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Discussion Starter #1

I'm in the process of rebuilding my theater room and adding some speakers throughout the house and was wondering if the "in-wall" speaker wire really is necessary for speaker wire that runs in wall/ ceiling cavities. Because of my theater room location, some of the wire is actually ran under carpeting (between pad and actual carpet) and that has always been "regular" not in-wall rated speaker wire. Never had any issues.
 

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In wall rating has to do with the insulation on the wire and it's burning properties, in wall rating wire does well in case of fire, not aiding in the propagation and not giving off toxic gas. The fact that you haven't had any problems means you haven't had any fires that tested your wire.
 

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I have a feeling that any CL2-rated wire you get from Monoprice will cost about the same as any non-CL2 rated wire you buy elsewhere, assuming they're the same AWG. A quick check of 100' of 14AWG wire showed that CL2 from Monoprice was actually a few bucks cheaper than non-CL2 from Home Depot. My guess is the savings are even more with longer lengths.
 

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Discussion Starter #5

Quote:
Originally Posted by BIGmouthinDC  /t/1520043/speaker-wire-in-wall-worth-it#post_24415040


In wall rating has to do with the insulation on the wire and it's burning properties, in wall rating wire does well in case of fire, not aiding in the propagation and not giving off toxic gas. The fact that you haven't had any problems means you haven't had any fires that tested your wire.
Not concerned about fire, especially the stuff below the carpeting. May not have specified well enough I'm looking for info pertaining to audible quality differences if any. Any fire that was large enough to burn through carpeting to off-gas my wire down there would have already taken the entire house down, considering how fire spreads and propagates. Having overhauled at least 100 houses post-fire, I feel more than confident in that statement. Aside from checking an inspectors box (def won't be inspected) the "fire" ratings are pretty much a joke anyway. If somebody is bored look up the NIFSTA UL studies on modern vs legacy room burn rates/ times. Having seen fires in rooms with both types of furnishing I can testify to the videos first hand. Whatever I do won't be of fire spread concern, I have that knowledge base covered. Just looking for quality comparison opinions. 
 

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I'm not an expert, but I imagine that in wall rated cable will stand up better to being pulled through conduit or around framing.


Like Spaceman said, Monoprice has great quality, very low prices, and excellent customer service.


Off topic: Is that an English Mastiff in your Avatar?


Here's our 5 y.o. Sammy girl:



 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by W00lly  /t/1520043/speaker-wire-in-wall-worth-it#post_24423396


Slobber Dog


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1518554/new-diy-ht-room#post_24384665

This is only an issue with Sammy immediately after drinking. She doesn't drool, otherwise, as we feared she might. We mitigate the after-drink dripping by placing her water bowl in the kitchen far away from any seating area. By the time she gets to where we're sitting, her mouth is pretty much dry. She never shates her head, sending drool or water flying.


We're just lucky, I guess. She was an adult when we adopted her, so we can't take any credit for her good manners.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by osufhall  /t/1520043/speaker-wire-in-wall-worth-it#post_24422980


Not concerned about fire, especially the stuff below the carpeting. May not have specified well enough I'm looking for info pertaining to audible quality differences if any. 

Any speaker wire made of copper strands with the same AWG will perform identically, sound quality wise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.T.Nest  /t/1520043/speaker-wire-in-wall-worth-it#post_24423208


I'm not an expert, but I imagine that in wall rated cable will stand up better to being pulled through conduit or around framing.

Yes, this would be my main reason for recommending it regardless of the fire-rated requirements. The wire insulation is intended to be pulled / scuffed / scraped during installation and hold up. Lamp cord and other non-rated speaker wire doesn't install nearly as easily. I find myself using leftover Monoprice in-wall cable to make patch cables out of instead of anything else - it's so much easier to work with.


Jeff
 

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I found using amazon prime a worthwhile investment for getting in-wall wire. $3.99 overnight for a 50lb+ spool of wire, can't beat that!


That and not all in-wall wire jacketing is created equal. The stuff they sell at the homedespot tends to have a much lighter-weight casing. It tended to bind up or kink more readily when pulling it. And by pulling I don't mean much effort. Apply too much pulling force and you'll run the risk of stretching the strands inside and breaking them. Especially annoying if the pull was only hard enough to break strands inside and not the outer jacket.
 

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Discussion Starter #10

Quote:
Originally Posted by M.T.Nest  /t/1520043/speaker-wire-in-wall-worth-it#post_24423208


Off topic: Is that an English Mastiff in your Avatar?
Ya, she is one of two English Mastiff females I have. Both rescue dogs, and both great girls. 
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheGreat  /t/1520043/speaker-wire-in-wall-worth-it#post_24416217


Is there much of a cost difference? I mean to offset the insurance company not covering your losses after they see this post after a fire?



This is an all too common scare tactic on AVS and is largely over estimated.


1) As stated above, the rating has to do with toxic smoke and flame spread. It has nothing to do with the wire STARTING a fire.


2) In typical home amplifiers there is not enough power generated in the speakers cables to start a fire. Furthermore the amp is no doubt UL listed and therefore must have internal protections.


3) Many localities do not enforce NEC article 725 for SFD residential installations. Article 725 was devised for large buildings with an abundance of communications wiring. A few burning speaker cables in a residential wall is not going to produce any significant fumes in light of all the other stuff that is burning.


4) Unless the fire is designated as electrical in nature, the insurance adjuster isn't even going to bother looking at wiring.
 

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The inwall wire generally comes in the biggest spools and has the right surface smoothness to be pulled a long way and not het damaged.


I bought all mine on monoprice and i liked their 4 lead wire I ran under the concrete (in tubes) for my main speakers. 4 lead gives flexibility for wierd biamped situations or whatever. I ended up using 2 leads for the 12 volt trigger for the amplified part of my main speakers.


When in doubt, run extra wire... Or put in conduits. I should have done a lot more conduit in my main media room in retrospect if i wanted to go nuts and do an Atmos system.


I ran all the speaker wire myself and i should have just run a full 64 speaker wire runs
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie  /t/1520043/speaker-wire-in-wall-worth-it#post_24430444


This is an all too common scare tactic on AVS and is largely over estimated.


1) As stated above, the rating has to do with toxic smoke and flame spread. It has nothing to do with the wire STARTING a fire.


2) In typical home amplifiers there is not enough power generated in the speakers cables to start a fire. Furthermore the amp is no doubt UL listed and therefore must have internal protections.


3) Many localities do not enforce NEC article 725 for SFD residential installations. Article 725 was devised for large buildings with an abundance of communications wiring. A few burning speaker cables in a residential wall is not going to produce any significant fumes in light of all the other stuff that is burning.


4) Unless the fire is designated as electrical in nature, the insurance adjuster isn't even going to bother looking at wiring.

Agree 100%. But since you can get CL2 for about the same price as standard wire if you know where to look, I see no reason not to use it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spaceman  /t/1520043/speaker-wire-in-wall-worth-it#post_24431134


Agree 100%. But since you can get CL2 for about the same price as standard wire if you know where to look, I see no reason not to use it.

Well I can't argue with that. Yes CL2 cable is widely available so why not just use it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glimmie  /t/1520043/speaker-wire-in-wall-worth-it/0_40#post_24430444


This is an all too common scare tactic on AVS and is largely over estimated.


1) As stated above, the rating has to do with toxic smoke and flame spread. It has nothing to do with the wire STARTING a fire.


2) In typical home amplifiers there is not enough power generated in the speakers cables to start a fire. Furthermore the amp is no doubt UL listed and therefore must have internal protections.


3) Many localities do not enforce NEC article 725 for SFD residential installations. Article 725 was devised for large buildings with an abundance of communications wiring. A few burning speaker cables in a residential wall is not going to produce any significant fumes in light of all the other stuff that is burning.


4) Unless the fire is designated as electrical in nature, the insurance adjuster isn't even going to bother looking at wiring.

I was referring to #4. Insurance adjusters will try to get out of paying claims. Of course if you have a kitchen wire, they won't fault your theater speaker wire.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickTheGreat  /t/1520043/speaker-wire-in-wall-worth-it#post_24433386


I was referring to #4. Insurance adjusters will try to get out of paying claims. Of course if you have a kitchen wire, they won't fault your theater speaker wire.

Again in all the years this scare has been promulgated on AVS nobody to date has a documented case where a residential claim was denied due to non compliant wire insulation. It's simply a legal theory. I don't see any reputable insurance company going down this road. It's just to vague to waste legal fees on.


But the now homeless homeowner has no resources to fight the giant insurance company? Right?


Guess again.


The homeowner really doesn't own the home. The bank or mortgage holder does. And they have equally ruthless lawyers standing by just like the insurance companies. The homeowner does not have to fight the insurance company, the bank will because they will have lost the bulk of the money.


But hey, if someone is worried, there is plenty of low cost CL2 rated speaker wire easily available.
 

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For what it is worth I've had a related conversation with my Insurance agent about DIY home improvements and what if's. It was his opinion that the insurance company needs to prove willful negligence and disregard on the part of the homeowner to begin to deny a claim. So stupid mistakes are OK, planning to circumvent well known building code for personal reasons gets into shakier territory. In the past I've encouraged posters to remove evidence from their threads when they knew something wasn't done correctly. No sense leaving evidence for the jury.
 
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