AVS Forum banner

1181 - 1200 of 1305 Posts

·
Registered
5.1.4 Setup with Dolby Vision capable OLED
Joined
·
1,028 Posts
Thank you for sharing! Shane graded the montage on the current disc and the updated montage on the next one.
Hey Stacy. I love hearing that! That is great that the video ties to this thread. Although to be fair I didn't know of that connection. :) But I love it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,607 Posts
Hi @sspears, couple of questions,
Can you guys PLEASE add ATMOS and DTS:X to the Sync One 2 test as audio 3 and 4? I am finding there is a difference in sync times when using an upmix processing and codecs. Not alot, around 25ms but it can be a noticable amount to be off by.
I have the calibrated to TrueHD (without upmixer) but it remains I cannot verify the accuracy when movies are in ATMOS. I am using a Denon 4400H just to say this is a very popular model of AVR.
Also it's better to just have it sound it from the center channel or the option to do so.
I spoke to the engineer who mixed our Atmos tones and we should be able to add Atmos for the AV Sync patterns. And if DTS is able to create DTS:X for us, then we should have that too. Sound is now back in the center channel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,226 Posts
@sspears How much image information exist between the low end and 100 nits?

It seems as if there is a nice amount image information lost if the display isn't calibrated to D65, colors clip so detail is lost.

When calibrating HDR10, would you recommend setting the software to the measured black level after a couple reads?

Is it possible to create a pattern or image that shows the different levels of detail lost, when the display is set to the wrong white point or color temperature? (PQ)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,041 Posts
How much image information exist between the low end and 100 nits?
Almost all of the picture information is in that range. Above 100 (or 200 nits) is mostly specula highlights and the like.

It seems as if there is a nice amount image information lost if the display isn't calibrated to D65, colors clip so detail is lost.
Clipping occurs due to contrast (white or individual colour) set too high, Colours do not clip just because the white balance is off from D65.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,226 Posts
Almost all of the picture information is in that range. Above 100 (or 200 nits) is mostly specula highlights and the like.


Clipping occurs due to contrast (white or individual colour) set too high, Colours do not clip just because the white balance is off from D65.
Visually, I have to agree and disagree. This is present in content on Mr. Spears disc, on the Bad Boys For Life disc as well as Ready Player One.

There's more detail in the snow while the horses are grazing, the field of red roses, with the single yellow one has brighter highlights. Bad Boys theres a scene with the boys confronting someone in an apartment, the room is dim with sunlight coming in through the blinds, that weren't present before the 2 pt D65 calibration. Ready Player One, red detail inside the Mecha Godzilla. More cloud detail, where previously it was a blob of bright white.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,041 Posts
Visually, I have to agree and disagree. This is present in content on Mr. Spears disc, on the Bad Boys For Life disc as well as Ready Player One.

There's more detail in the snow while the horses are grazing, the field of red roses, with the single yellow one has brighter highlights. Bad Boys theres a scene with the boys confronting someone in an apartment, the room is dim with sunlight coming in through the blinds, that weren't present before the 2 pt D65 calibration. Ready Player One, red detail inside the Mecha Godzilla. More cloud detail, where previously it was a blob of bright white.
I am not surprised that you see more details after calibration. What I was saying was that those differences are not due to D65 per se. As mentioned in my previous post, reducing the Contrast control can help reduce clipping. The RGB Gain controls that you adjust during 2 pt calibration are essentially colour-specific counterparts of the Contrast control.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,607 Posts
The tone map ramps might do what you want. They go up to 10,000 and have what we call a modulation ramp in the middle of each ramp. Its tiny lines that help identify where it clips. You can try different color temp modes and see if it changes the clipping point.

Beyond that, I agree with what Dominic has said. It is possible one or two channels might be clipping with white balance being way off, then you might see some discoloration where it clips on the tone map ramps since it is white.

Contrast or tone mapping would be more in line with what I would expect to cause the loss of detail.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,226 Posts
I am not surprised that you see more details after calibration. What I was saying was that those differences are not due to D65 per se. As mentioned in my previous post, reducing the Contrast control can help reduce clipping. The RGB Gain controls that you adjust during 2 pt calibration are essentially colour-specific counterparts of the Contrast control.
That explains some other things that were present while watching Blade Runner 2049, what looked like banding, but was actually the contrast luminance being in error.

Thanks for the clarification, I've had this display for 4 years and I'm just now seeing its true potential or a more accurate representation of the PQ EOTF. I never associated a 2 pt cal to being a contrast calibration. It was always just one step from calibrating to 2.2 or BT.1886 with multi-point white balance controls.

I'm going to put the Benchmark disc in again to see if any other patterns benefited.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,226 Posts
The tone map ramps might do what you want. They go up to 10,000 and have what we call a modulation ramp in the middle of each ramp. Its tiny lines that help identify where it clips. You can try different color temp modes and see if it changes the clipping point.

Beyond that, I agree with what Dominic has said. It is possible one or two channels might be clipping with white balance being way off, then you might see some discoloration where it clips on the tone map ramps since it is white.

Contrast or tone mapping would be more in line with what I would expect to cause the loss of detail.
Red and Green were to high, they were factory set to the same amount as blue. I calibrated using the factory menu color temperature and internal full field patterns. De_ICtCp and 20%-80% stimulus was used, as understand it to be a little less forgiving on errors. And appears to have ironed out some chroma subsampling issues. I'll check out the tone mapping patterns tonight and report back.

Thanks for the response.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,041 Posts
I never associated a 2 pt cal to being a contrast calibration. It was always just one step from calibrating to 2.2 or BT.1886 with multi-point white balance controls.
The objectives of 2-pt calibration is indeed to bring the white point closer to D65. It’s somewhat coincidental that the colour that you’re reducing the gain, happens to be clipping.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,226 Posts
The objectives of 2-pt calibration is indeed to bring the white point closer to D65. It’s somewhat coincidental that the colour that you’re reducing the gain, happens to be clipping.
It suggest that tone mapping, doesn't just work. Contrast or the white point needs to be accurately calibrated. If you want to see the detail it is meant to retain.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
749 Posts
I spoke to the engineer who mixed our Atmos tones and we should be able to add Atmos for the AV Sync patterns. And if DTS is able to create DTS:X for us, then we should have that too. Sound is now back in the center channel.
Thanks for the update. Would there be a chance to have a version of the test in 1080p/24 as well?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,607 Posts
Thanks for the update. Would there be a chance to have a version of the test in 1080p/24 as well?
We have created all the AV Sync patterns in HD and UHD at both 23.976 and 59.94 in True HD 5.1, 7.1, DTS-HD MA 5.1, 7.1 and are working on Atmos and DTS:X. We have also asked if we can get a version of DTS:X flagged for IMAX Enhanced. Not sure on the last one, but the request is in. All in the center channel.

We also added a second pattern for Sync-One2 for calibration. The Sync-One2 pattern(s) now have motion in the pattern to ensure it triggers any motion interpolation algorithms for those that like that sort of thing.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
209 Posts
We have created all the AV Sync patterns in HD and UHD at both 23.976 and 59.94 in True HD 5.1, 7.1, DTS-HD MA 5.1, 7.1 and are working on Atmos and DTS:X. We have also asked if we can get a version of DTS:X flagged for IMAX Enhanced. Not sure on the last one, but the request is in. All in the center channel.

We also added a second pattern for Sync-One2 for calibration. The Sync-One2 pattern(s) now have motion in the pattern to ensure it triggers any motion interpolation algorithms for those that like that sort of thing.
Will there be some Atmos demos?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,104 Posts
I really enjoy using this disc for setting the brightness on my OLED. I discovered with this disc, that the brightness on my E6 OLED was one click too high with SDR even though other pluge patterns showed 51 was the correct setting. Even though a 0% black slide looked black in a dark room, lowering brightness to 50 still easily allowed me to see the 2% bar and the smaller bar near the top almost all the way down to 64. No light pollution like other pluge patterns which throw off the eyes when trying to set brightness. The question I have, at a brightness of 51 I faintly see the checkerboard squares. So when setting brightness on OLED, should I faintly be able to see those, or should I just focus on the smaller bars near the top that get me close to 64 without elevating the black levels and leave brightness at 50?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,607 Posts
I really enjoy using this disc for setting the brightness on my OLED. I discovered with this disc, that the brightness on my E6 OLED was one click too high with SDR even though other pluge patterns showed 51 was the correct setting. Even though a 0% black slide looked black in a dark room, lowering brightness to 50 still easily allowed me to see the 2% bar and the smaller bar near the top almost all the way down to 64. No light pollution like other pluge patterns which throw off the eyes when trying to set brightness. The question I have, at a brightness of 51 I faintly see the checkerboard squares. So when setting brightness on OLED, should I faintly be able to see those, or should I just focus on the smaller bars near the top that get me close to 64 without elevating the black levels and leave brightness at 50?
The checkerboard is intended for DLPs. You should see dither in the brighter checker and pure black in the other. With gamma set to BT.1886 / 2.4, you would have to be nose to the screen to really see it. In 8-bit, the checker is 16 and 17. In 10-bit, it is 64 and 68. With a higher gamma, the checker is easier to see, which is incorrect. I think your C8 has 1.9, 2.2 and 2.4 options. Cycle through them and you should see the difference.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,104 Posts
The checkerboard is intended for DLPs. You should see dither in the brighter checker and pure black in the other. With gamma set to BT.1886 / 2.4, you would have to be nose to the screen to really see it. In 8-bit, the checker is 16 and 17. In 10-bit, it is 64 and 68. With a higher gamma, the checker is easier to see, which is incorrect. I think your C8 has 1.9, 2.2 and 2.4 options. Cycle through them and you should see the difference.
Thanks for the info. I will set my brightness on my E6 oled to where I dont see the checkerboard.
 
1181 - 1200 of 1305 Posts
Top