AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 74 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
My Marantz SR9200 is Pre HDMI but has dedicated 7.1 analog inputs that can be adjusted (sound levels) via the menu options. There are two companies that make units that will split out the Linear PCM (LPCM) signal from the HDMI input and direct it to a 7.1 analog outputs that could then go into the dedicated analog inputs on my AVR.


I know that even a decoded LPCM signal may need further processing i.e. if the subwoofer level is to low, but my Marantz looks like it can boost the subwoofer signal if required. What I plan to do is direct the HDMI Monitor Out to the TV and the analog out to my Marantz AVR.


One company is Gefen with their GefenTV HomeTheater Audio Processor. The other is acompany called Octava Inc. The Gefen only has one HDMI in with two HDMI out's and one set of 7.1 Analog outputs. I would still need to get an HDMI switcher If I had more than one HDMI input.


The Octava is the 4 x 2 HDMI Distribution Amp with 7.1 Audio Routing. This unit has 4 HDMI inputs, 2 HDMI outputs and 1 set of 7.1 analog outputs as well as another set of 7.1 analog inputs.


Does any one know of any of the above products and if this set up would work? I really can't afford to drop the cash on a newer AVR of the same quality just ot get a connector! I know that the device sending the HDMI signal out will have to have the decoders built in i.e. Blue Ray with the newer Audio formats.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,075 Posts
What playback device is involved? Blu-ray is about it for 7.1 audio and there are several BD players with 7.1 analog outs. Seems a lot simpler.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
434 Posts
I take it from your post that you are trying to use a Blu-ray player with your Marantz, since that's the ONLY 7.1 source around. But you also mention buying an HDMI switcher so I'm not certain.


Why not spend a tad more on a Blu-ray player and get one with analog 7.1 channel outputs? That way you don't have to buy a middleman piece, which probably costs more than the $100 that those higher-end BDPs cost. Also, you will be able to adjust the channel levels of the BDP's 7.1 analog outputs within the Blu-ray setup.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,268 Posts
Check out that GefenTV HomeTheater Audio Processor thing a little more. It doesn't have support for any of the lossless codecs it seems. You might be just as well off using HDMI from the BR player to your display and then use dig coax or toslink from the BR player to the Marantz. Assuming the BR player will let you.


Their website says you'll get 8 channels of stereo audio.....what does 8 channel stereo sound like?


This has been discussed before and what you're essentially looking to do is get a "break out" box. The only way to truly do that is to buy a cheap HDMI receiver that processes audio AND has pre-amp outputs and use them to feed your higher quality receiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #5 ·
First I do appreciate the responses and my Marantz DV7001 Universal DVD player does have both HDMI and 7.1 analog outputs. I have a collection of DVD-a disks that I play through this unit using the analog out from the DVD player into the 7.1 analog in the AVR.


Keep in mind the 7.1 analog inputs on my AVR also support 5.1 in addition to 7.1.


If I have multiple devices Universal DVD player with SACD and DVD-A and then add on a Blu-ray and maybe later Wii game player and not all have analog outputs at the price point I can afford, but do have the Codecs couldn't I then use the lpcm to feed the analog inputs for the audio only?


I'm more interested in the Octava inc. unit. In other words I want to use it as an HDMI switch with both HDMI out for the video and analog 7.1 for the audio.


The Octava unit is about 350 bucks.


Am I missing a key point here about Blu-ray players that can handle TrueHD and the other formats vs the AVR?


Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,075 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete56 /forum/post/15469647


If I have multiple devices Universal DVD player with SACD and DVD-A and then add on a Blu-ray and maybe later Wii game player and not all have analog outputs at the price point I can afford, but do have the Codecs couldn't I then use the lpcm to feed the analog inputs for the audio only?

Sorry, but I'm lost. Please describe how you envision cabling your current Universal player, a Blu-ray player, and a Wii game console to your receiver and display.


BD players with analog outs cost about $100 more than similar models without them, considerably less than the switch box you are considering.


Wii's don't output high res multichannel audio and you'll be fine with analog stereo to your receiver.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The Octava switch has 4 hdmi inputs with two HDMI outputs and set of analog 7.1 outputs and another set of analog inputs. I was planning to run the HDMI out from both the Universal DVD and the Blu-ray to two of the inputs and a computer soundcard (eventually) to the one set of analog 7.1 inputs. The 7.1 analog outputs would go into my AVR 7.1 analog inputs. The HDMI out from the switch would go to the TV.


Currently Wii is not Hi res but that could change in the future. Also who knows what else may come down the road. This gives me some expandability while still letting me utilize my AVR for everthing audio. It also provide a replacement for the component out for the monitor on my AVR which does not have HDMI.


The big question is if the source unit (DVD player) does the conversion of say DVD-A the LPCM should provide the proper output to my AVR via the analog 7.1 inputs.


I wax nostolgic for the days when all audio equipment was forward and backward compatible with only three cable types to worry about - speaker wire, RCA jacks and a power cord!


Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,938 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete56 /forum/post/15470562


I wax nostolgic for the days when all audio equipment was forward and backward compatible with only three cable types to worry about - speaker wire, RCA jacks and a power cord!

But we have a lot more choices of sources now.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,075 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete56 /forum/post/15470562


The Octava switch has 4 hdmi inputs with two HDMI outputs and set of analog 7.1 outputs and another set of analog inputs. I was planning to run the HDMI out from both the Universal DVD and the Blu-ray to two of the inputs and a computer soundcard (eventually) to the one set of analog 7.1 inputs. The 7.1 analog outputs would go into my AVR 7.1 analog inputs. The HDMI out from the switch would go to the TV.

Thanks. That gives me a better picture of what you are trying to accomplish.


You can feed three sets of analog inputs to your AVR with a $25 switch. If your TV only has one HDMI input, a $35 HDMI switch can be used there. I'm using both types of switches in my system right now. But, of course, more complex approaches will work as well.


Check to make sure the HDMI switch will work with your devices' specific features. Handshaking through switches can be an issue.


You should also investigate the quality of the DACs and compare them to the ones in your disc players.


And, how will you handle bass management? You can't do it in your receiver because the audio is already analog by the time it gets there and you can't do it in the players because they'll be outputting PCM. That only leaves the Octava switch. Does it do bass management? That would be something if it did.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,268 Posts
I have to say after taking another look that the Octava device, that it appears it will do what you want. With the exception of the bass management as another poster noted. Maybe an outboard BM device would work, like an Outlaw ICBM. They are no longer made though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Ok this is the part that I'm fuzzy on. I've heard the term thrown around by vendors and on forums like this, but haven't really got a good definition of what it is and what it does?


I know I can change the subwooferlevel on the AVR, but I'm betting Bass Mgmt does more than that.



As for number of sources I would disagree, in the day there was vynle, cassette and Reel to Reel. I would say the sources are better though!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,075 Posts
As you know, the subwoofer gets the LFE audio - the really deep bass for things like explosions. But the sub also serves a second purpose. Bass management reroutes low frequencies from speakers that can't handle them to the subwoofer, which can. Most people have speakers that struggle to reproduce audio below 80-100Hz. Bass management sends frequencies below that crossover level to the sub.


BM has to happen while the audio is still digital and it usually takes place in the receiver. But, with analog output, it has to happen in the player, prior to the digital-analog conversion. Players are set to send unprocessed digital audio to receivers or to process the audio themselves for analog.


Your idea of using an intermediate device to turn digital audio into analog appears to mean that bass management won't be done at all. It won't happen in the player, which is sending out digital, expecting bass management to happen later on. And it won't happen in the receiver because the audio is already analog when it gets there. So, it has to happen in the Octava. But, I can't imagine the Octava would have that capability.


If you have full range speakers all around, bass management won't matter. But, that's pretty rare.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #13 ·
"And, how will you handle bass management? You can't do it in your receiver because the audio is already analog by the time it gets there and you can't do it in the players because they'll be outputting PCM. That only leaves the Octava switch. Does it do bass management? That would be something if it did."


After looking up Bass Mgmgt it looks like my AVR does handle that. I can set the speaker sizes to small or large. The large setting sends the whole spectrum to those speakers. Since I'm running Bose 901's these are set to larege and still get the bass. So the only thing I need to worrry about it seems is the subwoofer level and the lfe setting so I don't apply both the AVR's subwoofer filter and the AVR filter at the same time to the subwoofer.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,075 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete56 /forum/post/15480647


After looking up Bass Mgmgt it looks like my AVR does handle that. I can set the speaker sizes to small or large.

Unless you have the rare receiver that redigitizes the analog inputs, your receiver's settings will not be applied to the analog inputs. Bass management, EQ and any other digital signal processing happens when the audio is digital. In your case, it will already be analog coming out of the Octava switch.

Quote:
The large setting sends the whole spectrum to those speakers. Since I'm running Bose 901's these are set to large and still get the bass. So the only thing I need to worrry about it seems is the subwoofer level and the lfe setting so I don't apply both the AVR's subwoofer filter and the AVR filter at the same time to the subwoofer.

Again, the AVR's crossover won't be used. But, since your speakers are large, there's no rerouting of bass involved any way.


You will need to boost the sub by 10db, however. LFE is output 10db low and needs to be boosted in the AVR. With digital transmission, the receiver software applies the boost. With analog, you need to apply it yourself. Many receivers have a setting for that purpose.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
635 Posts
Have you investigated the price of a new but non-current model Marantz with HDMI, like an SR6001 or SR5002? Because I'm pretty sure you can get one for the price of this Octava.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
BIslander I believe you are right. With my speakers I don't think I will have any problems with the Bass as I can increase the level for 7.1 as there is a selection for it in my set up menu. The 901's also have an equilizer for each pair that are between the Pre-Amp and Power Amp connections on the back of my AVR. I know Bose are not known for their low end but for my pruposes right now they are good enough. Plan to upgrade the Sub-woofer some time down the road and the new Digital sub-woofers sound interesting. Maybe by the time I can afford one they will come down in price a bit.


Quote:
Originally Posted by EricM407 /forum/post/15482555


Have you investigated the price of a new but non-current model Marantz with HDMI, like an SR6001 or SR5002? Because I'm pretty sure you can get one for the price of this Octava.

Eric, I've seen what you've said on other forums while browsing. The problem with this is I'm already at the top performance wise with the SR9200 with 7 channels at 140 watts of power each and other nice things. Putting a cheaper AVR in the mis is going the opposite direction. I'm figuring that 350 bucks is a cheap upgrade compared to getting the Marantz Seperats at 5K for the PreProcess and Amp combination. That is where I'm looking to go if I can't get HDMI to work in some manner with my current set up. Since I can't afford 5K the 350 bucks sounds cheaper to me if it works. Hope that explains it.


I figure to hedge my bets I'll check on the return policy for the Octava swithcher and if I can return it if I can't get it to work. Since my DV7001 DVD player also has hdmi I can test it with that.


Thanks for the help everyone. Learned a lot and especially what I still need to find out. Fun getting back into this!


Pete - by the way Eric when do you sleep! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·
I meant mix vs mis in my last post. Also I need to have both Pre out and main in on the amp as the equilizers for the Bose 901's have to go between them in a surround sound set up and I just can't see replacing the PreAmp of the SR9200 with a cheaper AVR even if it has PreAmp out's. I've noticed that the cheaper ones don't even have these.


I do not plan to replace the 901's because the sound awsome in a surround set up!


Pete
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9,075 Posts
Pete - I remain curious about why you're not interested in a simple switch for the analog inputs. That gives you bass management and distance settings for time management from your disc players for $25. If your display needs an HDMI switch for the video, you can pick up one of those for $30-100.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
635 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete56 /forum/post/15491600


I meant mix vs mis in my last post. Also I need to have both Pre out and main in on the amp as the equilizers for the Bose 901's have to go between them in a surround sound set up and I just can't see replacing the PreAmp of the SR9200 with a cheaper AVR even if it has PreAmp out's.

But you can see replacing the preamp of the 9200 with the Octava? That's what you'd be doing if you're using it to process HDMI. The cheaper Marantz may not have the quality DSP and DAC of the 9200, but compared to the Octava I have to think it's superior. If you need the power of the 9200, then use the cheaper AVR only as a pre for HDMI sources.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter · #20 ·
BIslander, I'm not looking for a simple analog switch. When I first started looking for a replacement to my busted Yamaha DVD-A player the only Universal players in the 200-300 dollar range supported DVD-a through the HDMI cable. The optical connections didn't support hi res and they didn't have 7.1 analog out's. So I had to convince my wife why I was spending 500 bucks on a DVD-A player to get DVD-A. I'm figuring I'll be going through more source devices than AVR's so getting the Octava unit gives me more flexibility the next time around.


Eric, as for the Octava unit replacing my AVR I guess I can see where you are coming from if you view the AVR with the emphasis on V, but I'm looking at it from an Audio standpoint. My SR9200 as far as video goes is just a glorified switch for obsolete connections for Video. It doesn't do any video processing internally. Howerver the audio side still does all kinkds of stuff with the analog audio as well as provide the tuner and set up. So from my standpoint I'm just replacing the obslete video switching with something more up to date.


Bottom line is I'm not saying your solution whon't work, but it just doesn't meet my requirements. Adding another AVR into the system requires me to have both of them on at the same time, one for the PreAmp and the other for the Power Amp. I can just see me electric bill! ;-)
 
1 - 20 of 74 Posts
Top