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Variable variable variables. "I can fit a 12," I can fit an 18," I can fit a 24." We are all different. Who cares about the price anymore. In my eyes it is where can be. Above the price point for the next baddest subs. Ultra and XXX and it is a 24!!. Price seems reasonable. Now can we move away from posts about the price. PLZ
 

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My thinking is if you EQ'd them to the same response and then turned it up you could see the differences in spectrum lab and when one distorts or compresses first as the volume goes up using real material or REW sweeps. What about the distortion levels at 10hz etc? I know it was not done at the GTG and I know how fast things move along when having a blast.
 

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"response sweeps really were quite similar between the two IIRC."


the spectrumlab that was posted suggested that eq and levels were not matched.


"level matched with the omnimic"


with what signal?


the frequency response of the two was obviously quite different.
We used the noise generator.

Yes the FR was different, but not all that different. Look guys, we didn't get together to do an ABX test. Far from it. We got together to have some fun with the 24. It was tremendously impressive. Not one person in the room could ever say anything otherwise. Throw out the results if you want to. We had a blast, drank some good beer, and enjoyed a fantastic day of audio fun.

If anyone that was actually there wants to come in a say "Yea the 24" isn't worth $1599" then they are welcome to, but I saw the value of the driver, and I feel like it is every bit worth it.
 

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everyone doesn't agree on anything. ;-)
It seems it's all about how big their jewels are :rolleyes:
At my age my testosterone level is going down a little faster than I thought.
I've been hanging around more and more here but it's not slowing down.

Wish I had some of the testosterone levels that some have here...my wife would be happier :(
And here I mean the DIY group.
 

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DS, I have the playlist we ran through for a demo, but it was only about 30 minutes long and had all sorts of types of music so I don't know how that will really benefit you so much. we then played randomly through my 4,000 track library as well as Austin's arsenal.

The g2g was unfortunately NOT a rave... :D
Unfortunately it wasn't. Next time I hope this oversight is corrected ;)

I'd love to actually see what could be done with a few of these in large ported/horn cabs at a EDM gig, perhaps Wi is reading along...
 

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We used the noise generator.

Yes the FR was different, but not all that different. Look guys, we didn't get together to do an ABX test. Far from it. We got together to have some fun with the 24. It was tremendously impressive. Not one person in the room could ever say anything otherwise. Throw out the results if you want to. We had a blast, drank some good beer, and enjoyed a fantastic day of audio fun.

If anyone that was actually there wants to come in a say "Yea the 24" isn't worth $1599" then they are welcome to, but I saw the value of the driver, and I feel like it is every bit worth it.
I mean, I'd shell out 1598 ALL DAY LONG for that beast...but 1599?? Forget it. :)
 

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No box for the 24" and I have too many other things to do to go about paying for and building a huge box for it just to test it and then scrap it. I wouldn't hold your breath it will likely be months before it pans out.
We should all take a donation paypal thing for $10 to fund it. If I was closer I'd offer to build it too. I think enough would want to see you test it to help fund the process. I wish I could help but I think I am too far away.
 

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We should all take a donation paypal thing for $10 to fund it. If I was closer I'd offer to build it too. I think enough would want to see you test it to help fund the process. I wish I could help but I think I am too far away.
Nick actually reached out to me to build a flat pack or box for it. I haven't discussed details with him yet, but due to the size it may not be feasible or cost effective to ship 4-5 sheets worth of ply freight, etc.
 

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Here is a new motor design than can run a 30 or 40 inch cone.

http://www.powersoft-audio.com/en/docman/911-m-force-kit-guide/file

M-Force cost retail is : $3429 the cone is an additional $214, amplifier is $3594.

Performance claimed is 145 dB at 30 Hz (one of the youtube videos).

Impedance of the driver is 0.25 ohm (yep that is 1/4 of a ohm).

Currently off the shelf availability made in Italy.

Moving magnet design has some pretty impress force profiles.
 

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This driver wasn't especially impressive when it came out last year at $699. At $1599 I'm 229 percent less impressed. Using a single unverified IN ROOM comparison at a get together without level matching or eq or even using the same position in the room (!?!) and the subsequent very vocal feedback from a few loyal supporters that should know that this was not even close to a meaningful test as justification for a radical price increase is ludicrous. That's all I'm going to say about price.

I wasn't going to comment on this driver at all on this forum since SI is very popular here but it's about time to talk about it openly in a technical sense, it's been almost a year since I last mentioned it and there's still no more info than there was at that time. Starting with the recent comments about power handling, it's rated 1500 watts for a reason. It's got a tiny 3 inch VC and if you give it much more power than that in a sustained fashion (like popular modern music with ~3 db crest factor which is twice as demanding as an AES test signal), especially at a frequency corresponding to an excursion minimum, it's going to burn like a fuse. Much like a fuse, all drivers can take a lot of power for a short time, but a medium amount of power for a medium amount of time will fry it. I'd be surprised if I wasn't able to destroy it in 10 minutes with a Behringer EP2500 with commonly available music. A member here blew up a couple of the SI 18s (rated at 600 watts) with a pair of 1000 watt amps, the same thing is going to happen with the 24 if it's given more than it's rated power with aggressively low crest factor for any reasonable amount of time, especially at minimum excursion frequencies. People are claiming the single 24 can match or beat a pair of 5400s (albeit in a crazy evaluation method with no meaningful informative value) but seem to ignore the fact that the latter has several times more power handling, and if (actually at 8000 watts it's more a question of when) the 24 blows the pair of 5400s are going to be infinitely more impressive.

This driver has a massive cone which is only supported by a 3 inch circle (VC) in the middle of it's diameter. (The surround isn't really a support in this sense, it will pull the cone in the direction opposite to it's VC powered motion causing flex.) I don't know how strong the cone is but I would not be surprised to see massive amounts of cone flex and distortion at high excursion. This is just speculation of course, and will probably remain so since there is no technical data or testing on this driver (the production version) that I can find.

Klippel tests of the prototype for this driver showed xmax of 20 mm limited by Le. Klippel standard is to use the lowest of four categories (Le, Cms, IM and Bl) for their xmax spec. 20 mm is just a bit more than half of the xmax value claimed on the SI website. (The same website which also STILL erroneously claims this is the highest displacement driver on the planet almost a year after SI publicly admitted that it was not.) SI chooses to ignore the Le xmax limit, instead preferring to focus ONLY on Bl limits to xmax. The Klippel standard for xmax limited by Bl is the exursion level (in mm) at which Bl is 82 percent compared to Bl at the resting position, roughly the 10 percent distortion point. The SI 24 prototype tested at 24 mm xmax by this standard. Some companies prefer to use 71 percent instead (which is NOT an official Klippel standard) as it allows inflated xmax spec. At 71 percent Bl, the SI 24 prototype tested at 30 mm xmax but this doesn't even really count if the Le (or any other) xmax limit is lower. The 36 mm spec claimed on the website was just an estimate based on what SI thought the production driver would test at, but since the production driver was never tested (as far as I know), it's impossible to verify. I do know that at least one person has volunteered to Klippel the production driver for them almost a year ago but I haven't seen any results so I have to assume the results can't support the claimed xmax. If there were favorable Klippel results it would be a HUGE selling point and I would have expected to see them by now.

SI 24 Prototype Bl Klippel result originally submitted by Electrodynamic in post 30 but graph and explanation how to read it are here - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/240775-stereo-integrity-24-ib-subwoofer-new-displacement-king-subwoofers-5.html#post3599310

SI 24 Prototype Cms and Le Klippel results submitted by Jakob of Sundown including an admission that the driver is limited by Le to 20 mm xmax (and including a promise that results from the production model were forthcoming almost a year ago) are here - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/240775-stereo-integrity-24-ib-subwoofer-new-displacement-king-subwoofers-7.html#post3602649

The whole thread is interesting and I recommend reading it all but the most important info is in those two posts.

There's no doubt that this driver can move some air but there's no technical data of any kind to show that it's anything special, or even that it lives up to it's specs. There does seem to be reason to believe that the xmax spec is vastly overrated.
 

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I can offer up my box, assuming I get another sheet of ply on the front baffle and it could be used. Free of charge minus the gas that it takes to get it to Ricci.
We could do a multi member transfer with a pick up, haha. Find all the member willing to help out along the way, each drives about an hour. That's team work!
 

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This driver wasn't especially impressive when it came out last year at $699. At $1599 I'm 229 percent less impressed. Using a single unverified IN ROOM comparison at a get together without level matching or eq or even using the same position in the room (!?!) and the subsequent very vocal feedback from a few loyal supporters that should know that this was not even close to a meaningful test as justification for a radical price increase is ludicrous. That's all I'm going to say about price.

I wasn't going to comment on this driver at all on this forum since SI is very popular here but it's about time to talk about it openly in a technical sense, it's been almost a year since I last mentioned it and there's still no more info than there was at that time. Starting with the recent comments about power handling, it's rated 1500 watts for a reason. It's got a tiny 3 inch VC and if you give it much more power than that in a sustained fashion (like popular modern music with ~3 db crest factor which is twice as demanding as an AES test signal), especially at a frequency corresponding to an excursion minimum, it's going to burn like a fuse. Much like a fuse, all drivers can take a lot of power for a short time, but a medium amount of power for a medium amount of time will fry it. I'd be surprised if I wasn't able to destroy it in 10 minutes with a Behringer EP2500 with commonly available music. A member here blew up a couple of the SI 18s (rated at 600 watts) with a pair of 1000 watt amps, the same thing is going to happen with the 24 if it's given more than it's rated power with aggressively low crest factor for any reasonable amount of time, especially at minimum excursion frequencies. People are claiming the single 24 can match or beat a pair of 5400s (albeit in a crazy evaluation method with no meaningful informative value) but seem to ignore the fact that the latter has several times more power handling, and if (actually at 8000 watts it's more a question of when) the 24 blows the pair of 5400s are going to be infinitely more impressive.

This driver has a massive cone which is only supported by a 3 inch circle (VC) in the middle of it's diameter. (The surround isn't really a support in this sense, it will pull the cone in the direction opposite to it's VC powered motion causing flex.) I don't know how strong the cone is but I would not be surprised to see massive amounts of cone flex and distortion at high excursion. This is just speculation of course, and will probably remain so since there is no technical data or testing on this driver (the production version) that I can find.

Klippel tests of the prototype for this driver showed xmax of 20 mm limited by Le. Klippel standard is to use the lowest of four categories (Le, Cms, IM and Bl) for their xmax spec. 20 mm is just a bit more than half of the xmax value claimed on the SI website. (The same website which also STILL erroneously claims this is the highest displacement driver on the planet almost a year after SI publicly admitted that it was not.) SI chooses to ignore the Le xmax limit, instead preferring to focus ONLY on Bl limits to xmax. The Klippel standard for xmax limited by Bl is the exursion level (in mm) at which Bl is 82 percent compared to Bl at the resting position, roughly the 10 percent distortion point. The SI 24 prototype tested at 24 mm xmax by this standard. Some companies prefer to use 71 percent instead (which is NOT an official Klippel standard) as it allows inflated xmax spec. At 71 percent Bl, the SI 24 prototype tested at 30 mm xmax but this doesn't even really count if the Le (or any other) xmax limit is lower. The 36 mm spec claimed on the website was just an estimate based on what SI thought the production driver would test at, but since the production driver was never tested (as far as I know), it's impossible to verify. I do know that at least one person has volunteered to Klippel the production driver for them almost a year ago but I haven't seen any results so I have to assume the results can't support the claimed xmax. If there were favorable Klippel results it would be a HUGE selling point and I would have expected to see them by now.

SI 24 Prototype Bl Klippel result originally submitted by Electrodynamic in post 30 but graph and explanation how to read it are here - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/240775-stereo-integrity-24-ib-subwoofer-new-displacement-king-subwoofers-5.html#post3599310

SI 24 Prototype Cms and Le Klippel results submitted by Jakob of Sundown including an admission that the driver is limited by Le to 20 mm xmax (and including a promise that results from the production model were forthcoming almost a year ago) are here - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/240775-stereo-integrity-24-ib-subwoofer-new-displacement-king-subwoofers-7.html#post3602649

The whole thread is interesting and I recommend reading it all but the most important info is in those two posts.

There's no doubt that this driver can move some air but there's no technical data of any kind to show that it's anything special, or even that it lives up to it's specs. There does seem to be reason to believe that the xmax spec is vastly overrated.

And you have actually given the 24 a real world listening and measurement test? Oh, well there was more than one member on here that has been around the block for quite some time that where very impressed with its performance at my place. I am glad you made it out and could divulge your opinion of the driver after a long day of giving it all we could! That is pretty impressive since I never saw you here all day :) We did close mic tests, room response, and put 8000 watts to the thing for a prolonged period of time. No doubt we could have smoked it with sine waves for several minutes on end, I don't know what driver wouldn't pass that test. To say you could kill it with an ep4000 is ignorant IMHO. I have absolutely beat my SI 18;s to death with just about every "compressed" EDM track I have, at blistering levels, and they have been fine, for almost 2 years now, with most of the time more than 1,000 watts to each of them.

There is also more than one OEM's at this point who have working models of the si24 that are very impressed with its capability, that produce world class speakers already. I guess they are just seeing stars about it to?

This is unfathomable to me how many people are coming out of the woodwork to slam this design/company. If Nick wouldn't get in trouble I think he should take the old mantra of my college fraternity: "Loved, Hated, but never Ignored" Un freaking real!!!!
 

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This driver wasn't especially impressive when it came out last year at $699. At $1599 I'm 229 percent less impressed. Using a single unverified IN ROOM comparison at a get together without level matching or eq or even using the same position in the room (!?!) and the subsequent very vocal feedback from a few loyal supporters that should know that this was not even close to a meaningful test as justification for a radical price increase is ludicrous. That's all I'm going to say about price.

I wasn't going to comment on this driver at all on this forum since SI is very popular here but it's about time to talk about it openly in a technical sense, it's been almost a year since I last mentioned it and there's still no more info than there was at that time. Starting with the recent comments about power handling, it's rated 1500 watts for a reason. It's got a tiny 3 inch VC and if you give it much more power than that in a sustained fashion (like popular modern music with ~3 db crest factor which is twice as demanding as an AES test signal), especially at a frequency corresponding to an excursion minimum, it's going to burn like a fuse. Much like a fuse, all drivers can take a lot of power for a short time, but a medium amount of power for a medium amount of time will fry it. I'd be surprised if I wasn't able to destroy it in 10 minutes with a Behringer EP2500 with commonly available music. A member here blew up a couple of the SI 18s (rated at 600 watts) with a pair of 1000 watt amps, the same thing is going to happen with the 24 if it's given more than it's rated power with aggressively low crest factor for any reasonable amount of time, especially at minimum excursion frequencies. People are claiming the single 24 can match or beat a pair of 5400s (albeit in a crazy evaluation method with no meaningful informative value) but seem to ignore the fact that the latter has several times more power handling, and if (actually at 8000 watts it's more a question of when) the 24 blows the pair of 5400s are going to be infinitely more impressive.

This driver has a massive cone which is only supported by a 3 inch circle (VC) in the middle of it's diameter. (The surround isn't really a support in this sense, it will pull the cone in the direction opposite to it's VC powered motion causing flex.) I don't know how strong the cone is but I would not be surprised to see massive amounts of cone flex and distortion at high excursion. This is just speculation of course, and will probably remain so since there is no technical data or testing on this driver (the production version) that I can find.

Klippel tests of the prototype for this driver showed xmax of 20 mm limited by Le. Klippel standard is to use the lowest of four categories (Le, Cms, IM and Bl) for their xmax spec. 20 mm is just a bit more than half of the xmax value claimed on the SI website. (The same website which also STILL erroneously claims this is the highest displacement driver on the planet almost a year after SI publicly admitted that it was not.) SI chooses to ignore the Le xmax limit, instead preferring to focus ONLY on Bl limits to xmax. The Klippel standard for xmax limited by Bl is the exursion level (in mm) at which Bl is 82 percent compared to Bl at the resting position, roughly the 10 percent distortion point. The SI 24 prototype tested at 24 mm xmax by this standard. Some companies prefer to use 71 percent instead (which is NOT an official Klippel standard) as it allows inflated xmax spec. At 71 percent Bl, the SI 24 prototype tested at 30 mm xmax but this doesn't even really count if the Le (or any other) xmax limit is lower. The 36 mm spec claimed on the website was just an estimate based on what SI thought the production driver would test at, but since the production driver was never tested (as far as I know), it's impossible to verify. I do know that at least one person has volunteered to Klippel the production driver for them almost a year ago but I haven't seen any results so I have to assume the results can't support the claimed xmax. If there were favorable Klippel results it would be a HUGE selling point and I would have expected to see them by now.

SI 24 Prototype Bl Klippel result originally submitted by Electrodynamic in post 30 but graph and explanation how to read it are here - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/240775-stereo-integrity-24-ib-subwoofer-new-displacement-king-subwoofers-5.html#post3599310

SI 24 Prototype Cms and Le Klippel results submitted by Jakob of Sundown including an admission that the driver is limited by Le to 20 mm xmax (and including a promise that results from the production model were forthcoming almost a year ago) are here - http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/240775-stereo-integrity-24-ib-subwoofer-new-displacement-king-subwoofers-7.html#post3602649

The whole thread is interesting and I recommend reading it all but the most important info is in those two posts.

There's no doubt that this driver can move some air but there's no technical data of any kind to show that it's anything special, or even that it lives up to it's specs. There does seem to be reason to believe that the xmax spec is vastly overrated.
To be fair, it was tested, albeit not on a Klippel.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=56
 

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DIY speaker guy, it was me that blew up my SI18's but it was with 2 x 500 watts Bash amps, not 1000.

Beast, I understand why you get defensive, I feel the same about Mach 5 but at the end of the day, it doesn't matter what anyone thinks, thats why I always laugh at people that know everything about a driver, when they've never even seen one, let alone heard one.
People pm me and ask me all the time why I don't post any data on pretty much anything. This thread is a perfect reason. Everyone questions everything... and to be honest, as well they should. It's gonna be picked apart from one side to the other. I just enjoy my system and thats enough for me, they can believe or not believe what ever the hell they want to :)
 

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What was the crest factor and specific frequencies of the material you were playing? You keep saying 8000 watts but don't seem to realize that means nothing at all by itself. There's a HUGE difference between the occasional 8000 watt peak vs 8000 watts of sustained AES signal vs 8000 watts sustained sine wave. There IS modern music that is very much as demanding as pure sine waves (same crest factor). The box and the frequencies played also have EVERYTHING to do with how much power a driver can handle.

Without knowing the crest factor you have no idea how much power the sub was consuming OVER TIME and without knowing the frequencies that were played (and the box design which is the one thing you do know) you have no idea how much the driver was self cooling.

You did say "No doubt we could have smoked it with sine waves for several minutes on end, I don't know what driver wouldn't pass that test." but you don't seem to realize there is modern music that is just as demanding as sine waves. You also said "the box got a little smelly" but don't seem to realize that that is a blatant distress signal. Your drivers are not supposed to smell like they are burning.

As far as I can tell you didn't measure power compression, and as far as I can tell the few things you did measure you measured in room at low power levels. In other words you didn't measure anything meaningful at all that can be used to prove this driver can handle more than 1500 watts RMS and survive. So call me ignorant if you like but do so in a technical manner, as you haven't stated a single technical fact so far.

I'm glad that you were impressed but since you didn't measure anything of any value please don't expect me to be, and please don't continue to state that the driver can handle 8000 watts without some type of measurements of crest factor, frequency, box details, and time. This kind of thing is going to end up costing someone a lot of money in blown drivers and it's exactly why SI won't budge from their 1500 watt rating.

To be fair, it was tested, albeit not on a Klippel.

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=driver&id=56
I know. He said the surround was visibly distorting at 3 inches peak to peak, which is roughly the claimed xmax for this driver. I'm pretty sure if the surround was dimpling visibly it would be well past xmax by Klippel standards and would be in the area where distortion is rising exponentially. He does like to test drivers right to the bleeding edge and describe it all in detail and we all appreciate it but without a Klippel machine he simply can't measure xmax. And he didn't put it in a box at all, so the massive cone was under very little stress. As I mentioned, I'm pretty sure that massive cone is going to distort badly at high excursion once it's in a box with some pressure on it.
 
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