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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
When will we see a standard digital interface between DVD-audio players and receivers? There are proprietary digital interfaces now, but when will we see a standard digital interface, that works across different brands?


Thanks!


Will
 

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Many companies are too scared this will make bit for bit copies of the new digital forms too easy. They are missing on purpose, not because of an oversight. The hardware manufactures love the proprietary ones because they force people to buy more of the products. And the media companies like it because it means their stuff can't get copied and the hardware companies are playing nice with them.
 

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The Pioneer 1394 interface uses fully open and standard

1394 protocols. Any manufacturer can build equipment

that will interoperate with the Pioneer 1394 digital

interface.


1394 audio also uses 5C/DTCP encryption. Right now, 5C

is probably the most sophisticated and most difficult

to break encryption technology available for consumer

electronics.


In the SACD 1.3 specification (Scarlet Book), an allowable

digital interface must use 5C/DTCP. Since 1394

is the only current interface that employs 5C/DTCP, it

can be said that 1394 is the only allowable digital

interface for SACD.



The standard digital audio interface is here now.


BTW, IEEE1394, Firewire and i.Link are all the same thing.

Firewire was invented by Apple (not Sony or Texas Instruments).

Although the Pioneer gear uses a Texas Instruments 1394

chip, there's nothing special about the chip. It's just

a new version of an older chip that has an integrated PHY

and has added the new 8-byte cipher length for 5C encrypted

1394 audio.


Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
The Pioneer 1394 interface uses fully open and standard 1394 protocols. Any manufacturer can build equipment that will interoperate with the Pioneer 1394 digital interface.
I'm confused. Is the Pioneer interface considered proprietary or is it an industry standard? Can I buy a current Denon or Onkyo or Toshiba or Yamaha product and have it interoperate with the Pioneer digital interface, for DVD-A?
 

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The Pioneer iLink is standard and approved by the DVD Forum (it's IEEE1394), at the moment Pioneer is the only one with it.


But there is another I/F that will soon be standardized: HDMI. The iLink (aka IEEE1394) has limitations, it cannot pass uncompressed high-resolution video signal on top of high-rez audio, HDMI can (see www.hdmi.com ), it is plan that HDMI will come on the market next year (Tag McLaren at least plans to support it between DVD-Player and pre/pro with video processor).


Michel
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Even though iLink and HDMI are standards, nothing interoperates between manufacturers yet. When will three different manufacturers have products using the same digital interface so a DVD-A player from one manufacturer can interoperate with a receiver from a second manufacturer or a pre/pro from a third, by sending DVD-A signals digitally through an industry standard interface? Thanks again!
 

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I hope it doesn't happen any time soon... I just got all this new stuff and I can't afford to replace it all yet. :)
 

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Kabillyhop,

"I hope it doesn't happen any time soon... I just got all this new stuff and I can't afford to replace it all yet."


If you are talking about your newly purchased Anthem AVM-20, you may be in luck. It appears that Anthem has been working on the IEEE1394 interface for the AVM-20, although there is no set date for its release (much like the digital standard itself!). There is a cutout on the back panel of the AVM-20 that will accept the IEEE1394 connector. So, it may be a matter of paying for an upgrade to the AVM-20 to get this interface, something on the order of $200-$500 would be my guess.


Michael
 

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Thanks Michael. If Firewire becomes the standard then I guess all we'll need is the AVM upgrade and new DVD players. It will never end...
 

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"Thanks Michael. If Firewire becomes the standard then I guess all we'll need is the AVM upgrade and new DVD players. It will never end..."


The cynic in me thinks that's part of the plan. Make it so you HAVE to upgrade, kind of like the PC world. Bloated software requires faster and bigger hardware, etc. At least I was able to upgrade our AVM-20 once after owning it for 6 months from version 1.x to version 2.x. If I can get an additional upgrade to Firewire, I will have really gotten my money's worth out of this processor.


It won't be quite so bad for us to have to upgrade. Our DVD player is over 3 years old, and our 9 years old 35" tube TV is starting to lose its tuner. If we can just hold out a little longer for some standard to be agreed upon, we can pull the trigger on some new DVD and TV purchases.


Michael
 

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And for the time being, while you wait to recover your investment in existing gear and for the prices of 1394-equipped gear to come down, the present DVD-A and SACD players are getting cheaper and they will be perfectly usable for years through their analog connections.


Tom B.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by mfombellida
The Pioneer iLink is standard and approved by the DVD Forum (it's IEEE1394), at the moment Pioneer is the only one with it.


But there is another I/F that will soon be standardized: HDMI. The iLink (aka IEEE1394) has limitations, it cannot pass uncompressed high-resolution video signal on top of high-rez audio, HDMI can (see www.hdmi.com ), it is plan that HDMI will come on the market next year (Tag McLaren at least plans to support it between DVD-Player and pre/pro with video processor).


Michel
There is no need for 1394 to pass uncompressed HD signal. It can do it all just fine compressed like everything else. It starts compressed from the source.
 

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Only Hollywood security paranoid lobbyists care about transmitting the signal uncompressed. The HDMI initiative is trying to market uncompressed video as an advantage. I know of no advantage to the consumer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Now I'm confused again. Is there a standard digital interface between DVD-A players and receivers and pre/pro's, or not? If there really is a standard, how come nobody's DVD-A player generates a digital signal that interoperates with any other vendor's pre/pro or receiver?
 

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Will,


From what I've read so far about Pioneer's digital interface, they are using off-the-shelf technology from Texas Instruments. Pioneer is probably the first to use it, so it's not an industry standard in any way. However, it does differ from proprietary schemes (that have been used so far) in at least one important way: there is nothing to stop other manufacturers from licensing the TI technology, allowing consumers to mix and match players and receivers/pre-pros from different brands.


Best,

Sanjay
 

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Quote:
there is nothing to stop other manufacturers from

licensing the TI technology
TI has nothing to do with it. All TI has done is build

a chip that implements all the required industry

standard
protocols and 5C cipher for encrypted 1394

audio.


There's other 1394 Link Layer Controllers capable of

1394 audio. In fact, the LLC that I'm developing can

do 1394 audio right now. If you came to my lab tomorrow,

I could give you a demo of my chip receiving audio from

the DV-47Ai.


Ron
 

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Quote:
I might have missed something in that Audio Revolution news item, but it doesn't seem to contain any information that wasn't out A YEAR AGO. The article starts by saying "One of the biggest hurdles in the development of DVD-Audio was overcome in September, when the DVD Forum adopted FireWire as the digital transmission method for the DVD-Audio format." Yeah, that happened in "September" alright; September of 2001!!!


You can read the High Fidelity Review news story from December 2001, as well as the follow-up . We even discussed this in a thread right here at AVS near the end of last year.


So, does the Audio Revolution news item have something new to add to the above information?


Best,

Sanjay
 

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Ron,
Quote:
TI has nothing to do with it.
The iceLynx Micro interface that Pioneer uses is TI's Firewire solution. See this article .
Quote:
There's other 1394 Link Layer Controllers capable of 1394 audio.
Do you know of any consumer electronic manufacturers that are using non-proprietary Firewire solutions from someone besides TI?


Best,

Sanjay
 
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