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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi I am looking at buying some 5.1 speakers for my first Home theatre set up but dont have alot of cash (about $500 US), I live in New Zealand so some of the eletronic shops I see ppl refering to won't be available to me. I have seen a couple of sets for sale but am not sure of what spec's I need. so am looking for some advise.


I have tried doing some research on them but as they are not the last and greatest there is not alot out there, of if it is it is hard to track down.


The spec's for the speakers I have been looking at are below, any advise would be appreciated thanks.

Denon SC T905H (Front 6 ohm Max input 100w Freq range 20Hz-20Khz sensitivity 89 db[not sure how import this is?] ),


SC A905H (Surround 6 ohm Max input 50w max ouput 100w Freq range 60Hz-20Khz sensitivity 89 db ), SC C905H (centre same spec's as surround),


DSW-65 (sub) (50Hz-200Hz, 4 ohms 100watt.


I am not sure if the 6 Ohm rating would be an issue or not for a reciever as dont really understand how it all works, but have read lower ohms rating can heat up receiver?

Yamaha 225 series

Fronts & Rears:

Model # NSM-225

Magnetic Shielding

65Hz - 60KHz

6 Ohms

120 Watts Max (40w Rms)


Centre:

Model # NSC-225

Magnetic Shielding

65 Hz - 50KHz

6 Ohms

120 Watts Max (40w Rms)


Subwoofer:

Model # YST-SW225

Dynamic Power 150 Watts

Freq Response 28Hz - 200Hz

Hi Cut Filter 40Hz - 140 Hz

Driver: 8".

Infinity Beta HCS

Satellite

Frequency Response (3dB) 64Hz - 40kHz(- 6dB)

Rec. Power Amplifier Range 10 - 100 watts

Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m) 86dB

Nominal Impedance 8

Crossover Frequency 2,800Hz; 24dB/octave

Low-Frequency Driver

N/A

Midrange Driver 100mm CMMDT, magnetically shielded

High-Frequency Driver 19mm CMMDT, magnetically shielded

Dimensions (HxWxD) 618 x 141116 x 734 inch

156 x 372 x 197mm

Weight 13 lb (5.9kg)


Center Channel

Frequency Response (3dB) 70Hz - 40kHz(- 6dB)

Rec. Power Amplifier Range 10 - 100 watts

Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m) 87dB

Nominal Impedance 8

Crossover Frequency 2,800Hz, 24dB/octave

Low-Frequency Driver

N/A

Midrange Driver Dual 100mm CMMDT, magnetically shielded

High-Frequency Driver 19mm CMMDT, magnetically shielded


Subwoofer

Frequency Response (3dB) 35Hz - 150Hz

Amplifier Power Output 100 watts RMS

Sensitivity (2.83V @ 1m)

N/A

Nominal Impedance

N/A

Crossover Frequency 50Hz, 150Hz, 24dB/octave

(continuously variable)

Low-Frequency Driver 200mm CMMDT.


Thank you for read this I know it has been a log post but I wasn't sure how much info was required.


Any suggestions for a reciever would also be welcomed DTS-HD master Audio and Dolby True HD prefered.


Thanks again
 

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You know.... that was an awful lot of typing if you didn't copy and paste. And, it all amounts to absolutely nothing as far as I'm concerned. I've never actually heard a piece of paper or computer monitor with a bunch of specs on them make that first sound. I haven't even seen a way to connect the speaker cables to the spec sheets either.


Do yourself a favor.... listen to both and buy the ones that SOUND the best to YOU and YOUR ears. Forget about the specs and just buy something that YOU enjoy. Regardless of what anyone else thinks about it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by quadriverfalls /forum/post/16843949


You know.... that was an awful lot of typing if you didn't copy and paste. And, it all amounts to absolutely nothing as far as I'm concerned. I've never actually heard a piece of paper or computer monitor with a bunch of specs on them make that first sound. I haven't even seen a way to connect the speaker cables to the spec sheets either.


Do yourself a favor.... listen to both and buy the ones that SOUND the best to YOU and YOUR ears. Forget about the specs and just buy something that YOU enjoy. Regardless of what anyone else thinks about it.

Please don't take this personally, but I don't always understand such advice. For example, I recall standing at Best Buy A/B switching Klipsch, Sony, Bose, Polk, Insignia and some other speakers and although I heard differences I had no clue as to what I was listening for or which speaker is better. There are times a speaker truly sounds great (relative to other speakers), but other times it's like choosing a shade of gray.


Ok, maybe I'm only speaking for myself... I honestly have no idea what I listen for when I listen to speakers. When it comes to listening to instruments, I don't know whether the piano or guitar I'm comparing to is in tune, whether the recording is recorded properly, whether someone modified something, whether the signal is being modified anywhere else, etc.


As a scientist, I feel more at home with spec sheets and facts/figures
. I don't trust my ears, because I'm not trained in the field... however, if there is a guide to learning how to listen I'm all ears



Ugh... sorry, just venting.


Boris
 

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Demo some speakers if you can. Listen to them for a week or so and make an honest assessment of them.


Spec sheets will only give numbers, they don't explain the whole depth of sound to you. To experience that, you must listen to the speaker yourself.


You might find that only the best speakers suit your ears, or conversely some cheap consumer ones are just fine.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///3oris /forum/post/16844209


Please don't take this personally, but I don't always understand such advice. For example, I recall standing at Best Buy A/B switching Klipsch, Sony, Bose, Polk, Insignia and some other speakers and although I heard differences I had no clue as to what I was listening for or which speaker is better. There are times a speaker truly sounds great (relative to other speakers), but other times it's like choosing a shade of gray.


Ok, maybe I'm only speaking for myself... I honestly have no idea what I listen for when I listen to speakers. When it comes to listening to instruments, I don't know whether the piano or guitar I'm comparing to is in tune, whether the recording is recorded properly, whether someone modified something, whether the signal is being modified anywhere else, etc.


As a scientist, I feel more at home with spec sheets and facts/figures
. I don't trust my ears, because I'm not trained in the field... however, if there is a guide to learning how to listen I'm all ears



Ugh... sorry, just venting.


Boris

Boris.... I TOTALLY understand what you are saying. Starting with the spec side of things.... as a scientist, if you do an experiment in a clean room lab where everything is totally controlled ie; temperature, air particulate, relative humidity etc. You then publish those results. Are you going to get the same results doing the experiment on your kitchen table with the kids and dog running around opening and closing the door the furnace going on and off answering a phone call half way through? Most likely not.


The same with manufacturers specs. Were they done in an anaoeic (sp?) chamber like many of the more expensive speakers are often times done? Ok, compare the sound chamber to your own home.... it's vastly different and the speakers will measure quite differently in your own home. Some manufacturers don't even measure the specs. They simply compile the specs of the drivers and how they "should" behave based on their integration, crossover and the cabinet they're in by using a computer model. Same thing.... they will most likely measure (and thus sound different) once they are in your own home.


That exact same argument can be used in auditioning ANYWHERE other than your own home. ESPECIALLY at a place like Best Buy. However, by using reference material (CD's that you are EXTREMELY familiar with) on each audition.... you SHOULD be able to start picking up differences in the speakers you listen to. Some will sound bright on the high end (your ears start to feel uncomfortable or actually hurt on high passages) others will offer crystal clear high ends and others will be veiled or recessed on the high end. Think of a cymbal shimmering on the above comparison.... it's so pronounced it hurts, it's pronounced but you can actually hear and maybe even feel the cymbal moving while it shimmers, or you're aware of the cymbal shimmer, but it's recessed to a point it's off in the background somewhere.


The same thing with other aspects of a speaker.... the mid range (mainly how vocals sound) is it in your face almost unbareable, does it sound live or is it somewhere off in the distance? The bass, does it just go BOOM with no discernable difference as to the actual notes being played or can you hear the bassist's fingers pluck the strings on the walking bass line?


The bottom line.... the more you listen, the more you will start finding specific qualities about sound reproduction that you prefer and that sound good to YOU. Who cares if the piano is in tune or not.... if you like the way it SOUNDS on a particular speaker?


Just food for thought.

 

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If those three are your only choices available I would pick the infinity. I have heard those speakers and they are pretty nice for the money. I wouldn't expect super dynamics or extreme spl or extension from the sub, but its passable as a decent system. I would pick them easily over the others.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by brandonnash /forum/post/16844348


If those three are your only choices available I would pick the infinity. I have heard those speakers and they are pretty nice for the money. I wouldn't expect super dynamics or extreme spl or extension from the sub, but its passable as a decent system. I would pick them easily over the others.

And as there are many folks out there that would agree with you, there are an equal number that would prefer the Klipsch or the Polks or God forbid the Blo$e. Each saying that their choice is very good for the money and would pick them easily over the Infinity's.


So which one is right? They all are but, which is right for the OP or Boris?
 

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This may be his only choices, as he is in new Zealand. If all those you mentioned (klipsch, Polk, etc.) were available in his price range, and more importantly in his area I may choose differently.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thanks for taking the time to reply ppl. I appreciate the different views and opinions expressed. I realise numbers certaintly don't tell the whole picture, but they can help to assess clinically to some degree the level of performance that can be expected.

My apologises in not mentioning an important issue I have, which is I am buying off the Internet, so don't have the luxury of actually being able to listern to them before I buy. So am flying blind in a way, making me more reliant on other peoples opinion and experiences.


Regards
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by quadriverfalls /forum/post/16844300


Boris.... I TOTALLY understand what you are saying.

Quadriverfalls,


Thanks, I appreciate that others understand the frustration
. The points you made are also good, especially when it comes to the importance of the room and how every audition may not be in the same room and all speakers may sound different in our own rooms.

Quote:
Originally Posted by quadriverfalls /forum/post/16844300


However, by using reference material (CD's that you are EXTREMELY familiar with) on each audition.... you SHOULD be able to start picking up differences in the speakers you listen to. Some will sound bright on the high end (your ears start to feel uncomfortable or actually hurt on high passages) others will offer crystal clear high ends and others will be veiled or recessed on the high end. Think of a cymbal shimmering on the above comparison.... it's so pronounced it hurts, it's pronounced but you can actually hear and maybe even feel the cymbal moving while it shimmers, or you're aware of the cymbal shimmer, but it's recessed to a point it's off in the background somewhere.


The same thing with other aspects of a speaker.... the mid range (mainly how vocals sound) is it in your face almost unbareable, does it sound live or is it somewhere off in the distance? The bass, does it just go BOOM with no discernable difference as to the actual notes being played or can you hear the bassist's fingers pluck the strings on the walking bass line?


The bottom line.... the more you listen, the more you will start finding specific qualities about sound reproduction that you prefer and that sound good to YOU. Who cares if the piano is in tune or not.... if you like the way it SOUNDS on a particular speaker?


Just food for thought.


Thanks for the food, all good points, however some of the thing you mentioned are hard to do. For example, getting reference material... the only music I listen to is through my headphones or through my car stereo. So even if I'm well familiar with something, how do I know that I'm not already 'trained' by those sources to listen for something I shouldn't?


I can definitely hear when the bass sounds "boomy" (distortion) and the cymbal shimmers and hurts my ears, I sort of have an idea of when a fe/male voice doesn't sound as it should, but that's about it. However, as long as the volumes aren't too high, the criteria above can be met with a clock radio.


Oh, one more thing I don't like, is I'll read a review for a speaker (and it's rare you hear anyone say anything bad about a speaker) and the reviewer will always say that in this price range it's a steal. I was reading about the Infinity Primus P162 yesterday and I read the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by http://www.stereophile.com/standloudspeakers/1007inf/ /forum/post/0


I was thinking this again as I listened to the Infinity Primus P162 loudspeaker, which costs $298/pair. I'm not saying that the P162s were nearly as good as any of the +$50,000/pair speakers I heard at HE2007, but the sonic realism I was hearing with all forms of music at multiple volume levels was so realistic and lifelike, and so much better than it had any right to sound at the price, that I began to envision audiophiles wondering: "Should I buy the $50,000/pair speakers, or should I buy my wife a new Mercedes for her birthday and get the Infinity Primus P162s instead?"

So now we have $300 speakers being compared to a $50k+ offering. So I hate it when people say you should buy speakers in your 'price range.' What if you don't have a price range? If the best speakers are $500, then I'll buy those and if they're $5,000 then I'll buy those. I mean if I can spend $300 on speakers which may be compared to something 100 times the price, then what's the point of spending $3000 on speakers? Etc.


There should be a class or something on this, where someone who understands audio and is well trained can sit there with you and point out all of this. I'd pay money to get rid of this confusion/frustration.


Thanks again for the response, quadriverfalls, I may seem recalcitrant, but I just need someone to drill this into me and it'll take time to sink in.


Sorry for going OT and hijacking the thread
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ///3oris /forum/post/16846155


Quadriverfalls,


Thanks, I appreciate that others understand the frustration
. The points you made are also good, especially when it comes to the importance of the room and how every audition may not be in the same room and all speakers may sound different in our own rooms.


Thanks for the food, all good points, however some of the thing you mentioned are hard to do. For example, getting reference material... the only music I listen to is through my headphones or through my car stereo. So even if I'm well familiar with something, how do I know that I'm not already 'trained' by those sources to listen for something I shouldn't?

Do you have any CD's at home that you listen to often? You're absolutely right in that things through headphones and the small acoustic sound environment of a car are vastly different than listening in room. Quite difficult to compare the two (or three). Bass for example will be much MUCH different in those situations.


I can definitely hear when the bass sounds "boomy" (distortion) and the cymbal shimmers and hurts my ears, I sort of have an idea of when a fe/male voice doesn't sound as it should, but that's about it. However, as long as the volumes aren't too high, the criteria above can be met with a clock radio.

Now here, I'm going to disagree. Nearly ANY speaker (and yes I'll say it, even BLO$E) will sound better than a clock radio even at whisper quiet volumes.


Oh, one more thing I don't like, is I'll read a review for a speaker (and it's rare you hear anyone say anything bad about a speaker) and the reviewer will always say that in this price range it's a steal. I was reading about the Infinity Primus P162 yesterday and I read the following:


So now we have $300 speakers being compared to a $50k+ offering. So I hate it when people say you should buy speakers in your 'price range.' What if you don't have a price range? If the best speakers are $500, then I'll buy those and if they're $5,000 then I'll buy those. I mean if I can spend $300 on speakers which may be compared to something 100 times the price, then what's the point of spending $3000 on speakers? Etc.

Well, remember that reviews in publications are generally fueled by advertising dollars. You really do need to take them with a grain (no, maybe a BOLDER) of salt. Reviews by individuals can also be skewed by personal bias. For example, all of us WANT to think we got the best deal on whatever it is we buy. Whether it be a car, lawn mower or living room carpet. We want the biggest bang for the buck we can get. It's human nature. Once we got that incredible "deal" we subconsciously WANT it to be the best at the price we paid.... even if maybe it isn't.


There should be a class or something on this, where someone who understands audio and is well trained can sit there with you and point out all of this. I'd pay money to get rid of this confusion/frustration.

Well, you can read as much as possible and learn everything possible about the technical side of this hobby. But, until you actually put what you've learned into practice by listening, listening and listening some more, you'll never really "learn" anything and a clock radio will suffice. I don't mean any offense, but until you actually start to listen, it's just too darned hard to put what you've read and learned into perspective.

The thing about the way speakers "sound" is it's so darned subjective. Quite unlike say; Calculus which is definitive. So even though you may learn all there is to know about speakers and their technical merits, you still won't know which ones sound the best to you until you actually listen to some. What makes it even more problematic, is the fact that we all hear things differently. So even if the most experienced audiophie in the world tells you that a speaker is very bright (that painful high end treble), you may not process 10K KHz - 20K KHz in the same way. The very same speaker that makes his ears bleed, may sound crisp and detailed to you. Who is right? Well, neither AND both at the same time depending on who you're talking to.


Thanks again for the response, quadriverfalls, I may seem recalcitrant, but I just need someone to drill this into me and it'll take time to sink in.

No worries Boris.... thats what we're all here for.


Sorry for going OT and hijacking the thread

.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Well finally settled on a set of Wharfedales nine series, havent tried them out at home yet, but anything must be better than my Pansonic HTB.


Thanks for the interest. My next quest will probabley be trying to sort the AV reciever out....lol.
 
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