should I find another way to calibrate my speakers? Btw I really don't know much about this stuff but would greatly appreciate the help.
 

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Yamaha YPAO mic setup

I got the Costco receiver and did the same YPAO mic setup. It also told me the speaker wire polarity could be reversed on my front 3 speakers (rear speakers were fine). I switched them and now it says 4 of the 5 speakers could be reversed. Pretty annoying! I have ceiling built-in speakers so it's not easy to go up and confirm they are wired correctly.

I hope someone is correct in saying that it could have to do with acoustics in the room. But then Yamaha should just say that.
 

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Some multi-driver speakers have the tweeter driver polarity reversed to keep phase coherency between all the drivers in the cabinet. These types of speakers will trigger this warning.

Double check all the wiring to ensure your speakers are wired as they should be - -, + +, and carry on as normal.
 

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I got the Costco receiver and did the same YPAO mic setup. It also told me the speaker wire polarity could be reversed on my front 3 speakers (rear speakers were fine). I switched them and now it says 4 of the 5 speakers could be reversed. Pretty annoying! I have ceiling built-in speakers so it's not easy to go up and confirm they are wired correctly.



I hope someone is correct in saying that it could have to do with acoustics in the room. But then Yamaha should just say that.
This is a nine year old thread you’ve revived (if Tapatalk is displaying it properly; it’s pretty buggy lately), feel free to find the “official Yamaha owners thread” in the Receivers section of hte forum, for the model you bought, and seek further assistance there. ;)
 
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