[jsm88]

Ok, I've been looking at the squeezebox duet setup for about a month now, was getting ready to purchase, when a new player enters the arena from a side door. Apple (full disclosure: I am NOT an apple guy, have 4 pcs at home, last apple product was a mac plus from 1985 that is in a box somewhere) has released remote control software for the iphone/touch that allows you to remotely control itunes on a computer and music on an appletv device. This would appear to have the same general functionality as a combination of a duet controller, sb receiver, soft squeeze and squeeze center. Now, I'm sure there are a number of drawbacks on the apple side of the comparison (lack of audio sync'ing and lesser remote software immediately come to mind - I'm sure repliers who are more knowledgeable could discuss in more detail) but there are also drawbacks on the sb side.


I am a big fan of open source, have spent a fair amount of time on sourceforge over the years, and I use VLC and Media Player Classic for all my video needs right now. I use itunes (after time with early musicmatch, and with foobar2000 and songbird also installed on my system) because it just handles a large (30,000 song) collection better and works more smoothly (though i swear foobar sounds better) My big hesitation on the squeezebox has been that the combo of squeezecenter and squeezesoft has just been clunky - it's not really easy to manage the music in squeezecenter and the insistence on using the sb model for squeezesoft, as opposed to taking advantage of the fact that it's running on a pc with a large screen is unfortunate. I had reconciled to continuing to use itunes to manage the music and taking advantage of squeezecenter's nice itunes integration. Squeezesoft in particular though is concerning -the SqS main page still refers to SqS 2 (we're on 3) and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of dev. activity.


So with the release of the apple remote software it occurs to me that a $299 ipod touch and $229 apple tv are just $129 more than a squeezbox duet (certainly more in that range than the sonos) with the added advantages of video support by the receiver (though I don't believe the remote software controls video yet) and a "remote" that doubles as a web device and mp3 player (essentially another receiver.) There also appears to be more community software support for the apple devices - a big advantage going forward.


I'd be interested in folks thoughts on this whole situation. The obvious consideration for me is the deployment level of the apple products and constant updates - it would make sense for them to increase this functionality over time (as they we're in audio wireless streaming early with the air-ports) and add video (and hopefully hd video). I was really this close to ordering a duet and was waiting on the new popcorn hours that were supposed to be released any day. Both of those seem to have immediate functionality advantages over an apple solutions, but what do we think over time?

 

[skomarla]

You know, I'm exactly the same boat. I never thought i'd go with apple for something like this and was eyeing the duet very seriously. Now i'm rethinking my decision. ipod touch would be nice and would leave the house with me. apple tv is the only drawback for its lack of codec support (outside the apple endorsed stuff) and i would probably think about an HTPC or nearly HTPC (eee box) as an alternative to the apple tv.


I too would like to hear what others think about where remote itunes control over ipod touch/iphone will develop.


isn't competition good?

 

[Charles R]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jsm88 /forum/post/14260059


So with the release of the apple remote software it occurs to me that a $299 ipod touch and $229 apple tv are just $129 more than a squeezbox duet (certainly more in that range than the sonos) with the added advantages of video support by the receiver (though I don't believe the remote software controls video yet) and a "remote" that doubles as a web device and mp3 player (essentially another receiver.) There also appears to be more community software support for the apple devices - a big advantage going forward.

You can also use Airport Express (one or several) if you only want audio ($88 at Best Buy).


Before I purchased a Sonos system I used two Airport Expresses and they worked great. I used a PDA for remote control and the only drawback was that you couldn't address different zones via Apple's interface to iTunes. I'm presuming this has been resolved with their new support (here's hoping).


After I sold my Sonos system I purchased an Apple TV (mainly for music) and it worked great once the firmware allowed you to control the Apple TV via iTunes. I rented a few HD movies, viewed YouTube and watched a few Podcasts but in the end all I really used it for was music. So I ended up selling the Apple TV and getting the newer Airport Express (supports N-wireless).


If you are buying into iTunes I think it's a great solution. Sonos offers a model with a built-in amp which gives it many advantages (among others) and the Duet (along with Sonos) offers music streaming services (at least easier and or better options).


As a bonus you can use the Airport Express as a wireless access point with its one LAN port (you can with Sonos too). I connect my TiVo HD to my network via its LAN port.

 

[sean_w_smith]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R /forum/post/14264460


You can also use Airport Express (one or several) if you only want audio ($88 at Best Buy).


Before I purchased a Sonos system I used two Airport Expresses and they worked great. I used a PDA for remote control and the only drawback was that you couldn't address different zones via Apple's interface to iTunes. I'm presuming this has been resolved with their new support (here's hoping).


After I sold my Sonos system I purchased an Apple TV (mainly for music) and it worked great once the firmware allowed you to control the Apple TV via iTunes. I rented a few HD movies, viewed YouTube and watched a few Podcasts but in the end all I really used it for was music. So I ended up selling the Apple TV and getting the newer Airport Express (supports N-wireless).


If you are buying into iTunes I think it's a great solution. Sonos offers a model with a built-in amp which gives it many advantages (among others) and the Duet (along with Sonos) offers music streaming services (at least easier and or better options).


As a bonus you can use the Airport Express as a wireless access point with its one LAN port (you can with Sonos too). I connect my TiVo HD to my network via its LAN port.

owning 3 air port expresses I will comment on a few things...


1. their range is not great. although about the same as the SB3 tested in indentical setup. (compared to a buffalo wireless ethernet bridge for example)

2. unlike the SB3 I can't figure out how to stream audio to them using ethernet versus wifi which is easy with the SB3. ( I am a professional computer engineer with a networking background)

3. The airport locks you into to itunes and the formats it supports where as the SB3, sonos, etc give you more choices....


There are work arounds to 3 with a plugin for media monkey (but no cool itouch remote etc) and some other solutions which degrade the SQ but again no cool itouch remote...


Sean

 

[Charles R]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_w_smith /forum/post/14272410



1. their range is not great. although about the same as the SB3 tested in indentical setup. (compared to a buffalo wireless ethernet bridge for example)

2. unlike the SB3 I can't figure out how to stream audio to them using ethernet versus wifi which is easy with the SB3. ( I am a professional computer engineer with a networking background)

3. The airport locks you into to itunes and the formats it supports where as the SB3, sonos, etc give you more choices....

1. Have you tried the new wireless N version?

2. Why would I want wired when they work perfect with my Time Capsule?

3. Very true. However at one time or another I used the other two and still used Apple's lossless and iTunes.

 

[sean_w_smith]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R /forum/post/14276957


1. Have you tried the new wireless N version?

2. Why would I want wired when they work perfect with my Time Capsule?

3. Very true. However at one time or another I used the other two and still used Apple's lossless and iTunes.

1. nope

2. because the range on the G is not very good and I have Gig-E everywhere in my house and this would rectify my biggest complaint with airport expresses....


The thing you have to be careful of with apple is you have to use it the way they want to use it as with #2 when there is no reason the HW and SW could offer more choices as other products do. The airport overall is not a bad product for people who use itunes if you get over the range issue. (read range as competing products like buffalo have much better range).


Sean

 

[mastermaybe]

I own an apple tv and think this "touch" option of control could be nothing short of revolutionaryto be perfectly honest. By far the weakest link in the appletv chain is the oversimplified remote (yeah the codec thing sucks for sum 2!) which is terribly cumbersome to conduct searches, and really to navigate altogether.


this could be something really big.

 

[macintoshse]

Just a FYI I just got a Apple TV at Sams for $179.99 last week

 

[Jonnio]

They are really two different animals. If your only ever going to do a single location then you might be fine either way, but here are some big differences.


1) You have no options other than itunes


2) You only get 1 stream throughout the house, so you can't have one song playing in the bedroom and another in the living room.


3) The computer serving itunes can only play what is playing in the stream.


These were the deal breakers for me. I want a whole house audio solution, not just a digital "radio station" that each room can tune into if they want.

 

[mastermaybe]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnio /forum/post/14293962


They are really two different animals. If your only ever going to do a single location then you might be fine either way, but here are some big differences.


1) You have no options other than itunes


2) You only get 1 stream throughout the house, so you can't have one song playing in the bedroom and another in the living room.


3) The computer serving itunes can only play what is playing in the stream.


These were the deal breakers for me. I want a whole house audio solution, not just a digital "radio station" that each room can tune into if they want.

True. I for one just want it (iphone) to manipulate my appletv which I play throughout my house...or just ONE area. I do not have the need to play different music in different parts of my house...although that could be a very viable option for some. Besides, I can still accomplish this if need be through my 3 zone onkyo 805, sat radio, cd player, and d-tv.


For instance...I like to listen to my a-tv on my deck while my fiance watches tv in the living room. The idea that I could manipulate my appletv with this device 100ft away gets me as giddy as a school girl- searching for artist, song and album info with a keypad is impossible to overrate..


Everything I own (media-wise!) is in itunes because I feel it's still the most user-friendly, comprehensive music player around, so it matters not to me that other apps are not available.


Again, like the a-tv itself, this device will be ungodly for those comfortable operating within the apple world and completely disinteresting to those who can't bear the thought.


Personally, I am jacked for this.


James

 

[Charles R]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonnio /forum/post/14293962


2) You only get 1 stream throughout the house, so you can't have one song playing in the bedroom and another in the living room.

For others reading you can however create a group of zones and stream the same content to each zone (Apple TV or Airport Express) via the Multiple Speakers feature.

 

[mastermaybe]

just so anyone who cares is aware, I have designs on picking up an iphone asap, and I will report back as to its "usability" with the appletv immediately. I've heard wait times for the phones r currently pushing a month though, so don't expect anything real soon

.


james

 

[sean_w_smith]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R /forum/post/14295049


For others reading you can however create a group of zones and stream the same content to each zone (Apple TV or Airport Express) via the Multiple Speakers feature.

Can you explain how....


If I have 4 airports.


How do I play 1 song to airports 1 and 2 and another song to 3 and 4 from itunes? I know how multiple speakers works but dont know how to make this work.....


Sean

 

[Charles R]



Quote:
Originally Posted by sean_w_smith /forum/post/14311000


How do I play 1 song to airports 1 and 2 and another song to 3 and 4 from itunes? I know how multiple speakers works but dont know how to make this work.....

You can't.

What I meant was you can group different Airport Extremes together so they all play the same song. One stream per iTunes. If you really wanted two streams you would have to have two iTunes servers running... certainly not ideal.


However Apple TV can play its own music stored locally or on the network (using the Apple TV's interface not iTunes)... so if you had two of them they would be completely independent.

 

[sean_w_smith]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R /forum/post/14312138


You can't.

What I meant was you can group different Airport Extremes together so they all play the same song. One stream per iTunes. If you really wanted two streams you would have to have two iTunes servers running... certainly not ideal.


However Apple TV can play its own music stored locally or on the network (using the Apple TV's interface not iTunes)... so if you had two of them they would be completely independent.

Sure thats like xboxes.... but not multizone. Actually running two itunes servers on 2 different machines doesn't work with multiple speakers either. I already tried that.... So there is 1 zone with selectable speakers using the airports which is not bad but its not a sonos or duet either...


Can't wait to try the iphone remote...


Sean

 

[dbryso]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles R /forum/post/14295049


For others reading you can however create a group of zones and stream the same content to each zone (Apple TV or Airport Express) via the Multiple Speakers feature.

Try This....

http://www.rogueamoeba.com/airfoil/

 

[sean_w_smith]



Quote:
Originally Posted by dbryso /forum/post/14315276


Try This....

http://www.rogueamoeba.com/airfoil/

This really doesn't change the default behavior any except it allows other programs to stream to the airport expresses. Because of the way it interacts with directsound it may/will modify the bitstream. It never sounded quite right to me. There is another application that works with media monkey that works better for what I want to do but neither of these solve my biggest gripes with the airports....


Sean

 

[mastermaybe]

I finally picked up an iphone...I will be reporting back as to it's performance in conjuction with a-tv as soon as att gets off their collective asses and gets my i-net in order...by Thursday now- they promise!!! (although they have given me about $160 in credit due to 2 weeks of i-net loss).


Perhaps it's own thread depending on popularity? While I don't think it will be the 6 zone solution that some are looking for anytime soon, there are qualities about it that can't be ignored for around $500.


James

 

[mastermaybe]

In all seriousness...is there really a considerable market for this 3, 4, and 5 zone business? I mean, right now, the way I'm set-up, someone could watch tv, a movie or listen to a cd, the radio, or itunes in one area and do one of the latter in another- that seems to work out great in my parts.


But of course I'm kid-less!


The idea of having itunes playing 3-4 DIFFERENT files while retaining individual manipulation seems like a lot to ask to me.


I dunno.


James

 

[cubesys]

I am using the airport in the house and it works really well. as a remote, the interface blows away any other interface. for me, the itunes integration was a plus not a minus as I already have the ipod in the house. it is very stable and a slick setup. if you use it for multiple rooms, its more cost effective as well.