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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have seen so much info on setting the speakers to small or large that I am overwhelmed. I even read in a set up manual that stated "set them to large if they have speakers 4 1/2" or larger"... Does anyone have "facts &/or science" as opposed to opinion on this topic.


Regards,

Dougofthenorth
 

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If your speakers are full range (i.e., their frequency response is flat down to at least 35 Hz), then set them to large. If their bass response is any more limited than that, set them to small.


The advice to set 4.5" speakers to large is ridiculous!
 

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Doug,


Setting a speaker to LARGE will mean they get a full range signal. There aren't many speakers that are truly full range, and the few that really are flat down to 20Hz are expensive. Instead of losing that bass information, better to send the lower frequencies to a subwoofer where they can be reproduced with full authority. I think this is a good practice even with many big floor-standing speakers; they may be good at reproducing low bass, but a decent sub will often do a better job at those same frequencies. Hey, that's what sub was designed to do.


What kind of bass management do you have? Can you select the crossover point or do you just have LARGE and SMALL serttings?


Best,

Sanjay
 

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wow, great posts.. I love this forum..

I had mine front ones set to large, and rears to small, thinking speaker size.. Running to change them all to small, since I have a dedicated subwoofer..

thanks guys..
 

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I've seen many reasons given for setting speakers to "small", regardless of their size, and the reasons are very persuasive. For those whose receiver's crossover, like mine, can't be set below 100Hz, the "large" setting may be the only way to get bass in the 80-100Hz region coming from all sides (by using the sub's crossover instead of the receiver's). I've compared, and in my system, the multidirectional 80-100Hz really does sound better.


It may be that multidirectional 60-80Hz sound is also important, and I've seen a reference (which I've lost) to listening tests suggesting that it is. But I haven't been able to test this.
 

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Most of the time, regardless of what your front speakers are, if you're using an appropriate sub...set them to "small." (Even the 150 lb. Triad Platinum LCR must be set to small.)


If your front speakers are truly full range and they have flat bass response and you set them to "large," you'll be adding subwoofer bass on top of their already-flat bass. This will result in too much bass...(yes, that is possible!)


You'll reduce the headroom of your front speakers if they are set to large.


If your mains are placed properly for best imaging and dispersion, that is no doubt a bad spot for bass...away from a wall and out in the room. The dissimilar arrival times from your fronts and your sub could result in bass cancellation, too.


Your mains and your sub(s) have dissimilar response characteristics in the bass regions.


Even if you have full-range speakers, they are probably down 3 dB by 40 Hz, or they have reduced output down there. A large driver meant to handled response up to 800 Hz or so was not necessarily designed to handle 30 Hz very well, ergo "woofer" and "SUBwoofer."


If you have humongous front speakers AND a subwoofer, at least set your crossover point to 60 Hz or lower and set the fronts to small.
 

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I have the Avia test dvd and they talk about this in the speaker setup (can't remember the exact chapter).


The info they give is that nearly all recievers in their bass management systems is that the "small" setting mainly assumes that you have a 8" woofer or smaller.
 

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it depends on what your source is, whether your in 2 channel or 5.1 channel, and the frequency response of your speakers are. Cone size has no relevance on speaker size. You know what the best method is? Experiment til it sounds just the way you like. One mans trash is another mans gold
 

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To paraphrase what has been said before, if your system calibrates and sounds better with your mains set to "large", then either your speakers say Dunlavy, VMPS, or Legacy on them, or your subwoofer isn't up to snuff. This can mean your sub is suffering from some boomy peaks that need placement correction or EQ'ing, or the sub itself isn't a stellar performer.


See Brian Florian's posts in the threads Stacy Huff linked above for some good practical info on the matter.
 

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Here's another question ...


If I tell my processor that all my speakers are large, does it "dilute/reduce" the bass going into each speaker such as not to overload the room ? Are there standard industry-accepted guidelines or algorithms that the manufacturer's use to accomplish this ?


A few weeks ago I picked up a Bryston SP-1.7 processor to replace a Lexicon MC-1. I run a 7.0 system and set all my speakers to large, though my 4 surrounds are not really large. In the past, I liked the localization of whatever deep bass my 4 surrounds could provide. Now with the Bryston processor, I get much better & articulate bass by setting my surrounds to Small and X-Overed at 60Hz ( lowest setting ). It takes quite a bit of experimentation to get a feel for what a processor does behind the scenes.


- Andy
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Originally posted by sdurani

Doug,


What kind of bass management do you have? Can you select the crossover point or do you just have LARGE and SMALL serttings?


Sanjay;


I have the Yamaha RX-Z1, It allows the setting of large & small, as well as the crossover points &

the Low Frequency bass setting allows "SW, NONE, BOTH (Mains & SW)


Regards,


Dougofthenorth


PS: I have now set speakers to small & bass to SW only. I am now leaving the "heavy" work to my Paradigm Reference Servo-15 SW. My L&R Mains (SD RTS-11) only handle down to 30Hz the Servo goes to 14Hz.
 

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I posted this to another near-identical thread:

Are there really any experts? I am hard pressed to accept anyone claiming to be an expert without seeing some credentials, and just being an audiophile for 20 years is not my idea of credentials, sorry. Not knocking anyone, but take everything with a grain of salt.


You may find it in some system configurations to set your main loudspeakers to Large, and others to Small. Yes, THX does forward the idea they should be Small, but how many of us have rooms conforming exactly to THX specification and using THX certified equipment.


I am tempted, for instance, to leave my full-range speakers configured as Large and allowing the subwoofer(s) to feed off of those channels. The loudspeakers have high-frequency, mid-range, and bass drivers all separated with their internal crossovers. Adding a subwoofer to utilize the LFE contained in the front left/right channels.


Although what I am tempted to do as a configuration may not appeal or apply to anyone else that is the beauty of being flexible in one's system configuration. I just thought an example of why someone would leave these channels configured as Large was more readily needed than Small.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy Lammer
Here's another question ...


If I tell my processor that all my speakers are large, does it "dilute/reduce" the bass going into each speaker such as not to overload the room ? Are there standard industry-accepted guidelines or algorithms that the manufacturer's use to accomplish this ?
Hi Andy,


The lower frequency's going to the speakers will not be diluted or reduced when the speakers are set to large. Because the lower frequency in the speaker channels are a different from the LFE-channel there is no need to do this, overloading your room with bass is a acoustics problem, not software-related.


Speakers which are not full-range (and even speakers that are) will indeed produce a tighter and better articulated mid- or upper bass when they don't have to concern about producing the low bas frequencies.


Best regards,


Patrick
 

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Patrick, please explain how, "lower frequency in the speaker channels are a different from the LFE-channel". I'm not under the impression, and I am under the impression that the content in the front-left/right channels contains all the bass information found in the LFE channel.


Can you sight a specific reference (Dolby, DTS, THX) where your position is clearly defined? Not knocking what you are saying, but in hearing two differing sides it would be best to find a credible source for all of us to follow. If the LFE frequencies were not contain in the front-left/right channels then that would make full-range speakers pretty useless, and even offering that as an option in a receiver or pre-pro useless.


I'm really confused here.
 

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Hi WanMan,


What I meant to say was that each soundchannel is discrete, containing it's own signal. The LFE-channel is a discrete channel (in DD and DTS) also and therefor does not have to contain the same information of soundsignals as found in the other channels.


Each channel in DD and DTS is full-rang with the exception of the LFE-channel which contains soundinformation in the 20-120Hz frequency zone. The LFE-channel does not have to contain the lower frequencies which also can be found in the front righ/left or even surround right/left. If you set the speaker-settings to small then lower frequencies found in these channels will be routed to the sub (besides the LFE-channel the sub now also has to take care about the lower frequencies of the other channels), if the speaker settings are set to large the full-range signal of this channel will not be cut off and re-routed (so full-range speakers aren't that useless)


Hopely this will clear what I try to say, as I'm from the Netherlands I might have a handicap in the english language;)


Best regards,


Patrick
 

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WanMan,


I don't know what kind of credentials you are looking for, but Paul Scarpelli's credentials seem pretty strong to me. If you check the link I posted and look at Brian Florian's posts I think he explains things pretty well. I'm not sure of his credentials other than he is a writer for the Secrets website, but he seems pretty knowledgable to me.
 

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The use of Large for the Main L&R speakers can provide better dynamics if an active steep slope xover (at least 24dB Linkwitz-Riley) is used to xover L&R mains to a capable sub(s) and any re-directed bass (from center and surrounds) + LFE is sent to the main L&R channels (by selecting sub=NO in the speaker setup).


Very, very few main L&R speakers will produce optimum bass output without a sub when set to Large. In addition, some room mode cancellation/re-inforcement can occur when they compete with a sub at the same frequencies, when speaker setup is sub=YES and the sub is connected to sub-out of pre-pro.


IMHO.
 
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