[woofdawg]

So yesterday I go out and audition some speakers and wind up buying the Definitive Technology Procinema 600. They were being driven by a cheap Yamaha and also a marantz for comparison. Both receivers had nuetral settings, I checked.


Took them home, hooked up and ran Audessy on my denon 1909. After experimenting with different settings (Audessy on/off, treble etc.) I am not hearing the crisp upper highs that I heard in the store on more complex audio tracks. I kept the volume under -20 at home although the guy at the store was going up to -7 on the yamaha.


At this point, I am baffled at need some help finding the culprit. My questions are:


1. Could it be the difference in the receivers? Will the denon put out a more nuetral sound than the yamaha?


2. Do the def techs need to go thru the break-in period before they start to display their true potential with the upper highs?


3. I'm awaiting the 12ga. spool of wire from monoprice. I had no choice but to use 18ga. wire yesterday (couldnt just leave em in box on floor!) could this be affecting the sound that much?


The acoustics in my room are pretty good. Pergo floors, concrete ceilings with plaster walls and one large microfiber couch. The room is 10x12x8.


Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thank You

 

[allargon]



Quote:
Originally Posted by woofdawg /forum/post/16850345


The acoustics in my room are pretty good. Pergo floors, concrete ceilings with plaster walls and one large microfiber couch. The room is 10x12x8.


Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thank You

I hope you're kidding about the great acoustics. You have nothing but hard surfaces in a small, almost square room with a low ceiling. I hope you have a large area rug and lots of acoustic panels and bass traps.

 

[Splicer010]

EVERY speaker will sound different in your environment than the store...EVERY speaker...If they DT aren't what you want in sound then return and buy another set and take home and test...Or better yet just go ID and you'll get ALOT more speaker for your money than from any showroom...


allargon is correct...Your room is a reflection nightmare...You need more than just a couch in there to absorb the sound...That is also part of your problem...


You DO NOT need 12g speaker wire unless you are running the speakers over 75 feet away from the receiver...You can use smaller guage wire with no adverse affect on SQ especially if you run your speakers as small and use a powered sub...

 

[rdgrimes]

That was my first impression too. Highs are getting lost in a muddy mass of reflections. But it's also a small room which will tend to make a "big sound" difficult to achieve. Even a setup routine like Audessey will be easily fooled by all the reflections. Look at your distance settings and see if they match the actual distances.


Rugs, wall treatments and even ceiling treatments are almost mandatory with that room. Trying different speaker placements might also help.

 

[woofdawg]

What I mean by having good acoustics is that I've had several different speaker setups in this room and never had any problems like I am experiencing now. I am not getting that boxed in sound reflection because it is partially open on one side.


After I ran Audessy I checked the distances and they were correct.


As far as acoustics go, I will problably add some bass traps as needed. I am just trying to get this system in the ballpark right now and then fine tune afterwards.


As far as getting more speaker for $ online. It's a wonderful concept. I just sold a polk rti (8yrs old) 5.1 setup and bought the energy c50 package. Not bright enough for my ears and will send back (keeping the sub). I am not looking for a state of the art system for 10 grand, just something that is pleasing to my ears. If anyone has a recommendation for a system thats on the brighter side (not Klipsch)...I am all ears. Got a energy ESW-V8 thats waiting to decide which room he's going to live in.


Thanks for the answer about the wire gauge.


How about the break-in period? How much of a difference can I expect after 80-100 hours of use in regards to the highs?


What about the avr1910? Will I get a brighter sound if I switch to an Onkyo or Yamaha? I can still return the denon.

 

[rdgrimes]



Quote:
Originally Posted by woofdawg /forum/post/16850638


How about the break-in period? How much of a difference can I expect after 80-100 hours of use in regards to the highs?

.

The only break-in will occur in your head, as you adjust to the new sound.

 

[woofdawg]

so the "break-in" period is really a breaking in period for the individuals ears and not an absolute. interesting..sounds plausible to me.


How about the difference in AVR brands and nuetral vs. bright ones?

 

[cmarkmyers]

The difference in the AVR will most likely be subtle at best. I seriously doubt changing the AVR will suddenly make you like the Def Techs.

 

[raistline]

There can be a small difference in regards to which AVR you use, but not nearly as large of a difference as your room acoustics and the speakers themselves.


Denon's do have a reputation of being on the neutral to warmer side depending on who you ask and which model you are using.


I would not switch receivers to find a brighter sound, you are better of finding speakers that are brighter. You could also looking into finding speakers that use Horn Tweeters. They will most often be much brighter sounding then dome tweeters.


One last thing to note, the receiver at the dealership may also have had it's EQ set to accentuate the highs. Before you demo anything be sure that the EQ on is base lined. Just a thought.

 

[penngray]



Quote:
Originally Posted by woofdawg /forum/post/16850739


so the "break-in" period is really a breaking in period for the individuals ears and not an absolute. interesting..sounds plausible to me.


How about the difference in AVR brands and nuetral vs. bright ones?

Does not really exist, AVRs are measured out of factors with a specific rating that makes them very close to each other.


The biggest difference is that people need to level match AVRs properly before they compare them. This can never been done well enough at any store.


Show me a bright AVR and I will show you someone that didnt run all the setup routines properly.

 

[budkole]



Quote:
Originally Posted by woofdawg /forum/post/16850345


So yesterday I go out and audition some speakers and wind up buying the Definitive Technology Procinema 600. They were being driven by a cheap Yamaha and also a marantz for comparison. Both receivers had nuetral settings, I checked.


Took them home, hooked up and ran Audessy on my denon 1909. After experimenting with different settings (Audessy on/off, treble etc.) I am not hearing the crisp upper highs that I heard in the store on more complex audio tracks. I kept the volume under -20 at home although the guy at the store was going up to -7 on the yamaha.


At this point, I am baffled at need some help finding the culprit.

Where did you audition them at? I wonder if they had an amp somewhere in the mix and either forgot or intentionally didnt tell you. That happens more than you know. It would sound great at the store, and they say,"its being powered by just the receiver, but behind the wall/under a table......there is an amp working its a$$ off giving you great sound! And we all know and good amp can make a world of difference.

 

[ccotenj]



Quote:
Originally Posted by budkole /forum/post/16855701


Where did you audition them at? I wonder if they had an amp somewhere in the mix and either forgot or intentionally didnt tell you. That happens more than you know. It would sound great at the store, and they say,"its being powered by just the receiver, but behind the wall/under a table......there is an amp working its a$$ off giving you great sound! And we all know and good amp can make a world of difference.

i doubt very seriously that an "amp working it's a$$ off" is going to make the tweeters "brighter"...

no... "we" don't "all" know that...

high frequencies place very little demand on amplifier power, all things being equal...


his room is an acoustical disaster...

 

[raistline]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj /forum/post/16855773


i doubt very seriously that an "amp working it's a$$ off" is going to make the tweeters "brighter"...

no... "we" don't "all" know that...

high frequencies place very little demand on amplifier power, all things being equal...


his room is an acoustical disaster...

Not as bad as an all glass room circa "13 Ghosts* would be.

 

[budkole]



Quote:
Originally Posted by penngray /forum/post/16855653


Does not really exist, AVRs are measured out of factors with a specific rating that makes them very close to each other.


The biggest difference is that people need to level match AVRs properly before they compare them. This can never been done well enough at any store.


Show me a bright AVR and I will show you someone that didnt run all the setup routines properly.

yes, amen, preach brother preach.

 

[Jason Turk]



Quote:
Originally Posted by woofdawg /forum/post/16850345


So yesterday I go out and audition some speakers and wind up buying the Definitive Technology Procinema 600. They were being driven by a cheap Yamaha and also a marantz for comparison. Both receivers had nuetral settings, I checked.


Took them home, hooked up and ran Audessy on my denon 1909. After experimenting with different settings (Audessy on/off, treble etc.) I am not hearing the crisp upper highs that I heard in the store on more complex audio tracks. I kept the volume under -20 at home although the guy at the store was going up to -7 on the yamaha.


At this point, I am baffled at need some help finding the culprit. My questions are:


1. Could it be the difference in the receivers? Will the denon put out a more nuetral sound than the yamaha?


2. Do the def techs need to go thru the break-in period before they start to display their true potential with the upper highs?


3. I'm awaiting the 12ga. spool of wire from monoprice. I had no choice but to use 18ga. wire yesterday (couldnt just leave em in box on floor!) could this be affecting the sound that much?


The acoustics in my room are pretty good. Pergo floors, concrete ceilings with plaster walls and one large microfiber couch. The room is 10x12x8.


Any input will be greatly appreciated. Thank You

There are many factors. The receiver, room characteristics, layout of the speakers, heck even the connections can all affect the sound. Did you try adjusting the receiver to fine tune it?

 

[budkole]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj /forum/post/16855773


i doubt very seriously that an "amp working it's a$$ off" is going to make the tweeters "brighter"...

no... "we" don't "all" know that...

high frequencies place very little demand on amplifier power, all things being equal...


his room is an acoustical disaster...

jeez, i didnt realize that i had to spell this out to the T....."working its a$$ is just what i used to imply that it was being used with each and every receiver in the store showroom with the multiswitchers and doohickeys. Now if you dont know that more clean power produces more accurate and crisper hi's any any volume regardless of room acoustics, then nothing i can type will enable you to know that.

 

[ccotenj]



Quote:
Originally Posted by budkole /forum/post/16855924


jeez, i didnt realize that i had to spell this out to the T....."working its a$$ is just what i used to imply that it was being used with each and every receiver in the store showroom with the multiswitchers and doohickeys. Now if you dont know that more clean power produces more accurate and crisper hi's any any volume regardless of room acoustics, then nothing i can type will enable you to know that.

ummm... to quote the great john mcenroe... "you cannot be serious"...


you are right... nothing you can tell me will convince me... because you would be horribly incorrect...

 

[budkole]



Quote:
Originally Posted by ccotenj /forum/post/16855773


i doubt very seriously that an "amp working it's a$$ off" is going to make the tweeters "brighter"...

no... "we" don't "all" know that...

high frequencies place very little demand on amplifier power, all things being equal...


his room is an acoustical disaster...

I just re-read my previous post and i DO NOT see where i said that the amp working its a$$ off would produce brighter tweeters

To say that his room is an acoustical disaster is very stupid and rude at best. No such thing. The sensable thing would for you have said that his room was not the best for sound..or something like that. very insensitive!


What he should do its try different speaker placements to see which position yield the best results. Or for that matter different speakers.

 

[budkole]

bright and accurate are not one in the same.

 

[ccotenj]



Quote:
Originally Posted by budkole /forum/post/16855968


I just re-read my previous post and i DO NOT see where i said that the amp working its a$$ off would produce brighter tweeters

To say that his room is an acoustical disaster is very stupid and rude at best. No such thing. The sensable thing would for you have said that his room was not the best for sound..or something like that. very insensitive!


What he should do its try different speaker placements to see which position yield the best results. Or for that matter different speakers.

yet you followed up with a post that said just that...

please don't admonish me in an attempt to make yourself feel better... unless you didn't notice, his room IS an acoustical disaster... and i'm not the only one who pointed it out...

Quote:
Originally Posted by budkole /forum/post/16855992


bright and accurate are not one in the same.

no kidding... gee, i'm glad you educated me on that...