[sspears]

Hey Stacey, I'm sure this is true but I've been seeing some weird things with my C9 from HDR blu-rays. I've noticed that in-frame elements that are true black in the SDR and Dolby Vision versions of a movie are not black in the HDR10 version with Brightness = 50. Letterbox bars are black, and black level clipping test patterns on YouTube look correct, but the content itself looks bad. Fade-in transitions from "black" are marred by posterization, for example. Lowering brightness to 49 tends to fix most issues, but I'm sure it's clipping shadow detail. Do you know why this is?

Could be how it was graded. If the colorist did not use a scope on a display that does not go to 0, then black will be elevated. e.g. The montage was graded on a Pulsar with 0.005 black. That is what is in the metadata per Dolby's request. The colorist, at Dolby, used a scope to put black at black.

How is the black background on the HDR montage on our disc? Any scene with the raptors or honey have primary black at 0. (64)

 

[skewlkid521]

Could be how it was graded. If the colorist did not use a scope on a display that does not go to 0, then black will be elevated. e.g. The montage was graded on a Pulsar with 0.005 black. That is what is in the metadata per Dolby's request. The colorist, at Dolby, used a scope to put black at black.

How is the black background on the HDR montage on our disc? Any scene with the raptors or honey have primary black at 0. (64)

Thanks Stacey. Unfortunately I don't have your disc (wish I did!), but I've seen true black on other HDR10 test patterns that I have. The weird thing is I've noticed this for 4 different discs, which is why it was hard to believe that they're all graded this way. In fact, recently I got the disc for the movie Ex Machina, and on that one I saw that even the letterbox bars are elevated! Really weird.

 

[sspears]

We delivered disc 1 assets to authoring this week. Some stuff will have to be cut because it ends up over 100 GB after muxing into m2ts. Some numbers. The disc on the market today is ~89GB and 1400+ files. Before muxing, the new assets are 95.7 GB and 4515 files. Fingers crossed it all muxes okay. Last time around, I did have to re-encode some content to get it to mux.

Disc 1 does not have audio tones for levels or any montages, its all test patterns! Audio tones will go on disc 2, which is SDR. We will either put the montages on disc 2 or we will bump them to a 3rd disc. DTS:X has been cut, they are unable to deliver due to COVID19, so audio tones are in Atmos only. AV Sync will be in Atmos, TrueHD and DTS-HD MA. (center channel this time) The montage audio should be mixed in Atmos soon. There are two different pieces of music. It transitions between the tulips and pocket watch.

While the authoring starts, I have kicked off the video renders for the audio graphics. These are the videos that are shown when the pink noise is playing. Each one is taking ~7 hours to render from AE. There are 75 of them! Then once that finishes, I will start rendering disc 2 patterns.

Hopefully we start to see some builds of disc one in a few weeks to begin testing. Last time authoring started in February and the disc hit the market in June.

 

[sspears]

Sorry for not responding sooner. I never received an email notification about new posts.

 

[ConnecTEDDD]

I put together some TIFF images of the Seattle shot with the Space Needle at each stage of processing so you can see how it evolved from start to finish. The first six images are in the REDWideGamutRGB / Log3G10 space, so they will appear to lack saturation and contrast when viewed on a gamma display. Also note that white balancing did not occur until images 7 and 8, when they were graded.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iemk0ukdil961b5/SM_Processing_Example.7z?dl=1

1. 00_Legacy.tif - This is the legacy demosaic algorithm.
2. 01_IPP2.tif - This is the IPP2 demosaic, which retains more detail than legacy.
3. 03_IPP2_TNR.tif - This is the IPP2 image with temporal noise reduction applied.
4. 04_IPP2_TNR_Decon_Mask_C00.tif - This mask is showing the pixels that deconvolution will touch, which is every pixel in this example.
5. 05_IPP2_TNR_Decon_Mask_C05.tif - This mask shows the settings I used for this shot when applying deconvolution. This way I avoid the noise in the sky getting sharper. Each shot used custom settings for best quality on the new disc. For the current disc, every shot used the same settings.
6. 06_IPP2_TNR_Decon.tif - This is IPP2 w/ temporal noise reduction and deconvolution.
7. 07_IPP2_TNR_Decon_Grade_HDR.tif - This is image number 6 graded for HDR (New disc) (BT.2020 / ST2084)
8. 08_IPP2_TNR_Decon_Grade_SDR.tif - This is image number 6 graded for SDR (New disc) (BT.709 / Gamma 2.4)

These are 16-bit full range TIFFs.

If you have Photoshop, I would load all images as a stack. Then you can turn on and off each layer to see the difference as you look at the same portion of the image.

Hi Stacey, can you export one frame from RCX in R3D?

I want to understand your process from the beginning before the first transcode.

 

[sspears]

Hi Stacey, can you export one frame from RCX in R3D?

I want to understand your process from the beginning before the first transcode.

I archived the R3Ds to LTO back in 2018. Not sure when I will get around to restoring them to HDD. You should be able to use the TIFFs I shared earlier. I exported them from RCX using Primary Dev only mode, which outputs a clean REDWIdeGamutRGB (RWG) and Log3G10 image w/o any other processing applied that exists in RCX. You can compare the various stages of processing from them.

The two graded images have changed a bit, from the TIFFs below, to recover the clipped gamut around the crane on the right side of the Space Needle.

Here is my original post about the TIFFs, with the details, so you don't have to go back and dig it up.

I put together some TIFF images at each stage of processing so you can see how it evolved. The first six images are in the REDWideGamutRGB / Log3G10 space.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/iemk0ukdil961b5/SM_Processing_Example.7z?dl=1

1. 00_Legacy.tif - This is the legacy demosaic algorithm. It was used 100% from 2007 - 2017, which is when IPP2 was released. Some still choose Legacy today.
2. 01_IPP2.tif - The order of operations changed to improve quality and it has a new demosaic algorithm that retains more detail than legacy.
3. 03_IPP2_TNR.tif - This is the IPP2 image with temporal noise reduction applied.
4. 04_IPP2_TNR_Decon_Mask_C00.tif - This mask is showing the pixels that deconvolution will touch, which is every pixel in this example.
5. 05_IPP2_TNR_Decon_Mask_C05.tif - This mask shows the settings I used for this shot. This way I avoid the noise in the sky getting sharper.
6. 06_IPP2_TNR_Decon.tif - This is IPP2 w/ temporal noise reduction and deconvolution.
7. 07_IPP2_TNR_Decon_Grade_HDR.tif - This is image number 6 graded for HDR (New disc)
8. 08_IPP2_TNR_Decon_Grade_SDR.tif - This is image number 6 graded for SDR (New disc)

 

[sspears]

I was getting really annoyed by the fact that this pattern is only 1 minute long and that the (extremely bright) LG video player UI pops up at the end of every file it plays, even if you set the player to loop, which together made it very difficult to let my eyes adjust to darkness enough to distinguish some of the lower code levels in the pattern on my LG 77CX (I would basically have to look away and close my eyes every minute to avoid getting blinded by the UI).

You should be able to demux back to an elementary stream using ffmpeg. Then you can use copy /b from a Windows command line (e.g. copy foo.hevc /b + foo.hevc /b + foo.hevc /b bar.hevc /b) to concatenate the file as many times as you like. Then use MP4Muxer (from Dolby, on Github) to remux as profile 8.1. mp4box will not work for Dolby. Have not tried others.

You can also insert mono audio if you like when you remux.

I normally use the pause button and play a profile 7 version from the OPPO since its pause sign goes away. OPPO does not support profile 8.1, it just plays as HDR10. Can't create profile 5 as that is ICtCp and we generate everything in YCbCr today.

The reason the clip is one minute long is that is because we use one minute clips on disc for the motion content and then we loop it via authoring. The static patterns are only two frames long on the current disc and looped as well.

 

[ConnecTEDDD]

I archived the R3Ds to LTO back in 2018. Not sure when I will get around to restoring them to HDD. You should be able to use the TIFFs I shared earlier. I exported them from RCX using Primary Dev only mode, which outputs a clean REDWIdeGamutRGB (RWG) and Log3G10 image w/o any other processing applied that exists in RCX. You can compare the various stages of processing from them.

The two graded images have changed a bit, from the TIFFs below, to recover the clipped gamut around the crane on the right side of the Space Needle.

Here is my original post about the TIFFs, with the details, so you don't have to go back and dig it up.

OK, the 7 and 8 TIFFs of your post are not anymore useful, since the final grade has changed, can you upload the final versions of 7+8 TIFF, to able to understand the fix you applied when I will compare the old (7+8 TIFF) with the new versions?

 

[sspears]

OK, the 7 and 8 TIFFs of your post are not anymore useful, since the final grade has changed, can you upload the final versions of 7+8 TIFF, to able to understand the fix you applied when I will compare the old (7+8 TIFF) with the new versions?

Please re-download, I replaced the two files. It looks like the SDR version was already the final version.

 

[sspears]

Here is a screen shot of AE rendering one of the videos for the audio tones.

 

[sspears]

Just a quick update. DTS was able to provide us with DTS:X versions of our A/V Sync tones, so that is good news!

 

[Balthazar Lin]

@sspears Just for your information LG C9 does already support Dolby Vision 4.0, that is what is said in edid and in this dolby presentation. Box

Also latest update for CX added back MEL support in LG Player, but no support for FEL, that is why I will use C9.

Also wanted to point out this app, which can play with xvYCC color spaces, dithering in windows from nvidia, hdr, range and even CL BT.2020, which is nuts. But no either of two DCI-P3, supported in HDMI, or ICTCP (from ITU, not dolby vision). Maassoft/ColorControl

 

[sspears]

@sspears Just for your information LG C9 does already support Dolby Vision 4.0, that is what is said in edid and in this dolby presentation. Box

Also latest update for CX added back MEL support in LG Player, but no support for FEL, that is why I will use C9.

Also wanted to point out this app, which can play with xvYCC color spaces, dithering in windows from nvidia, hdr, range and even CL BT.2020 ON TV ITSELF, which is nuts. But no either of two DCI-P3, supported in HDMI, or ICTCP (from ITU, not dolby vision). Maassoft/ColorControl

Yes, C9, CX and C1 all support 4.0.

CX added support for Profile 7 MEL? That is good to know.

 

[sspears]

@sspears
Also latest update for CX added back MEL support in LG Player, but no support for FEL, that is why I will use C9.

One thing that is better in the CX is PC mode. They fixed it, so now you get both 4:4:4 chroma and 10-bit.

 

[Balthazar Lin]

One thing that is better in the CX is PC mode. They fixed it, so now you get both 4:4:4 chroma and 10-bit.

that is only in hdmi 2.1, no? Also that app has dithering on nvidia that fixes the issue more or less. Also LG C9 also has hdmi 2.1 that is better. Also in C9 I can get 48 gbit 12 bit HDR and DTS sound.

 

[Balthazar Lin]

@sspears Yeah, LG C9 also fixed in HDMI 2.1. See 2019 LG C9–E9 dedicated GAMING thread, consoles and PC

But I do not have anything outputting HDMI 2.1... Just saying.

 

[zeonstar]

Probably the wrong thread for this but does anyone know what Dolby Vision profile the C8 uses? I ask because I’ve been waiting for Apple to make the Apple TV 4K AirPlay Dolby Vision content from an iPhone 12 series and it as of now still does not work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[sspears]

Probably the wrong thread for this but does anyone know what Dolby Vision profile the C8 uses? I ask because I’ve been waiting for Apple to make the Apple TV 4K AirPlay Dolby Vision content from an iPhone 12 series and it as of now still does not work.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It supports 2.9. 4.0 is only in C9 and above.

DV recorded on an iPhone 12 will play as HLG on a C8. It will play as Dolby Vision on a C9 and above. It uses Profile 8.3.

 

[sspears]

Just to clarify. 4.0 has 2.9 metadata in it as well for backwards compatibly. You can put 2.9/4.0 in Profiles 5, 7 or 8.

 

[zeonstar]

It supports 2.9. 4.0 is only in C9 and above.

DV recorded on an iPhone 12 will play as HLG on a C8. It will play as Dolby Vision on a C9 and above. It uses Profile 8.3.

Thanks for the information. I had heard more or less than before. But in my case, mine wont even play as HLG on my C8 if I AirPlay directly to it. Same goes for my Apple TV 4K, which I do have set to match range "ON."

Is there a "Settings" Page on the iPhone for AirPlay? I am doubting it but figured why not ask.