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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The LT/1300 amp in my big dual 13 elemental designs sub died. There is a guy on the elemental designs thread that can try and repair the amp, but I also want to investigate a standalone amp solution. Something 1500-2500 watt range I guess, the other one was 1300 watts. I am thinking a fan wouldn't be too bad if it is quiet, there is a home theater computer in the room and it has a fan but really quiet. I am also thinking in retrospect that two or more subs with one driver is a better idea for future upgrades, the dual 13 is a hassle to move etc.
 

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The Crown XLS series is very quiet, using for subs at the moment but rolls off below 20hz so depending on your extension needs may not be the best. If you need dsp, the iNuke 3000 and 6000 DSP models are pretty popular with the DIY sub crowd. You'll get more info in the DIY subforum on this subject, too.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks to both of you for the info, I have both in my cart at Amazon, roll off at 20 Hz doesn't sound too good though (or maybe I wouldn't even notice), I am not sure what this eD sub was rated at with the LT/1300 amp. Both these are class D amp designs, thinking they would have similar low frequency limitations? This sub is in the family room where I watch movies, I have another system in the living room where I just have a pair of Legacy Focus SE and no sub and that is just for music at the moment although a pair of SVS PB-13 Ultras in gloss black would look nice in there.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005EHINIK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003HZV2OI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AV80KMVI6ZWQL
 

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I did not think the XLS rolled off below 20 Hz but Crown does not spec the frequency response below that. IIRC the -3 dB point was around 5 or 10 Hz when I measured one a few years ago; seems like there's a review online (Google). The built-in crossover is nice, and my experience with Crown has been that they are quieter and more reliable than Behringer BUT I have not used Behringer amp in several years. Behringer certainly seems popular here on AVS. I actually prefer the Crown XTI series but they cost more.

My experience with Crest (in commercial installations) has been noisy amps and poor reliability. Perhaps I just had a few bad amps, and I have not used them in the past few years, so perhaps they have improved.

Commercial amplifiers often have higher sensitivity ratings than consumer amplifiers so check the output of your AVR.

FWIWFM - Don
 

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Thanks to both of you for the info, I have both in my cart at Amazon, roll off at 20 Hz doesn't sound too good though (or maybe I wouldn't even notice), I am not sure what this eD sub was rated at with the LT/1300 amp. Both these are class D amp designs, thinking they would have similar low frequency limitations? This sub is in the family room where I watch movies, I have another system in the living room where I just have a pair of Legacy Focus SE and no sub and that is just for music at the moment although a pair of SVS PB-13 Ultras in gloss black would look nice in there.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005EHINIK/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003HZV2OI/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=AV80KMVI6ZWQL
The Behringer seems to have better specs below 20hz. Don't know the specs on that eD sub/amp, but I bet member daveds50 does (he is a member here, probably same guy you referred to, used to do the repair work on eD subs and still does but believe he's in the middle of a commercial contract or something at this time...try pm'g him). Just because they're both class D doesn't mean a lot. Something tells me if you don't know about the sub 20hz content reproduction for your sub that it probably won't matter to you much.

ps Some sub amps have boost built in for the low end, too...don't know about the eD amps but that's where an amp with built in dsp eq can help replicate the original setup....the Crown has some dsp, but not eq.
 

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I did not think the XLS rolled off below 20 Hz but Crown does not spec the frequency response below that. IIRC the -3 dB point was around 5 or 10 Hz when I measured one a few years ago; seems like there's a review online (Google). The built-in crossover is nice, and my experience with Crown has been that they are quieter and more reliable than Behringer BUT I have not used Behringer amp in several years. Behringer certainly seems popular here on AVS. I actually prefer the Crown XTI series but they cost more.

My experience with Crest (in commercial installations) has been noisy amps and poor reliability. Perhaps I just had a few bad amps, and I have not used them in the past few years, so perhaps they have improved.

Commercial amplifiers often have higher sensitivity ratings than consumer amplifiers so check the output of your AVR.

FWIWFM - Don
I've seen it mentioned several times regarding the roll off (12db/octave I believe has been mentioned a few times). I haven't seen a definitive test for this but a few claim to have been provided this info by Crown. I'd love to see something definitive on this.

ps This is the only bench test I've found for the XLS Drivecore amps (a 2500) but it doesn't help http://www.prosoundnetwork.com/article/crown-xls-2500-and-peavey-ipr-1600/11870#
 

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lovinthehd
Was looking at your sub build thread and noticed all the mtn bikes in the garage, that is one of my main hobbies here in the Front Range of CO. Went out after work yesterday in fact.
Several of those bikes have seen time in Colorado....have spent quite a bit of time in Crested Butte, Salida, Durango, many sections of the Colorado Trail and ski resort summer riding. Love it out there!
 

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Expecting 4" - 8" of snow at my place tomorrow, bike's in the garage (where it stays mostly anyway, never seem to have time anymore).

Regarding the Crown XLS series, I am not terribly familiar with them so I asked Crown. This is the response from Crown support:

Don,

I don’t know exactly what the -3dB frequency is but I know it rolls off pretty steep at 20 Hz and you would get next to nothing out of it at 10 Hz. The roll off at 20 Hz is 24 dB/octave so 3 dB down should be roughly 18 Hz.

Regards,
So indeed they do roll off rapidly below 20 Hz. I am surprised, though in hindsight should not have been. A lot of pro amps roll off subsonics to avoid big thumps and wasted headroom.
 

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Expecting 4" - 8" of snow at my place tomorrow, bike's in the garage (where it stays mostly anyway, never seem to have time anymore).

Regarding the Crown XLS series, I am not terribly familiar with them so I asked Crown. This is the response from Crown support:



So indeed they do roll off rapidly below 20 Hz. I am surprised, though in hindsight should not have been. A lot of pro amps roll off subsonics to avoid big thumps and wasted headroom.
Thanks for the closure. When I get around to it will put a more suitable sub amp on my two SI18's, one that can take advantage of their capabilities better than the XLS1500.

They now have these wonderful fat bikes for the snow that I've yet to try but are hugely popular now....hope you get out soon in any case. Myself am off the bikes altogether due very sore knees after a few hard rides on my road bike after 6 months of not doing so...getting old sucks.
 

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Felt compelled to join the "Colorado Thread".

I'm using two Crown XLS2000's mono bridged to drive two SI HST-18's in sealed boxes and I am definitely not seeing a 24dB/octave roll-off below 20 Hz. I'm pretty flat down to 10 Hz.

Of course, there is room gain, but I'm happy with those amps driving my subs.

Using them with an XMC-1 and a miniDSP.
 

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OK, thanks. So now I'm still confused.
LOL. Me, too. I've read long threads on the Crowns and have seen all the claims that they roll off below 20Hz, but frankly, I've never seen the data.

In my case, the data is not telling any lies. On top of the supposed 24dB/octave rolloff of the amp, I also should have 12dB/octave of rolloff due to the sealed subs.

So all that I can say is that a) I must have some serious room gain, and b) in my system the Crown amps work well for the subs.
 

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I went straight to Crown and that was their response. Maybe he (Crown tech) was thinking of the crossover filter? In the primordial past when I had a number of Crown amps they all had flat response well below 20 Hz. I do not have any to measure at the moment (and my current workplace does not have audio-frequency test gear, unlike my last place, argh).
 

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The answer I posted was an email from Crown tech support. Guess we'll see if we get the same answer twice...
 
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