[Coopx]

I just bought a HTIB Onkyo S5400, now i am planning to put the reciever behind me cuz thats where my projector is, now im thinking if its okay to run a 25-35 feet 16 AWG wire speakers from the reciever to the 2 front and Center speaker that are place at my projector screen, am i gonna loss some audio quality by doing this? also im planning to run a 35 feet subwoofer cable, is my setup going to be okay?


All the cables/wires will be coming from monoprice, and A/V source would be from PS3 thru HDMI.

 

[bbrio]

I think this website will help you make your decision:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


Go to the "Wire Table" link and you will see that you will need to know your speaker nominal impedance to find the maximum distance for your 16AWG.


Having said that, I bet most of the people on this forum (myself included) will advise to run 12 AWG from a reliable source (e.g. Monoprice). Its minimally more expensive, with the upside that you're future proof if you change speakers in the future. Better to err on the safe side.

 

[mcnarus]

+1 on 12 AWG. Costs minimally more, and you're definitely in safe territory.

 

[Jim Hef]

But, will a HTIB set be able to handle the 12 ga wire? Doubtful, but you could always just trim down the ends to fit what are probably spring clamp style terminals.

 

[Coopx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrio /forum/post/20835116


I think this website will help you make your decision:

http://www.roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm


Go to the "Wire Table" link and you will see that you will need to know your speaker nominal impedance to find the maximum distance for your 16AWG.


Having said that, I bet most of the people on this forum (myself included) will advise to run 12 AWG from a reliable source (e.g. Monoprice). Its minimally more expensive, with the upside that you're future proof if you change speakers in the future. Better to err on the safe side.

so i assume i do have 6ohms? am i right


According to Onkyo Site about S5400:

Power Output

Front L/R (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1%, 1 channel driven, FTC) 130 W/Ch

Center (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1%, 1 channel driven, FTC) 130 W/Ch

Surround L/R (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1%, 1 channel driven, FTC)130 ch

Surround Back L/R (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1%, 1 channel driven, FTC)130 W/Ch


Dynamic Power

180 W (3 ohms)

160 W (4 ohms)

100 W (8 ohms)

 

[Ratman]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Hef /forum/post/20837378


But, will a HTIB set be able to handle the 12 ga wire? Doubtful, but you could always just trim down the ends to fit what are probably spring clamp style terminals.

Good observation.


Additionally, if you "trim down" a 12 AWG wire to 14 or 16 to fit, doesn't that negate the need (and extra $$) for 12 AWG?

At ~35-40', 16 or 14 will be fine. There's nothing to future-proof since the wire distance isn't going to change.

 

[Colm]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman /forum/post/20837671


...if you "trim down" a 12 AWG wire to 14 or 16 to fit, doesn't that negate the need...for 12 AWG?

No. If 12 AWG is called for in the first place, it still has lower resistance per foot than 14 or 16 for all but the short trimmed down section. Of course, if 14 or 16 is adequate in the first place...

 

[schan1269]

This is a moot discussion, no matter what he does, some of the speaker wires are going to have to be that long. Does it matter if the front wires are 60ft or the rear wires? Nope.


The wire terminals on the Onkyo HTiB speakers should be able to handle 12ga. If not he can always get these...
http://www.amazon.com/RCA-AH11N-Spea...3686359&sr=1-7 (or similar)

 

[Ratman]

Hey... whatever works.


I personally don't think 12AWG is "called for" with an HTiB and a 40' wire run. To each their own.

 

[schan1269]

I think 12ga is a tad overkill as well. 14ga will work just fine. But, the cost difference between the two is what? $5?

 

[Ratman]

My point is... why "shave down" a 12AWG wire to make it fit? It's not the money, it's the common sense.


It's like putting an ice cube in a glass of fine wine.

 

[FOH]



Quote:
Originally Posted by schan1269 /forum/post/20838167


I think 12ga is a tad overkill

A tad overkill? That's what we do,...

I still feel the same, few potentially detrimental aspects of audio are so easily addressed as this, up-size and never look back. concentrate on optimization of speakers and the room. Actually, an small PS, anemic HTIB may even benefit the most from entirely dismissing any potential frequency dependent/lossy issues by up-sizing the gauge.


One can nearly tell time with Q's such as these....

Thanks and good luck

 

[schan1269]

I've always wondered why the "most basic" of audio seems to drum up the most questions...


The cables/wire...


Granted, I use Vanco and Belkin cables for darn near everything...and "bulk" CL/lamp cord from Lowe's...but still...


Why all the questions?

 

[Glimmie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman /forum/post/20838263


My point is... why "shave down" a 12AWG wire to make it fit? It's not the money, it's the common sense.


It's like putting an ice cube in a glass of fine wine.

Shaving 12ga wire down at the connector to say 16ga does not mean the entire length of 12ga wire is now 16ga. It's all about resistance. Even though you have increased the resistance of the connection point, the 12ga still has lower resistance than an equal length of 16ga. So the overall resistance of the entire speaker circuit is still lower.


Consider this. The wire inside the amp from the PC board to the jacks may only be 20ga or 22ga yet it still makes sense to use 12ga on the long lengths.


In commercial electrical wiring and even in large residences, 10ga wire is often used on long run 20a circuits for the same reason - resistance.


However I must agree 12ga is a bit overkill is the OP's situation.

 

[mcnarus]



Quote:
I've always wondered why the "most basic" of audio seems to drum up the most questions...


The cables/wire...

Do they? There are whole separate forums here related to speakers, amps, etc. Cables may get relatively more attention on the 2-channel forum (and maybe Audio Theory...) because there isn't a separate cable forum.


Another possible explanation for the number of cable questions is that there's so much bad and confusing "information" out there. It's no wonder newbies are befuddled.

 

[Ratman]

And yet another drawn out discussion in regard to speaker wires.


Hey guys, do what you like. I don't agree with retrofitting nor buying a "fatter" wire/cable unnecessarily.

And yet again, we're talking about a (no offense to the OP) a simple HTiB and 40' (or less) of speaker wire.


If anyone can truthfully state that they can "actually hear" a difference between 12 and 14 @ 40'.... please share the experiences and measurments.

 

[Coopx]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman /forum/post/20838498


And yet another drawn out discussion in regard to speaker wires.


Hey guys, do what you like. I don't agree with retrofitting nor buying a "fatter" wire/cable unnecessarily.

And yet again, we're talking about a (no offense to the OP) a simple HTiB and 40' (or less) of speaker wire.


If anyone can truthfully state that they can "actually hear" a difference between 12 and 14 @ 40'.... please share the experiences and measurments.

I went ahead and purchased 14AWG wire like you suggested and also based on the chart that was link here, thank you very much for the recommendation of all the people that posted on this thread, i really appreciate the help.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

http://www.monoprice.com/products/pr...seq=1&format=2

 

[Glimmie]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman /forum/post/20838498


...... I don't agree with retrofitting nor buying a "fatter" wire/cable unnecessarily.

Neither does Roger Russell. He points out exactly what you say in his paper.

 

[Colm]

Actually, what he says is this:


"What if you use wire heavier than the minimum size recommended in the table? There is no audible improvement but there can be a considerable increase in cost. On the other hand, it would be a conservative choice, particularly for in-the-wall installation where you might someday be using lower impedance speakers and would need to replace the existing wire with heavier wire."


And that is precisely what I did when I ran my in-wall wiring.

 

[Ratman]

If the OP is running the speaker wire "in wall", purchases CL rated and never intended to change the speaker placement in the future, 12 AWG may be a "nice to have" for peace of mind. (And leave "slack" when he wants to upgrade and snip the ends to accomodate the new equipment

)


Personally, I'd be more more concerned with an amp/receiver connected to low impedance speakers (4 Ohm) at ear bleeding volumes as opposed to the speaker wires.