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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know there's a bunch of info on this topic but I'm looking for something fresh...because man oh man have I got this upgrade bug bad.


Within the last month, I've purchased a new XGA Projector two screens and an SVS 20-39.


I'm thinking new speakers now. What I am currently using are the old jbls that I used in high-school almost 20 years ago.


I've read a lot of good thing about a lot of different speakers and have no idea where to start. I gone to local audio stores to audition speakers but they never seem to affect me right in the stores...too many people and doopey salesdudes.


I've been thinking about the Diva 2.1's and C3 but I've also thought about the HTD III's. Question: Do I want dipoles for surrounds on a DD/DTS 6.1 system? I'm very out of the loop in this area. I've always thought dipoles were better for old DPL set ups.


Price isn't really an issue just looking for something decent. Best bang for the buck is always a hit with me. I expect a lot of "whatever sounds best to you" is best but that's not the case with me as I rarely watch movies alone and when I listen to "My" music I almost always wear my Sennheiser headphones. What a good average? What will work for 90% DVD and 10% party music covering many genres? What works well with my new sub? Which btw almost made me soil myself when I first turned it on. :eek:


Thanks for all input.



chris
 

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chris,


I know you say price isn't really an issue... but it really has to be. The problem is that you can spend $10k on great speakers, but does that scare you? (It sure scares me ;) )


For surround, I prefer bipoles -- especially if you plan on having multiple people in your theater at a time. Some argue that because DD and DTS are discrete formats, they need very positionally-accurate speakers (monopoles) for the proper effect. In reality, the surround channes tend to have (ahem) surround info that is ambient as well as a few discrete effects. With the effects it's ok if you hear the explosion "over there" instead of "right there" since you have no visual reference to tell you exactly where it's supposed to be coming from.


When using monopole surrounds in a HT, you also have to worry about the precedence effect, which states that if you have the same sound coming from two speakers (such as surround ambience) your brain will automatically hear it as coming from the closer speaker, ruining the ambient effect. This isn't a big issue in very large rooms (like a movie theater), but in a smaller HT environment it can be a big deal.


as a point of reference, I currently have surrounds which can be dipoles or bipoles, and I have tested monopole surrounds. I have found bipoles to be better than either of the others because it presents a good compromise between ambience and directionality. Dipole mode sounded very diffuse and lacked some frequency response, while the monopoles were just too "right there" for my tastes and my 15x15 room.


jake
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by jakehall
chris,


I know you say price isn't really an issue... but it really has to be. The problem is that you can spend $10k on great speakers, but does that scare you? (It sure scares me ;) )



jake
$10K doesn't scare me. If that's what they cost then so be it. Of course I don't want to have to spend $10K if there is something nearly as good for $100, $1000, $2000, $5000 etc... I don't need nor want the best that money can buy I just want something that sounds good to most people. Am I an audiophile? Yes and no...I do have discriminating tastes when it comes to music but to put it in terms of cognac. Why spend $1200 on a bottle of St. Louicognac when I get get Remy XO for $128 or even vsop for for $20 when the general audience won't know or care about the difference?


Just looking for something good and if that happens to be a set of Martin Logans for $30K or Divas for $1500 or HTD for $500 then so be it.


I bought the SVS 20-39 because it sounded great nevermind that it cost under $500 or that I could have paid three times more for the same performance. Do I make any sense?



Thanks,


Chris
 

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Chris,


I'll be the Diva advocate for this hearing :)


I have the 6.1/2.1/C3/dual 20-39's set up and absolutely love it. Not having heard the other speakers you mentioned, I can't be an impartial judge, but all I can say is that I really like the Diva's. See if someone in your area can do a demo. I've done several and everyone has left wanting to buy them :)


Regarding my choice of using the 2.1's as rears; my room would not allow proper placement of the R3's, so I went with the 2.1's. They are one great sounding speaker. For $200 a piece, they can't be beat (imo). I assume you have read all 916 posts of the Diva Super-Thread? :)


Sean
 

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Chris,


Allow me to put in a word for Mirage's OM series speakers. From what you describe, I think these might be a very nice fit for your situation. They are an "omnipolar" design (same as bipolar mostly -- similar to Martin Logan or other dipoles but they avoid some of the weaknesses) that present a large soundstage which works well for people in different spots. If you typically have a few people watching your HT, they would be a good way to go. The OM-5 retails for about $3500 I think, with the OM-7 around $2200 and other models below that. The finish and styling is pretty nice, too. The OM-R2 surrounds are a modified bipolar surround (the midrange faces outward, with tweeters on the forward & back facing surfaces), which as someone else noted is a nice compromise between the extreme ambience of a dipole and the directionality of a monopole. The OM-C2 center is pretty good (the lesser OM-C3 is to be avoided from what I hear), though a little on the larger side so you may need a stand for it.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Mojodeli
I know there's a bunch of info on this topic but I'm looking for something fresh...because man oh man have I got this upgrade bug bad.


Within the last month, I've purchased a new XGA Projector two screens and an SVS 20-39.


I'm thinking new speakers now. What I am currently using are the old jbls that I used in high-school almost 20 years ago.


I've read a lot of good thing about a lot of different speakers and have no idea where to start. I gone to local audio stores to audition speakers but they never seem to affect me right in the stores...too many people and doopey salesdudes.


I've been thinking about the Diva 2.1's and C3 but I've also thought about the HTD III's. Question: Do I want dipoles for surrounds on a DD/DTS 6.1 system? I'm very out of the loop in this area. I've always thought dipoles were better for old DPL set ups.


Price isn't really an issue just looking for something decent. Best bang for the buck is always a hit with me. I expect a lot of "whatever sounds best to you" is best but that's not the case with me as I rarely watch movies alone and when I listen to "My" music I almost always wear my Sennheiser headphones. What a good average? What will work for 90% DVD and 10% party music covering many genres? What works well with my new sub? Which btw almost made me soil myself when I first turned it on. :eek:


Thanks for all input.



chris
Hi Chris,


Thanks for the message. Indeed, the SVS warrants an upgrade! This is a great sub, and as Sean demonstrates above, several of our Diva customers are using this sub in their systems with truly stunning results. In fact, there's been such talk of how well these components mate on these (and other) forums, that I'm in the process of seeing if I can get my hands on one personally to audition in our listening room.


In terms of your system choice, this decision really depends on several factors, including: speaker placement, performance standards, listening preferences (HT vs. Music), and last, but definitely not least, $$$$$.


Both Mirage and Martin Logan make wonderful speakers that are great for both HT and music. If price truly is no issue, you owe it to yourself to give these an audition. However, if you're looking for something within this performance category for FAR less money (50%), you should really give the Diva's a shot. As Sean explained in his post, there are several Diva owners throughout the U.S. that are doing us a HUGE courtesy and actually opening the doors to their listening rooms for prospective Diva owners like yourself. In fact, Sean has even allowed people to bring another speaker with them to do side by side A/B comparisons (again, a BIG thanks to you Sean!). Simply post a message in the following thread for someone in your area willing to audition their speakers, and I'm sure you'll find someone within a day or two: Diva Thread


The fact is, the Diva's have broken nearly every price/performance standard in the audio industry by offering unbeatable "reference-class" performance at "mid-fi" prices. The 6.1/C3/R3 system offers a truly seamless surround environment that is also VERY happy in the music domain as well. Just to give you a small bit of further information per jakehall's post, the Diva R3 is in fact a Quasi Bipole/Dipole design. This speaker features dual 6.5" woofers firing at 90 degrees (each at a 45 degree angle) as opposed to a full 180 degrees. This makes them much easier to place in an HT system and allows for perfect dispersion of ambient effects mixed into all DD and DTS 5.1, 6.1, and 7.1 channel soundtracks.


In addition, this speaker gives you the best of both worlds in the dipole/bipole domain due to the following configuration: (1) the tweeters in the R3 are wired out of phase which produces a "null" at the listening position. This makes the high frequencies very difficult to localize and gives you the same enormous surround field you'll find in theaters. (2) However, the woofers in the R3 are wired IN phase. This gives the R3 far more bass extension and negates the cancellation effect found in true dipolar designs.


Given your preference for "party" music, the 6.1 is the ideal choice for your front speaker. Using dual 8" bass woofers, this speaker is truly full-range, and will allow you to turn off your subwoofer when listening to 2-channel music in this application.


As for a comparison of the Diva and the HTD III, have you seen the Diva review on www.cheaphometheater.com? If not, take a look. The HTD III was by far their favorite HT speaker...that is, until they got their hands on the Diva package!


Thanks again for the inquiry, Chris. If you have any specific questions regarding this post, please feel free to e-mail me directly, place another post, or give me a call at any time!


Kindest regards,


Steve Ozmai
[email protected]**********

877-543-7500 x 300
 

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When I started looking for replacements for my Energy Take 5 system a little over a year ago (before the whole Diva/nOrh direct-sales fad got started -- at the time, the speaker rage was the Monitor Audio Silver 5) I auditioned various speakers in a different price ranges (including DefTech, Energy, B&W, Martin Logan, Mirage, etc. etc.). No matter how many speakers I listened to, I kept coming back to the same conclusion:


> $1500/pair = Joseph Audio Signature 25


I listened to the aforementioned speakers in various listening environments, and kept choosing them over and over. As my budget was in the lower group, I opted for the Paradigm Reference Studio/60 v2 and never looked back.


Unfortunately, I then realized how horrible the acoustics of my room were, and had to set out fixing that...but that's another story.


-A.
 

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Hi Chris,


Sound like you're building a truly sensational theater there.


I would be the last person to suggest you shouldn't consider the Diva series of speakers. With the 30 day money back guarantee and the huge following they have on this forum they MUST be in your list of systems to hear. To date I've not heard them but if they are half as good as everyone says they are then there must be a lot of very worried UK speaker manufacturers right now. I'm yet to hear someone who's not liked them!


I will say that I'm a Martin Logan fan myself. I have a pair of SL-3's up front with a pair of Aerius I's due for delivery on Friday for surround duties to be followed in the new year by at least a Logos and hopefully a Theater center channel. As you've given no details of room size I'll take a shot with a system I know will blow minds (and wallets). If you're in the market to buy new an Ascent on the front pair with Aeon's for real channel and a Theater for center channel will be incredibly tough to beat. Now I've used the SL-3's on my front channels I would have a tough time going to anything else in my main listening room. I absolutely love them. Once you get used to the speed, imaging, soundstage and the detail in movie soundtracks there really is no going back.


It sound like utopia but there is a big downside. These babies need a lot of space (I'm running 20ft by 12.5ft with 7.5ft ceiling) and I'm on the small side for the array I'm planning. These speakers really need some room to breathe. You also need some SERIOUS amplification to get these babies singing. I'm using a pair of Bryston 7B-ST's on my SL-3's and I'll use something like a 4B-ST or 3B-ST for my Aerius I's. You need plenty of quality power for these speakers otherwise you'll just not hear what they can really do.


Very best of luck with your decision and please keep us posted on this forum as to what you've decided to buy.


Regards and best wishes,


Dave
 

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I can't let you search for speakers without throwing my two favorites in the mix. B&W and Aerial, both are great and will fill any room with perfect sound if fed with the correct electronics. I chose Aerial LR5s and CC5 and don't think they can be beat in the l0k price range. If you are going to the CES in January Aerial will be showing the new 20t which looks to be the final word in speakers. It will list for 18k if that is acceptable. The construction of the Aerials is second to none and if given enough power you will find yourself closing your eyes occasionally and just smiling:)


I'll close in saying the search for your perfect sound is a fun one. Take your time and enjoy it.


Ken


PS If you take the time to shop you can find Aerial at attractive pricing.
 

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Fit and finish wise, the Divas win hands down over the HTDs.


I have not had them both side by side in my reference system, so I cannot give a clear opinion on sonic superiority of one over the other.


One thing about the Divas, when I had the 5.1s in Stacey's house for the benchmark event listening sessions, the tweeters really started out bright and harsh. If you end up with Divas, you'll need to give them a little time to get past this phase. This is fairly normal BTW, so don't think this is a slam -- just a reminder to be patient.


The HTDs (Level 3) were much smoother out of the box. More to be said when I write the review up.


Now, if we're talking a much more expensive system, then I'm going to say "stay direct", and take a look at the gorgeous offerings from Soundline Audio .


I use their SL-2 and SL6-6 Center in my reference system, and will be upgrading the surrounds to another speaker in their line sometime in 2002.


You won't read a lot of reviews on Soundlines speakers, but they are seriously good. I might have done the only "magazine" review on one of their products to date.


So, there you go. There's some options for you.


Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Wow! Thanks for all of your input. I have decided on the Bose acoustimass 7.1 system.... :)



My room is 12x24.


At this point I am seriously considering the Divas. I like the Martin Logan but they are too big and look funny (according to my wife).


With my SVS sub do I want to go with the 6.1 set or the smaller 2.1 set?


As for disposable money - I recently met a bonus clause in one of my business contracts that netted me just under $91K - That's after I split the full bonus with my wife. I can do anything I want with my portion but that does not mean I want to spend it all or be frivilous about it. My spending philosophy is to spend what I need to and not buy the most expensive just because I can.


Thanks again for all of your help.



Chris
 

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Mojo,


I'd go with the 6.1s if budget isn't a constraint, as they can be run without subwoofer in a stereo context.


And if you really want to go all out, 6.1s all around would be a very nice setup indeed.


Regards,
 

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If cost is no object (hehe) and you have plenty of space, go with (5) bp2000TL's...I guarantee that you will be totally blown away by this setup. I do not think you could do much better than this. Cross the bp2000TL's at around 40Hz, let the external subs take over from there, and be prepared to drool! If space is a concern, then consider the bp2000TL's for main channels, clr3000 or PowerMonitor 900 for center, and bpvx or PowerMonitors for the rear.


Good luck!
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by bob23_60201
If cost is no object (hehe) and you have plenty of space, go with (5) bp2000TL's...I guarantee that you will be totally blown away by this setup. I do not think you could do much better than this. Cross the bp2000TL's at around 40Hz, let the external subs take over from there, and be prepared to drool! If space is a concern, then consider the bp2000TL's for main channels, clr3000 or PowerMonitor 900 for center, and bpvx or PowerMonitors for the rear.


Good luck!
My point was that I don't need to be blown away and I don't want to spend a ton of dough unless I have too. For 3K sounds like the Diva 6.1's are the way to go. I'm only looking for what will sound great to most.
 

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Oh ok...well then you should consider (2) bp2000TL's, (1) clr 2000, (2) bpx/bpvx's...this should come to around 3k street price...trust me, you should love it!


Don't get me wrong...I am sure that the 6.1's are nice speakers...but can they match the 2000TL's with respect to dynamics, depth, and size of soundstage? Probably not. But to get the most out of the DT's, make sure to give them 1-3 feet for the rear drivers to fire, 5-10 feet in between the speakers, a few feet of space to the sides of the speakers for the subs to fire (probably want subs to fire outward), and use a slight toe in. Also keep the speakers slightly in front of any tv, and make sure that the front and rear tweeters are not too close to a wall. What amplification will you be using?
 

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So Bob, in all your enthusiasm for the Def Techs, you haven't actually heard the Divas yet, is that correct?


If this is the case, how are you so sure the Def Techs outperform the Divas?


Regards,
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
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Originally posted by bob23_60201
Oh ok...well then you should consider (2) bp2000TL's, (1) clr 2000, (2) bpx/bpvx's...this should come to around 3k street price...trust me, you should love it!


Don't get me wrong...I am sure that the 6.1's are nice speakers...but can they match the 2000TL's with respect to dynamics, depth, and size of soundstage? Probably not. But to get the most out of the DT's, make sure to give them 1-3 feet for the rear drivers to fire, 5-10 feet in between the speakers, a few feet of space to the sides of the speakers for the subs to fire (probably want subs to fire outward), and use a slight toe in. Also keep the speakers slightly in front of any tv, and make sure that the front and rear tweeters are not too close to a wall. What amplification will you be using?
Truth is I don't know #^$% about speakers which was the genesis of my original query. As for amplification I have the Yamaha RX-V1000 but I was thinking about relegating that to bedroom duty and purchasing the Denon 5800.


I hoping that will make this upgrade bug go away!!!


Chris
 

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John, if I had some more time I would definitely give you an audition :)


The user mentioned 90%HT...this is what DT's are specifically designed to excel with (even though they happen to be wonderfully musical if you carefully set them up and carefully match the associated equipment). They are a bipolar design and have built in subs...these 2000TL's can handle a ridiculous amount of power, and they can play ridiculously loud without any audible distortion. They just seem so at ease at virtually any volume level. The bipolar design will give you a sense of spaciousness that you will probably not get with a direct radiator in it's price range...which is why I said the 2000TL will probably have the edge in spaciousness and depth of soundstage. The built in 15 inch 500 watt powered sub is why I said the 2000TL will probably have the edge in dynamics. Wire the 2000TL's "full range" in the bass, and set them up according to my recommendations above (using well matching amplification), and you are pretty much good to go.
 
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