[LowerFE]

Hi,


Can someone explain to me what's so good about SpeakerPower amps? They seem to be very expensive for the amount of power they output.


Yes, they are the most powerful plate amplifiers available, but the pricing is INSANE, yet every top tier commercial ID subwoofers use them. The submersive is $1195 without an amp, but $2700 with the 2400W speakerpower amp! I'm trying to understand what's so great about them that manufacturers would pay more for the amp than the entire subwoofer. For a subwoofer like the Submersive that uses 2 drivers, why can't you use 2 1000W amps, that probably cost only $400 each, instead of the $1500 speaker power amp?

 

[stormwind13]

They have a good track record of reliability, they have on board dsp pre programmed for flat FR are just a couple of the reasons.


Most people want a solution out of the box ready to go, they don't want to buy outboard amps or measurement equipment.

 

[BassThatHz]

Aren't they fanless (or some of them are?)

 

[djarchow]

From what others have said, as well as the comparative analysis on their website, the other difference is that they put out their rated power for longer and at lower frequencies than other amps.


A good example is the Speakerpower 2400 vs the Pascal X-Pro. Both are 2400 watt plate amps:


The Speaker Power amp puts out 2400 watts at 40 hz for 5 seconds

The Pascal amp puts out 730 watts at 40 Hz for the same time period


It is a bit hard to compare the numbers for the various amps directly on their web page since they didn't list the same specs/freqs/times for all their competitors amps but the trend is fairly clear.

 

[Swolephile]

I dont see the value other than as already stated, for guys who are financially blessed and want an all in one solution. No diy and no calibration via eq.

 

[DS-21]

Huge power, made in the US, electrical safety certified by an NRTL.


The last one is where a lot of big amps fall down.

 

[LowerFE]

Since speakerpower only sells non DSP amps to the public, what's the difference between using their 2400W amp vs something like a EP4000?

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]



Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerFE  /t/1523470/speakerpower-amps-whats-so-good-about-them#post_24514292


Since speakerpower only sells non DSP amps to the public, what's the difference between using their 2400W amp vs something like a EP4000?

It's on a plate, which IME isn't the best idea anyway, as mounting the amp on the speaker has no real advantages, while keeping the amp in the same area as the AVR drastically reduces ground loop potential.

 

[FOH]

Brian Oppegaard's Speaker Power amps are fantastic, IME. But yes, they're expensive.


In my opinion, they're simple, elegant design, topology and construction, nicely robust power output over time, subjectively they're beastly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerFE  /t/1523470/speakerpower-amps-whats-so-good-about-them#post_24514292


Since speakerpower only sells non DSP amps to the public, what's the difference between using their 2400W amp vs something like a EP4000?

You don't have to own them to know, but owning multiples of both, I can say the plate amp is lighter, more efficient, more powerful, fan-less, parts sourced and assembled in USA, entire amp assembled in USA. It's nice for customer service responsiveness, to have a US based operation ... for any issues.


Clipping behavior of the EP4000 can be unpredictable (very odd at times), the clipping behavior of the SP amps is seamless. They both fill a need.



Bill points out something important about ground loops, a lot of enthusiast have such issues. But employing best practices one can handle any trouble with ground loops encountered.



I like both the Speaker Power amps and the EP4000.

 

[Mark Seaton]



Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerFE  /t/1523470/speakerpower-amps-whats-so-good-about-them#post_24507638


Hi,


Can someone explain to me what's so good about SpeakerPower amps? They seem to be very expensive for the amount of power they output.


Yes, they are the most powerful plate amplifiers available, but the pricing is INSANE, yet every top tier commercial ID subwoofers use them. The submersive is $1195 without an amp, but $2700 with the 2400W speakerpower amp! I'm trying to understand what's so great about them that manufacturers would pay more for the amp than the entire subwoofer. For a subwoofer like the Submersive that uses 2 drivers, why can't you use 2 1000W amps, that probably cost only $400 each, instead of the $1500 speaker power amp?

Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerFE  /t/1523470/speakerpower-amps-whats-so-good-about-them#post_24514292


Since speakerpower only sells non DSP amps to the public, what's the difference between using their 2400W amp vs something like a EP4000?

The SpeakerPower amplifiers are quite expensive compared to value pro audio amplifiers. You could just as well ask why would anyone buy a Crown iTech or similar premium amplifier vs. a pile of EP4000 amps. The EP4000 works well so long as you never clip it, which sounds very bad when you do, which means using it well below its rated power. While the EP4000 and many Behringer products have been largely reliable in fixed home theater installs, the same cannot be said for professional mobile applications. Many in this forum have no concern for fan noise. Even with the fan mod, I would only use these in an equipment room or very far from the listening position, as the idle noise floor is quite important in a home audio system while is of no concern in pro systems. Making a high power amplifier operate without a fan or using a non-obtrusive fan this requires some combination of sufficient heatsinking and power efficiency. Higher efficiency means more of the power pulled from the wall ends up in the speaker than as heat in the amplifier. Even the external case versions of the SpeakerPower amplifiers only have the fan kick on when the internal temps exceed a set temperature. Unless packed tightly in a rack with other hot components, driven with clipped electronic music for hours or in direct sun on a hot day, the fans rarely are engaged, even with 2 amplifiers in 2RU case.


Some put value on being manufactured here in the US and available support from the designer and builder. With the "torpedo" series the US manufacturing starts from the production of the circuit boards. In the case of failures, the amplifiers are repaired, not thrown away, and even out of warranty the repair costs tend to be modest. I have yet to find a plate amp without a noisy on-board fan that has close to the performance on favorite subwoofer demo scenes where the duration and actual power delivery from others is typically found lacking.


Outside of the low cost, Asia sourced pro-audio amplifiers, the cost is not so extreme, and many big name home theater brands charge more for amplifiers that cost them 1/4 the price. The SpeakerPower amplifiers are a premium option that some will find to have great value while others will determine other solutions to be a much better value. It all depends on what someone wants, needs and the specifics of their application. In the same manner an LMS-Ultra is a terrible value compared to say multiple RS-18 from PE, it offers a unique set of capabilities, especially for those who are space limited and not concerned about power requirements. Both options still have plenty of customers.

 

[LTD02]

in a competitive marketplace, the next best option is one thing to consider in addition to the benefits of the product itself.


as far as i'm aware, the next best option appears to be something like this:

http://www.minidsp.com/products/plate-amplifiers/pwr-dsp1

 

[LTD02]

"For a subwoofer like the Submersive that uses 2 drivers, why can't you use 2 1000W amps, that probably cost only $400 each, instead of the $1500 speaker power amp?"


after letting the question marinate for a bit, another answer is "business insurance policy" .


mark and a few of the other fellows can't afford to have the amps fail because it would likely destroy their businesses.


there once was a company called av123 that was internet direct and provided very high value for the dollar...they sold thousands of subwoofers all over the place. then one day, the amps started blowing up, customers tried to get replacements, things became dodgy, and the sh_t hit the fan. iirc, one of the principals even ended up in jail.

so, spend a little bit more one amp in order to avoid that makes a lot of sense from the perspective of the small businessman who makes his living selling subs.


for the rest of the folks who don't have that baked in risk, who don't need amps to be portable, who typically run their amps in environmentally controlled conditions, and so on...there are better bangs for the buck, which of course explains why there are nearly zero folks here who run their diy systems with speakerpower amps.

 

[chrapladm]

While I am one fo the poor guys on this forum I am still very intrigued about the Speakerpower amps and plate amps. I like the big powerful 240vac power amp at 3400 dollars. While expensive the next best thing in that category for me is a PKN6000 amp. There are also other value products like the Peavey 7500 and Crest 7.5. And while I think those are amazing amps I just love the fit and finish of a plate amp. No fan noise and no power amp showing. I do wish they had a DSP version available to DIY though. BUT maybe I can just use the Mini AVR DSP and then I will only need an amp.


Either way they are the most powerful plate amp I know of for not that expensive. Not cheap but fit a niche.

 

[Martycool007]

I think the SpeakerPower amps are great, and I completely understand their benefits when it comes to reliability, convenience, no fan noise, excellent performance when driven close to clipping, ect...and I say that if you can afford them, great!


I am not sure if there are any other manufactures that produce a plate amp capable of using an active crossover/DSP built in for say a 3-way active speaker. The MiniDsp linked above can only provide for crossing over & DSP functions for a 2-way speaker. I know there are other manufactures such as PowerSoft, and maybe one or two more that have DSP capable plate amps too, but, I am not sure if any offer 3-way capable DSP features.

 

[LowerFE]

Lots of interesting insights! Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02  /t/1523470/speakerpower-amps-whats-so-good-about-them#post_24516439


"For a subwoofer like the Submersive that uses 2 drivers, why can't you use 2 1000W amps, that probably cost only $400 each, instead of the $1500 speaker power amp?"


after letting the question marinate for a bit, another answer is "business insurance policy" .


mark and a few of the other fellows can't afford to have the amps fail because it would likely destroy their businesses.


there once was a company called av123 that was internet direct and provided very high value for the dollar...they sold thousands of subwoofers all over the place. then one day, the amps started blowing up, customers tried to get replacements, things became dodgy, and the sh_t hit the fan. iirc, one of the principals even ended up in jail.

so, spend a little bit more one amp in order to avoid that makes a lot of sense from the perspective of the small businessman who makes his living selling subs.


for the rest of the folks who don't have that baked in risk, who don't need amps to be portable, who typically run their amps in environmentally controlled conditions, and so on...there are better bangs for the buck, which of course explains why there are nearly zero folks here who run their diy systems with speakerpower amps.

That's an interesting perspective. Then my question would be, if AV123's subwoofer amps failed, or any manufacturer's subwoofer amps fail, how come AV123 can't go to the manufacturer of the amp they used and claim for a warranty replacement just like their customers did? If the amps failed within warranty, then wouldn't amp failure be just paperwork, and maybe shipping costs to send the amps back to the manufacturer, for the company?

 

[zora]



Quote:
Originally Posted by LowerFE  /t/1523470/speakerpower-amps-whats-so-good-about-them/0_50#post_24520120


Lots of interesting insights! Thank you

Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02  /t/1523470/speakerpower-amps-whats-so-good-about-them#post_24516439


"For a subwoofer like the Submersive that uses 2 drivers, why can't you use 2 1000W amps, that probably cost only $400 each, instead of the $1500 speaker power amp?"


after letting the question marinate for a bit, another answer is "business insurance policy" .


mark and a few of the other fellows can't afford to have the amps fail because it would likely destroy their businesses.


there once was a company called av123 that was internet direct and provided very high value for the dollar...they sold thousands of subwoofers all over the place. then one day, the amps started blowing up, customers tried to get replacements, things became dodgy, and the sh_t hit the fan. iirc, one of the principals even ended up in jail.

so, spend a little bit more one amp in order to avoid that makes a lot of sense from the perspective of the small businessman who makes his living selling subs.


for the rest of the folks who don't have that baked in risk, who don't need amps to be portable, who typically run their amps in environmentally controlled conditions, and so on...there are better bangs for the buck, which of course explains why there are nearly zero folks here who run their diy systems with speakerpower amps.

That's an interesting perspective. Then my question would be, if AV123's subwoofer amps failed, or any manufacturer's subwoofer amps fail, how come AV123 can't go to the manufacturer of the amp they used and claim for a warranty replacement just like their customers did? If the amps failed within warranty, then wouldn't amp failure be just paperwork, and maybe shipping costs to send the amps back to the manufacturer, for the company?

There were other issues, but chinese suppliers can be problematic.

 

[LTD02]

"That's an interesting perspective. Then my question would be, if AV123's subwoofer amps failed, or any manufacturer's subwoofer amps fail, how come AV123 can't go to the manufacturer of the amp they used and claim for a warranty replacement just like their customers did?"


they will, but if you are dealing with ******* companies who, in such an instance, would let company XHFDG fail, claim bankruptcy, then open up new company CHDNZ across the street (or even in the same location) and start selling again, then you are out of luck.


----


"There were other issues"


yeah...I don't know the full story on the av123 amps, but they were blowing up all over the place and surely that just added to the mess that was the company...

 

[N8DOGG]

For the price of the standalone dual channel version, you can get a powersoft K10.......

 

[Scott Simonian]



Quote:
Originally Posted by N8DOGG  /t/1523470/speakerpower-amps-whats-so-good-about-them#post_24521526


For the price of the standalone dual channel version, you can get a powersoft K10.......

Puts things into perspective.

 

[chrapladm]

So at 3400 dollars the Powersoft K10 can be bought. WOW. Where?!!