[Vikster]

I just got royally scr*wed when I bought a Silverstone LC10M. The product, it turns out, is basically useless for HTPC as shipped.


Anyone who is the least bit serious about Home Theatre knows that a dark evironment is essential. I have a CRT projector for best image Q and have spent much time and money creating a good viewing room that is almost completely dark.


Like most reasonably advanced Home Theater users I have also gotten a nice universal remote that can handle all my products and is capable displaying user designed menus macros and such. Of course it is also backlit to that I can use it in my viewing room.


Now, the new iMON devices (wethered bundled with a case like Silverstone or not) can ONLY use the bundled iMON PAD remote. NO remote can learn its codes according to SoundGraph/iMON. The reason according to them is that a unique code (that they will not let their customers know the specs of) was needed for good mouse simulation.


For a Home Theatre user that is a step back into the dark ages.


First of all – having to have a low budget extra remote to be able to use your most common controls (like DVD controls) makes HT-people itch (especially the ones who have spent 2.000 on a top line device like a Pronto).


And to make matters worse – even if you could live with that (which I find very hard) – you still can’t use this product in a half decent Home Theater, since it is not lit in any way shape or form. It’s black…


Now I’m really in the **** since changing the VFD/remote in the system will be expensive and tricky. I just want EVERYONE who is even thinking about iMON, a Silverstone case or any other HTPC case that comes bundled with iMON to be aware of this.


SoundGraph says market research showed that non-HTPC users who are also important to them wanted better mouse function. My reply to that was that if their target customers weren’t HTPC-users like myself, they should probably stop using blown up catch phrases such as: “Universal IR Remote Control Device for Home Theatre PC†and “New Standard for Home Theater PC†all over their home page. They might also think about NOT bundling their products with dedicated HTPC cases like the Silverstone LC10M that I got. That would save their customers a lot of worries, time and money.


I suggested a clear disclaimer reading: “WILL ONLY WORK WITH BUNDLED NON-BACKLIT REMOTE - NOT FOR USE IN DARK ENVIRONMENTS SUCH AS HOME THEATRES!â€, instead.


I will now contact Silverstone and try to find out how they propose I should use this product in an HTPC environment.

 

[jman311]

Is this true of just the newest iMon products? I have the iMon RSC w/ VFD which was built into my Arisitec HT-400 case. While you can't use 3rd-party remote codes with the iMon, you should be able to teach the iMon codes to other remotes (I have my Pronto replicating the iMon buttons, including the mouse codes (?)).


Not to say that the iMon doesn't suck in other ways. I am using Girder with the iMon plugin, and am having issues with the power button standby/resume options (I painstakingly found a work-around, but still it's a problem).


Also, the iMon occassionally falsely interprets other remote codes from my other AV equipment as iMon codes even though the IR codes are quite different. Dunno what that's all about. I have been able to find work-arounds for my problems so far - but I also work on PCs for a living, so your average Joe would probably be relatively screwed and even more pissed off than I.


iMon/Soundgraph doesn't reply to my email inquiries either.


If anyone knows of another good remote receiver that can also power on/off your HTPC reliably, please let me know!

 

[vic4news]

I have the SilverStone LC10M with the imon/vfd and was able to learn the imon codes to my MX500 remote. I agree that the imon software isn't the greatest, but

I think you should be able to use any learning remote.


Vic

 

[vic4news]

I have the SilverStone LC10M with the imon/vfd and was able to teach the imon codes to my MX500 remote. I agree that the imon software isn't the greatest, but I think you should be able to use any learning remote.

 

[Cliff Watson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic4news I have the SilverStone LC10M with the imon/vfd and was able to teach the imon codes to my MX500 remote. I agree that the imon software isn't the greatest, but I think you should be able to use any learning remote.

Do you have the iMON PAD or the iMON RSC remote?

 

[vic4news]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Watson Do you have the iMON PAD or the iMON RSC remote?

I have the iMON PAD

 

[Vikster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by jman311 Is this true of just the newest iMon products? I have the iMon RSC w/ VFD which was built into my Arisitec HT-400 case. While you can't use 3rd-party remote codes with the iMon, you should be able to teach the iMon codes to other remotes (I have my Pronto replicating the iMon buttons, including the mouse codes (?)). Not to say that the iMon doesn't suck in other ways. I am using Girder with the iMon plugin, and am having issues with the power button standby/resume options (I painstakingly found a work-around, but still it's a problem). Also, the iMon occassionally falsely interprets other remote codes from my other AV equipment as iMon codes even though the IR codes are quite different. Dunno what that's all about. I have been able to find work-arounds for my problems so far - but I also work on PCs for a living, so your average Joe would probably be relatively screwed and even more pissed off than I. iMon/Soundgraph doesn't reply to my email inquiries either. If anyone knows of another good remote receiver that can also power on/off your HTPC reliably, please let me know!

This applies only to the new versions. And no according to the SoundGraph and all the users that have asked about this there is NO way of solving this and NO remote that can handle the new codes. Check out their iMON Q&A forum at http://www.soundgraph.com/bo/e_bo_1.asp?m1d=1&m2d=3 any number of people have asked about this (I last did without title so the topic is just …). If you are pissed about picking up other signals, how would you feel if you had to revert to a second remote with dark buttons that you had to guess in your Home Theatre. It is completely beyond me how anyone could release such a product as a HTPC gadget. How could you know so little about a market you are trying to serve? I’ve tried asking about changing to the old version of the IR receiver with an old remote – but they say they don’t make it any more (and I don’t know if it would fit right into the LC10M).

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic4news I have the SilverStone LC10M with the imon/vfd and was able to teach the imon codes to my MX500 remote. I agree that the imon software isn't the greatest, but I think you should be able to use any learning remote.

OK this is REALLY interesting! So far I have seen no user find a way around this, and at the manufacturers support forum linked above you can see quite a few have tried. So HOW did you do this? After reading your post I tried with a Universal Remote MX500, and it’s just as dead as with other learning remotes I have tried (although it acts like it's learning all the signals saying "good" after every read). Please tell us more! And please post that info on the iMON forum above and see what they say about it, according to them there should be no way that you could ever get that to work.

 

[olyar15]

I have to agree that Imon is pretty much worthless. This problem could be avoided with a proper Girder plugin that accepted IR signals from other remotes. That way, you could use any remote you wanted, and use Girder to interpret those remote signals. Unfortunately, the Girder plugin that Imon released only responds to signals from the Imon remote.


Your best bet is to buy a USB-UIRT instead. Really sucks that you have to buy another separate IR receiver when you already have a perfectly functional IR receiver already in your case.

 

[fishy]

My understanding is that the USB-UIRT can record a code in its own memory that enables it to start a PC that has a "boot on USB" option in its BIOS (though I've never used this myself).

 

[iMON]

Hello everyone,


First, thanks for your kind interest of our products. We received an Email from our OEM customer and find this forum. I also find that this forum is very useful place to talk about the future of HTPC.


We are developing and manufacturing the iMON related products. We had many old versions of iMON retail version before and now we have four retail versions and many different OEM versions to major HTPC case manufacturers. Now we provide our OEM module with VFD to many manufacturers and you may see more and more HTPC cases which includes our VFD/IR products. We know the different requests from our users and always tried to meet their request with advanced H/W and S/W.


When we designed the current remote controller, iMON PAD remote controller, the main concept and issue is how we could support the mouse pointer controllability as like as a real mouse. We know that to control the mouse using a remote controller is not easy as like on our desk but many of our users still wants to use the internet explorer and other applications using a mouse cursor. In order to cover this request, we design new IR signal protocol which reduces the IR signal length less than 30% of normal IR signal. Normally, the popular IR signal code like NEC is more than 100 ms, but this is not good to cover the mouse cursor control. Our current IR code is less than 30 ms, so our user could control the mouse cursor more smoothly. This is the main reason of the current universal remote controller could not learn our IR code. Some of our old remote controller, like iMON MM, it could be learned by universal remote controller because it does not have mouse control feature and use the normal IR code.


We have many future concepts of our products on H/W and S/W side. But H/W side always needs some time. In case of S/W side, we are very fast to cover our weak point and meet the request of our customer. We are now developing the new version of Multi-Median, our Media Center Solution which is provided with iMON. This new version called iMEDIAN and we accomplished many goals that we had before, we supplied the internal A/V codecs, so you don’t worry about the codecs when you watching DivX, XviD even DVD movies. We design our application could be run as a normal window mode too. We redesigned our media DB and this DB could support more than 1,000,000 media files on the HDD without serious loading time. We will support more TV card which is designed for MCE. Most of all, we supply new S/W application, which is worked as a P2P server in the home network. This means that you can access and make streaming every type of media files on your desktop or laptop in the other room. This is not a kind of network drive, but a real time streaming P2P solution in the local home network. The main issue of our current user is that they do not want to use keyboard or mouse at their living room when they use the HTPC. In order to copy the files from the external storage device or download the media files from the internet, it is very difficult to do this job only remote controller. But using our next version, you don’t need a keyboard and mouse more in your living room. Also you don’t need huge size storage on your HTPC too. This media network is provided as a S/W solution, and you can use your current home network to use this feature.


We also have many new concept of H/W side, this is developed carefully with our partners and we thought that we could introduce more nice H/Ws to the market in near future.


We saw some post on our website which is written by the same person on this thread. We are sorry that we could not explain more about our situation. And for our OEM partner, Silverstone, I think that they have best quality now in this market. What we could tell everyone is that we deeply understand this market and the need of customers and still trying best to make a more advanced solution with our OEM partners.


We don’t know that it is a good idea to pose a message as a manufacturer or not, but we would like to explain about our current situation. And sorry for poor English, we are Korean and it is kind of difficult to write well.


If you have any more questions for our product, please send us an email, you may get our feedback within one or two business day.


Thanks and best regards.

 

[RalphArch]

iMon


Thanks for posting here about your product. There are some very positive views posted on your product on this forum as well. Even though you didn't provide a MyHD specific imo file I do like using your product with that HDTV card and did post about my use of it, and a file with MyHD imo, in this thread


On the use of your hardware versus something like a PRONTO, I will side somewhat with you. For some of us ease of setup, remotely powering HTPC on/off, and the mouse working well and immediately is of most importance. My Pronto is sitting unused for a year or so in my living room. The Imon is being used for my HTPC and I am getting a second. The Pronto was relatively complex to program and use and customize so it is not for everyone - but certainly it is the solution that addresses all the HT components better than the iMon which in my mind seems focused on the HTPC. Like I said great for me but I do need other remotes for the other equipment.


Sure - maybe a Girder approach will do it all - and with a universal HT remote. But I spent weeks programming a while ago and don't feel like getting into that again. And I never got a remote mouse working well with my HTPC until your product came along

 

[Vikster]

Great that you join in iMON, several producers post here and I think you’ll find that it’s a great place to interact and learn about the needs of your customers.


All that you write is maybe great stuff, but for a home theatre (dark environment) a non-backlit remote to sit next to your expensive programmable remote is not a “New Standard for Home Theater PC†– it’s going back to the dark ages. It’s just not acceptable to most that invest time and money in an advanced HTPC based home theatre.


Since you write nothing about how I’m supposed to have any use your product in a dart home theatre environment (even if I could accept another low-budget remote next to my programmable one), in light of all the talk of home theatre on your home page, I suggest you put out a clear disclaimer on your homepage about the fact that this is a product that requires a bright home theatre (there is a contradiction for you since most of us work hard to make our viewing rooms dark) for use.


You should also clearly state that any investment in programmable remotes will be a waste if you intend to impement this product in your system. This information should also be visible on your product packaging and your in-store sales material. It would be very interesting to see what that does for your sales (but I take it you don’t want to mislead people like myself with your HTPC-marketing?).


Personally I don’t feel your company are responsible for my situation (although such disclaimers would have made me make a better choice), I hold Silverstone responsible for not checking what kind of product then put in a high end HTPC case better. Since I bought their system for the very purpose they advertise, and since I don’t in anyway consider myself an extraordinary user, but still find myself not being able to do what a customer in the HTPC segment has the right to expect, I expect for them to inform me on how I should use their product in a dark environment (such as a home theatre – their target market). If they sent over a back-lit remote I would still be disappointed, but at least I would have some kind of use for the product.


Also note that it’s not just me that have been complaining and asking about this – this is so basic for use by customers who intend to use the product in a home theatre. I’m sure we agree that people should have all the information they need about what your product (or any other product that comes bundled with it) can do for them so that they can make an informed choice regarding where they spend their money.


In all fairness, if you don’t mind having to use several remotes and if you don’t have a dark viewing environment – this is probably a great product for you. But then again, if this is the case, you are probably not really into home theatre stuff.

 

[Cliff Watson]

If I where you I would be more concerned that I paid $2000 for a Pronto remote that can’t learn any and ALL IR codes regardless of pulse length.

 

[S1DIMMER]

Why doesn't Silverstone and other case manufacturers just put in an empty window so I can put my MS IR receiver inside the case. That's all I want. I hate having a nice HT case and then the little IR box hanging off to the side. It should be integrated.

 

[Cliff Watson]

Quote:

Originally Posted by S1DIMMER Why doesn't Silverstone and other case manufacturers just put in an empty window so I can put my MS IR receiver inside the case. That's all I want. I hate having a nice HT case and then the little IR box hanging off to the side. It should be integrated.

I wonder if the SilverStone LC14 (non-M version) still has the window?

 

[S1DIMMER]

Interesting point Cliff. My guess is there isn't a window back there on the non -M cases. Would be a good idea to put one in below where the VFD goes.

There are no perfect HTPC cases, what can you do. I've been looking for about 2+ weeks to find something that would fit my needs but haven't really found one yet. I hate to spend a bunch of money and have to settle on a case. If Ahanix would use standard ATX power supplies I might go with one of those.

 

[vic4news]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vikster OK this is REALLY interesting! So far I have seen no user find a way around this, and at the manufacturers support forum linked above you can see quite a few have tried. So HOW did you do this? After reading your post I tried with a Universal Remote MX500, and it’s just as dead as with other learning remotes I have tried (although it acts like it's learning all the signals saying "good" after every read). Please tell us more! And please post that info on the iMON forum above and see what they say about it, according to them there should be no way that you could ever get that to work.

I bought the LC10M in January. It looks like it ships with a different version of iMON

now.

 

[Vikster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Watson If I where you I would be more concerned that I paid $2000 for a Pronto remote that can’t learn any and ALL IR codes regardless of pulse length.

I guess you missed NO existing remote can learn their new standard (according to SoundGraph themselves). There is no way to construct a product that will be able to do and read anything that people might come up with as you might understand.


Now, with that said, there might be a solution that some handy user might be able to come up with if they released the code specs (and I'm willing to look at anything that could work). For some reason that I fail to understand, they don’t even want to give people that chance, I must say I find it to be quite unbelievable.

Quote:

Originally Posted by vic4news I bought the LC10M in January. It looks like it ships with a different version of iMON now.

Arrrgh, that’s too bad! I was kind of hoping you had some magical solution. As things stand, consider yourself lucky to have a product useable in a home theatre environment though. I’d give a lot to be in your position.

 

[Cliff Watson]

So you are telling us that your $2000 Pronto is not a REAL learning remote. Maybe you should complain to Phillips and tell them to advertise it as a programmable remote, but only for codes they already know about.

 

[Vikster]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cliff Watson So you are telling us that your $2000 Pronto is not a REAL learning remote. Maybe you should complain to Phillips and tell them to advertise it as a programmable remote, but only for codes they already know about.

So if one company decides to release a "HTPC-product" that follows a new standard for IR that follows no know protocols, and hence works with NO LEARNING REMOTE KNOWN TO MAN, and that company also decides it will release NO info about that protocol to its users so they might be able to find a solution to that problem – you think the normal reaction should be to be upset with all the worlds makers of universal remotes since they did not foresee this?


You're a funny guy Cliff. Maybe you should see if there is an opening in the strategy department at SoundGraph - you might fit right in!