[mre]

My 27" TV just isn't cutting it anymore. I'm moving into a new apartment shortly and am looking to create the best HT setup ideal for my living space. I've always been impressed by the plasma TVs and figure they'd be the perfect size for my 1bdr apartment.


I've heard both good and bad things about plasma TVs, but I don't know enough to seperate myth from fact. With such an expensive price tag, I'd like to be certain before handing over so much cash.


I'm looking to keep my budget on my entire HT setup as reasonable as possible without sacrificing too much in quality. I'm sure plasma TVs fall under the "You get what you pay for" saying, so I'd rather wait and save more money to get a better quality screen that won't cause headaches down the road. I like the larger sized plasmas (+42"). Anyone have recommendations for a plasma TV suitable for a small viewing area. Best bang for the buck is a plus, but quality over quantity.


Also, what are the key specs to look for when reviewing plasma TVs. Any direction on where to start learning a bit more on my own. How do plasma TVs compare to others? Am I better off going another route (projector? mid-sized, like the Phillips Cineos?)


Thanks.

 

[Rhob]

mre -


A few things come to my mind -


1. I lurked here for about 6+ months, reading all the threads, informing myself so I could make a decision on a plasma. I knew that I wanted either Plasma, LCD or DLP, and this forum helped a great amount in making my decision.


2. In the end, I don't think the specifications are all that important, especially regarding the contrast ratio. it seems that different glass has different specifications, that may actually be very similar. For example, the Fujitsu 42" plasma is 900-1, while the 50" plasma is 3000 - 1. I think the owners would say that they look about the same regarding black levels.


3. You need to go look at a B&M to really make your decision. I went around and around on which brand to go with before I ever saw one in action (Panasonic -> NEC -> Fujitsu -> Panasonic, and then finally settled on a Pioneer that I'm very pleased with. Even the wife has said "Wow, that picture is awesome.")


4. By far the most popular gear here is the commercial Panasonic models. They have a 37" version that might work well depending on your viewing distance. Check out the Panasonic website, or the brand FAQ at the top of this forum.


Hope this was helpful.


Thx!


rb

 

[R Harkness]

Quote:

Originally posted by Rhob 2. In the end, I don't think the specifications are all that important, especially regarding the contrast ratio. it seems that different glass has different specifications, that may actually be very similar. For example, the Fujitsu 42" plasma is 900-1, while the 50" plasma is 3000 - 1. I think the owners would say that they look about the same regarding black levels.

Which Fujitsu 42" is specified as 900-1? The ALIS-based model or the ED model using the Panasonic glass? If it's the latest ED Fujitsu then I believe the specs are mostly the same as the 50" model (which would be grabbing Panasonic's numbers, which are either 3000:1 or 4000:1 for the latest Panasonic ED plasmas).


If it's the Fujitsu 42" that uses Fujitsu glass (ALIS model), then there is indeed a significant, visible difference in black levels between it and the 50" model, with the 50" model having decidedly better black levels. In which case, as much as manufacturers may have their own idiosyncratic ways of arriving at contrast specs, the 900-1 spec for the ALIS model vs the 3000-1 spec for the 50" model at least reflects some truth about the noticeably better contrast of the 50" model. Each uses a different glass, and the specs reflect that they have visibly different performance in regards to contrast.

 

[Picus_H]

mre - I think before we can really answer your questions we need to know a little bit more about how you intend to use your TV. It's impossible to say whether you would be better of with an LCD or FP for example, because we don't know how you'll be using the display, what kind of room it will be in, etc...


For example, if all you do all day long is play video games on your display, a plasma might not be best for you.


Also, are there any particular myths or facts you're wondering about? Let us know and we'll let you know.

 

[Rhob]

Quote:

Originally posted by R Harkness In which case, as much as manufacturers may have their own idiosyncratic ways of arriving at contrast specs, the 900-1 spec for the ALIS model vs the 3000-1 spec for the 50" model at least reflects some truth about the noticeably better contrast of the 50" model. Each uses a different glass, and the specs reflect that they have visibly different performance in regards to contrast.

Maybe I got the wrong brand or brands, but the quoted part above is what I was trying to get across...


rb

 

[Felgar]

I think most people would agree that the 50" Panasonic, Fujitsu, or Pioneer panels are currently the "best" TV available. The extra 8" makes an enourmous difference, and the panel has enough resolution (both vertical and horizontal) to get the most out of HD content. The extra resolution helps for PC use too.


Having said that we do need more info. Can you afford to drop 5K on a TV? Do you even have any good HD sources? Is PC use or even console video games a priority?


FWIW, the only display I'd consider getting instead of a plasma would be a FP - and the decision would be based on whether I was trying to build a theatre in my home, or whether I was trying to make the best TV room I could. They are sort of fundamentally different in my mind - controlled lighting being one of the main concerns in a Home Theatre / FP application.

 

[BruZZi]

Quote:

Which Fujitsu 42" is specified as 900-1? The ALIS-based model or the ED model using the Panasonic glass?

It's actually 1000:1 - That's the Fujitsu P42HHA30WS (Alis)

 

[mre]

Quote:

3. You need to go look at a B&M to really make your decision. I went around and around on which brand to go with before I ever saw one in action (Panasonic -> NEC -> Fujitsu -> Panasonic, and then finally settled on a Pioneer that I'm very pleased with. Even the wife has said "Wow, that picture is awesome.") 4. By far the most popular gear here is the commercial Panasonic models. They have a 37" version that might work well depending on your viewing distance. Check out the Panasonic website, or the brand FAQ at the top of this forum.

First off, to show just how little I know about this topic and how much I have yet to learn, what's a B&M? I'll take a look at the Panasonic models. A 37" might work well, but I was looking to go atleast +42". My viewing distance at this point will be minimal. I'll be in a small 1bdr apartment. The viewing distance will probably be anywhere between 6' and 10'.


Black levels, ALIS-based, contrast specs? I need to find a good source for HT jargon.

Quote:

mre - I think before we can really answer your questions we need to know a little bit more about how you intend to use your TV. It's impossible to say whether you would be better of with an LCD or FP for example, because we don't know how you'll be using the display, what kind of room it will be in, etc... For example, if all you do all day long is play video games on your display, a plasma might not be best for you. Also, are there any particular myths or facts you're wondering about? Let us know and we'll let you know.

I don't play many video games. At the current moment, I don't even own a gaming system other than my computer. Viewing DVDs and watching television will be the main use. The room I mentioned above, but it will be in a small 1bdr apartment, so my viewing distance will be minimal. Is there an ideal viewing distance?


I guess they aren't really myths, rather people questioning plasma TVs and their expensive price tags. New technology, give it more time. Too expensive, buy a larger projection TV instead. Heavy repair tag, if repairable at all, when broken. Quality decreases greatly over time. Things along those lines.

Quote:

Having said that we do need more info. Can you afford to drop 5K on a TV? Do you even have any good HD sources? Is PC use or even console video games a priority?

Yes, I could afford to drop 5k on a TV. I could put that money to use elsewhere as well, but I don't mind dropping extra money for a quality product. I do not currently have any HD sources, but am interested in the technology. PC use...no. Game use...no.


Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Ross in Toronto]

mre,


B&M = "Brick & Mortar". Internet speak for an "old economy" store as opposed to Amazon, Dell et. all who don't have a physical store.


I agree with Rhob. You should learn as much as you can stand about the different technologies (their strengths, weaknesses, etc.) and check out some B&M's to lay eyes on different displays. That's what I did for several weeks (with Mrs. Ross in Toronto) before making the plunge.


If you spend a few weeks on this forum (like I did when first looking for a plasma), you'll be amazed how quickly you'll know know more than many salespeople in the non-specialty shops. Comes in handy when it comes time to cought up the dough -- you'll have a better sense if you're dealing with someone who actually knows their stuff.


Ross

 

[KostyaNP]

B&M - brick and mortar. Retail shop, as opposite to online shop.

...Black levels, ALIS-based, contrast specs? I need to find a good source for HT jargon.



I'd say your more urgent need is to llok at different types of displays, to see the difference by yourself. And decide your viewing distance - there is no ideal one.



New technology, give it more time.


False. It's only new to mainstream.



Too expensive, buy a larger projection TV instead.


True if you are comfortable with the projection TV (any type) unstable picture.



Heavy repair tag, if repairable at all, when broken.


True.



Quality decreases greatly over time.


False.

 

[Picus_H]

OK mre, I think a plasma will suit you. Question - exact how far is your minimal viewing distance? There are a few different kinds of plasmas and one of the distinctions are the amount of pixels each has. Many people here own ED panels (meaning they have less pixels than a HD panel) - they are less expensive and look great from 6+ feet away - any less and you might see the pixels. Search for "Screen Door" and you will see what I mean. Either way like everyone has mentioned, go to a B&M and see what looks good to you. People here seem to like the Panasonics, Fujitsu's, Sonys, and Pioneers.

 

[genietime]

"B&M" = Brick and Mortar AKA a non-internet store (Best Buy, Sears, Circuit City, Magnolia, Tweeter, etc). Do keep in mind though that most B&Ms have displays that are not set up optimally, especially non A/V specialty stores.


Based on your last post with no PC or gaming use, if I were you I'd go with a 42" ED Panasonic (these are the cheaper 42" Panasonic models) which will cost you wayyyy less than $5k (obviously you must shop around for the best prices). With the extra money you could buy a new receiver, speakers and a DVD player to complete your home theater. DLPs offer excellent value (IMO) for larger (e.g. 50"+) sets, where plasmas dramatically increase in price but since you are a smaller apartment dweller (6' is a bit close for a 50+" display in my opinion), I'd go with a plasma. They also have the "flat" TV cool factor and you can even wall mount your TV (again great for limited space situations).


The Panasonic ED plasmas offer excellent value for the money and arguably the best black levels. Most of the plasma myths you've heard about are either false, overblown, or outdated (e.g. very short lifetimes, excessive burn-in risks (unlikely if used sensibly), very unreliable, etc.). Since you are new to "serious" HT, I'd not buy at your budget limit, you can get everything you want for significantly less for $5k. If you end up geeking out on HT later, you can always move your old display to the bedroom .


All of the information you're seeking is here at the various forums. While you are looking at various displays read up here as well and I think you'll find most of your questions answered.

 

[KostyaNP]

Oh, I've missed that you have mentioned the budget. With this budget I would undoubtely recommend (in case you decide to go plasma way, of course) the Panasonic TH-50PHD6UY. It's probably the only good brand 50-incher which will (almost?) fit the budget, and IMO it worth every penny of it. Resolution (all 50-inchers are HD, High-Definition, meaning higher pixel count as oposite to ED), IMHO, does not matter that much for your vieweing pattern, but size does. Don't think 42" would be big enough, I've made that mistake. It only looks big first month or so... and now I wish I would sprung for 50"... Dammit, Janet!

 

[Woodrow]

Are you positive you don't have ANY HD available to you...even, over-the-air HD?


Are you outside the U.S.?

 

[wblynch]

MRE, get a 42" plasma. It will be perfect for your apartment. And because it lies nearly flat against the wall, you will gain more precious space that would otherwise be occupied by some huge black box.


Get an HD, don't wast time with ED. HD prices are getting lower everyday and with the new dvd players and more available hdtv content you will be glad you got HD.


Plus, the screen door on the ED sets will drive you nuts at that distance (6-10 ft).


I recommend you explore NEC. NEC is a highly respected digital monitor producer that makes top tier plasmas. NEC are hard to find but they are superb. (the teen clothing stores in the malls usually have NEC plasmas for their displays).

 

[Picus_H]

If he's 8-10 feet away the ED would be fine, any less and HD is a better option. That said, with his budget I'd definitely look at a 50 inch set like the Panny 50PHD6UY. I always have a hard time recommending 42 inch HD's, but to each their own.

 

[Woodrow]

I was asking about HD availability for either the HD or ED panel.


It would look great on either.


I figure unless he's outside the U.S., something HAS to be available in one form or another. I would hope anyway.

 

[Felgar]

Well we can't come to a consensus on the panel - but to a man we all agree that no matter what panel you get, definately put an HD source (be it DTV, Cable, or whatever) on your immediate short list. The plasmas look great on DVD but when you see HD material on a plasma that's set up correctly it will literally blow your mind - you'll be openned up to a whole new world of TV.


To really see what these can do, definately go to a higher-end shop that has dedicated rooms for their displays. While losing the ability to compare side-by-side, they will hopefully be set up right with a good HD source so that you can see what these sets are capable of.


FYI: The 42" ED panels are about 2500 and have a resolution of 852x480 - very close to DVD resolution. As pointed out, these have issues with being able to discern pixel when sitting less than about 7' away. The 42" ED panels fall in the 3700 range and are 1024x768 resolution. This has the vertical resolution of 720p HD material but falls a hair short in the horizontal (720p being 1280x720). Finally the 50" panels are typically 1366x768 resolution which will allow for bettter detail to be shown, and less pixel stucture noticed regardless of seating distance. 7' from a 50" panel is mighty close, but it certainly will give you an amazing big screen feel.


I've always been in the camp that the 42" HD panels are kind of in no-man's land. They don't quite have the full resolution and size of a 50", but yet you pay a pretty hefty price to step up in resolution from an ED panel. And many of us with ED panels are very happy with HD sources on them regardless of them not truly having enough resolution - somehow the plasmas manage to exceed what you'd think is possibly with ED resolution.


Go sit close to a 50" panel and see how you like it. I'm also one who is envious of the 50" panels but when I bought my 42" ED it was about the same price as a 50" now - a little more even.


Oh, 2 more things. Black level refers to the set's ability to show deep black. If black level is poor the darkest image will be grey (like you'll always get with a projector system) but with good black levels the dark areas are deep and black. Pioneer sets have a little worse black levels than Panasonic or Fujitsu, so go compare those to see how important black levels are for you.


Alis panels are interlaced (display alternating odd and even lines to form a picture like normal TVs do, as opposed to showing the whole picture in a single pass like computer monitors and most other plasmas). The have almost perfect HD resolution for 1080i HD material with an interlaced res of 1024x1024. But generally for DVD, 720p, TV the Alis panels are a step down from the Panasonic, Pioneer, and Fujitsu non-Alis panels IMO.

 

[Picus_H]

Oh, I wasn't questioning the HD source thing. It's worth trying all your options to get it. Discovery HD all the way, baby.

 

[genietime]

If I had $5000 (and you might need a tad bit more, unless you get a real deal) to spend I definitely get a 50" HD 1366x768 plasma (ooohhh, just the thought... )


That said though. Given that I'm not sure how much $5k is to him + if he really is a major HT geek like most of us on this forum are + unsure of his HD content availability, I think a very good ED Panny plasma at $2500 would fit the bill quite nicely. Are you the type who likes to "test the waters" or "jump into the deep end"?


Mre: Ask yourself the following:


Would you rather spend $2500 for a really good HT experience, or would you rather spend $5000 for a killer HT experience?


Also where you're concerned the viewing distance and personal perception play a big part in your decision.


I mean for some people, 6' and a 50" panel is too close, but at 10' I think most would agree go for 50" rather than 42".


Figure out where you will put your display and figure out the viewing distance (6', 10' or something in between) I would recommend a tape measure to a higher end AV store and look at your options at the viewing distance you will have in your apartment.


I know this is heresy to say this on this forum, but it you decide that you want a 50" display, and can live without wall mounting, check out the DLPs too. You can get a 50" Samsung DLP at really good prices right now (