[EdPell]

I had been toying with the idea of getting an Olive music server until I learned about the Logitech Squeezebox Duet. I've read a lot of posts on the forums here and read through part of the Duet manual, but I have some questions that I hope you folks here can help me with.


My plan is to rip my CDs to an external hard drive in FLAC format. The router will be wired to my PC but the Logitech Controller and Receiver will be wireless.


Even though my PC is usually running about 12 hours a day, there are times that I don't want it on just to listen to music, so I thought about getting a Network Attached Storage (NAS) device. Then I learned about wireless routers (eg, Linksys WRT350N) with USB ports that, with an attached HD, can perform as a NAS.

Q1. Any problems using a router this way with the Duet?


If I understand this stuff correctly, with the PC off and the router/HD running, I should be able to use the Controller to select and play files from the hard drive.

Q2. Is this correct? I'm a bit confused about this because the SqueezeCenter software is installed on the PC. Perhaps it's stand-alone software that's installed on the external HD?


Q3. If the online radio stations I listen to are primarily FM station broadcasts or www.1.fm stations, do I need to set up a SqueezeNetwork account?


Much has been discussed in this forum about Digital-Analog Converters (DACs). I plan to trade in some older McIntosh audio equipment for a new McIntosh MA6900 integrated amp.

Q4. Any opinions on Squeezebox DACs being on the same performance level with the MA6900? Or should I consider a separate device.


Thanks in advance for your help,

EdP

 

[Will2007]



Quote:
Originally Posted by EdPell /forum/post/15398583


My plan is to rip my CDs to an external hard drive in FLAC format. The router will be wired to my PC but the Logitech Controller and Receiver will be wireless.

The ripping is the hard part. Well, it's tedious, anyway. Plan how you are going to do it first. Your tags are important so that the SqueezeCenter software will sort the songs in an album correctly and associate the album artwork with the titles, etc. Ideally, you want to rip them once and not have to go back and clean up your tags.

Quote:
Even though my PC is usually running about 12 hours a day, there are times that I don't want it on just to listen to music, so I thought about getting a Network Attached Storage (NAS) device. Then I learned about wireless routers (eg, Linksys WRT350N) with USB ports that, with an attached HD, can perform as a NAS.

Q1. Any problems using a router this way with the Duet?

No problems with using a wireless router, assuming you have a strong enough signal at the desired location for the Squeezebox receiver.


The problem with your plan is revealed below.

Quote:
If I understand this stuff correctly, with the PC off and the router/HD running, I should be able to use the Controller to select and play files from the hard drive.

Q2. Is this correct? I'm a bit confused about this because the SqueezeCenter software is installed on the PC. Perhaps it's stand-alone software that's installed on the external HD?

You do use the Controller to select files and to tell the receiver what to do. It works much like an iPod click wheel and is otherwise a fancy remote for the receiver, with a nice color screen and accelerometers for waking it up from a sleep.


You won't be able to connect just any external HDD to your router and expect it to run the SqueezeCenter software. You will need to use either your computer itself or a NAS server capable of running the software (it has to have some processing ability) because that's what operates the SB. The Controller communicates with the software by direct communication with the router or via a bridge with the SB receiver, depending on how you set it up. With nothing running the software, you would have nothing operating the Duet, at least not if you want to accept your music collection on your hard drive.

Quote:
Q3. If the online radio stations I listen to are primarily FM station broadcasts or www.1.fm stations, do I need to set up a SqueezeNetwork account?

You need to set up a SqueezeNetwork account so the network can recognize your Duet with its unique ID. The good news is that you don't need your computer or server on when listening to internet radio or other wireless music services via SqueezeNetwork. You'll just need to allow the Duet to communicate with your router.

Quote:
Much has been discussed in this forum about Digital-Analog Converters (DACs). I plan to trade in some older McIntosh audio equipment for a new McIntosh MA6900 integrated amp.

Q4. Any opinions on Squeezebox DACs being on the same performance level with the MA6900? Or should I consider a separate device.


Thanks in advance for your help,

EdP

No opinion other than the whole DAC business is overrated hype, in my opinion. The Duet's DAC is fine. The only difference you're likely to notice between it and a typical AVR (yes, I know the McIntosh is an integrated amp and not an AVR) is that the Duet's analog output volume is a little lower than the signal output via digital through its own DAC. Once level-matched, however, I defy you to tell a substantial audible difference. In my opinion, buying an expensive external DAC would yield little or not audible difference. In any event, my personal opinion is that the price-to-performance ratio would be very low.


Good luck and enjoy it if you get one. Be advised that the initial setup may require a call or two to tech support, but once you get it sorted out, you shouldn't have much trouble, unless your wireless network is weak or unstable.

 

[Somewhatlost]



Quote:
Originally Posted by EdPell /forum/post/15398583


Even though my PC is usually running about 12 hours a day, there are times that I don't want it on just to listen to music, so I thought about getting a Network Attached Storage (NAS) device. Then I learned about wireless routers (eg, Linksys WRT350N) with USB ports that, with an attached HD, can perform as a NAS.

Q1. Any problems using a router this way with the Duet?

Sonos is the only system that works flawlessly with a NAS...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdPell /forum/post/15398583


If I understand this stuff correctly, with the PC off and the router/HD running, I should be able to use the Controller to select and play files from the hard drive.

unless you are referring strictly to Sonos and not to Squeeze, than no, you do not understand correctly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by EdPell /forum/post/15398583


Much has been discussed in this forum about Digital-Analog Converters (DACs). I plan to trade in some older McIntosh audio equipment for a new McIntosh MA6900 integrated amp.

Q4. Any opinions on Squeezebox DACs being on the same performance level with the MA6900? Or should I consider a separate device.

if the MA6900 has it's own built in DAC than use that...

but the built in DAC's of any of the media player's is ok....

 

[EdPell]

Thanks Will and Some for the quick and comprehensive replies to my questions.

Quote:
The ripping is the hard part. Well, it's tedious, anyway.

Well, I'm retired so I have the time. I also have a stocked wine cellar to help take the drudgery out of the task. I have a bit to learn about ripping with tags and deciding on the "best" software to use. There's a lot of discussion going on about that topic, but I've not paid much attention to it previously because I didn't need it.

Quote:
You won't be able to connect just any external HDD to your router and expect it to run the SqueezeCenter software.

I thought perhaps the Logitech software had a rudimentary OS that could reside on the external HD. Apparently not. I looked around to learn something about NASs and decided not to add another layer of complexity to the installation. Seeing as how I now have my PC on about 12 hours a day, another few hours won't hurt.

Quote:
if the MA6900 has it's own built in DAC

The MA6900 does not have its own DAC. My ears are no longer young, so I might not hear a difference between the Duet's DAC and a dedicated DAC device anyway.


Thanks again,

EdP

 

[IcemanDallas]

Ed, you don't mention how much music you have but you still may want to pick up a NAS, if only for backup purposes. I bought a Seagate ethernet attached 500GB NAS which is hardwired to my router and I use this to serve the music files to Squeezecenter. I have a second USB hard drive attached to the laptop running SC, which is used for backup and powered down at other times. The NAS is visible to all the computers on my network and is used to back up their hard drives. The dumb NAS devices are not very expensive and are invaluable if you should experience a drive failure. And just because youe computer is turned off doesn't mean your Duet is useless. You will have access to internet radio stations and services like Pandora at no charge with your Duet!

 

[EdPell]

Good idea, Ice, and worth some thought.


I already have external backup storage for my PC, so that's covered.


For my CDs, I thought of getting a couple of 500GB (maybe 750?) drives - one to hold the FLAC files and the other for backup. I should be able to get 1200-1300 FLAC-formatted CDs on a 500GB drive. I believe I have about 800 CDs right now. Two such drives will be cheaper than a NAS plus a backup drive.


But I like the idea of access to internet radio without depending on the PC. I have to decide if the extra cost is worth it to me.


Thanks for the suggestion.

EdP

 

[IRJ]

Do you have an Apple iphone? If so you can use that to control any SB w/o the separate controller. I believe the software DL costs $10.00

 

[EdPell]

Thanks for the info, IRJ, but your note gave me a chuckle ...


No, I don't have an iPhone, I don't even have a cell phone. I don't have an iPod either or even one of those MP3 things to stick in my ears. I don't own a Blackberry and don't even like blackberries - those seeds get stuck between my teeth.


I listen to music in my house and in my car and there's no one I need to talk with urgently. Well, except for those good folks at 911 and let's hope I won't ever have to bother them.


I'm not a Luddite, I just never felt a need for those things. But I do appreciate your input.

EdP

 

[Jonnio]

Ed - a few things that I don't think were quite clear reading through this thread that I thought I would pitch in some info on.


You only need a squeezenetwork account if you want to listen to internet radio, pandora, rhapsody, etc... without your PC on. It is free though, so why not. I used Pandora via squeezenetwork a TON (almost exclusively) before I found some server side plugins that I grew to really love and started running a 24/7 server for them. That basically solves your NAS vs. external HD dilemma. A server is only required for local music and certain add-ons to the server software.


Since you don't already have a NAS you have a lot of options that will work for you for storage/server. If you want to use your existing PC you can add storage to it, you can use a compatible NAS for squeezecenter, you can use an old or build a cheap PC and put NAS software on it. I took a laptop with a broken screen and use it as my server. It currently has a USB hard drive on it, but that is temporary and is only plugged in sometimes. My favorite music is on the small laptop hard drive and the rest is plugged in when needed. Eventually I will build another NAS with lots of storage for movies/music, but I will still leave the laptop as my server since it only draws about 12W. There are also a lot of threads on the squeezebox forums on building cheap, energy efficient servers for squeeze.


Also, if your computer is fairly new and running windows many of the squeeze products will issue wake on lan packets to wake the server when needed. I haven't messed with this yet, so I can't say for sure how well it works with the duet.

 

[dcohen]

Time for my usual comment.


You should also look at the Squeezebox Classic (used to be called the Squeezebox 3) or even the Squeezebox 2 (from eBay, differs from the Classic in form factor, not in functionality).


The Classic uses an infra-red remote, so one needs line-of-sight, and the information about files, tracks, etc, has to be read from the SB itself. By contrast, the Duet has the info on the remote, which is wireless. The Duet remote will also control he Classic, if you are using more than one device.


For a single device, rather than synching several, I feel the Classic is fine.

 

[IRJ]

EDP,


Thanks for the reply.


How do you listen to music in your car? I note you want to use a lossless format such as FLAC for storage. Do you use a USB type device to store music for play in your car?


The type of device you use in the car might change the suggestions for you.


Also re the suggestion of using a Classic. Don't be afraid to go this way. I have an original SB (1) and it works very well, along with a Duet and the latest SqueeezeBox. The latter works very well standalone. Music quallity is good, a smidgen below a fullblown ingerated AMP/receiver + good speakers.

 

[EdPell]

All you folks have been fantastic in taking the time offer suggestions. You've given me a ton of information to chew on and now I have a lot of research and reading to do, eg, best ripping/tagging software, the value (if any) of a Bolder mod, etc. etc.


Unfortunately, by the time I begin to understand this stuff and make a decision, everything will change and I'll have to start all over again.

IRJ ...


I have a six-CD changer in both my cars and use them exclusively. The reason I plan to rip to FLAC is because it's a compressed yet lossless format. I'm pretty sure I can get by for now and most likely for the future with 500-750GB hard drives for storage and backup.


EdP

 

[Somewhatlost]

I currently only have about 400 cd's (just a guess, I had ~300 when I went 'disk-less', but I have bought about 100 since finding Pandora a couple of years ago)... anyway they are all encoded as flac, its only about 100gig... so using very imprecise fuzzy math, that should equal ~ 2000 CD's on a 500 gig HDD...

even if my math is way off, you should be fine storage wise for a while with a 500 or 750...

for ripping dbPoweramp has a cool ripper thingy...

I prefer Exact Audio Copy...(mostly I am used to it)


for tagging music I like Tag and Rename...


for the car, I only use copies of CD's... CD's get trashed in cars...

 

[EdPell]

I really hate to throw a monkey wrench into this thread, but during my research, I read a bit about the Transporter which appears to be a Squeezebox on steroids.


I realize it's significantly more expensive than a Duet, but I wonder if it might be a better audio quality match with the McIntosh.


EdP

 

[Jonnio]



Quote:
Originally Posted by EdPell /forum/post/15438384


I really hate to throw a monkey wrench into this thread, but during my research, I read a bit about the Transporter which appears to be a Squeezebox on steroids.


I realize it's significantly more expensive than a Duet, but I wonder if it might be a better audio quality match with the McIntosh.


EdP

The big thing the Transporter gives you is the ability to stream the higher bit rate lossless audio up to 24 bit resolution at a 96 khz sample rate. It also has a first rate DAC if you need one to feed an amp that is missing digital inputs. It can still be controlled by the squeezebox controller too and sync with all of the other squeezebox products.

 

[Somewhatlost]

and the transporter will look really nice, like it belongs with the other equipment...