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Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabaeus /forum/post/18835813


This study concentrates mostly on VR solution, where the display is really close to the eye (HMD or individual screens).


There is a very basic problem with stereoscopy and physical distance to the display. The stereoscopic images simulate different depths of the objects to the brain. The brain tells the eyes to focus at that perceived distance. But, the eye needs to focus onto the display, at a fixed distance.


The brain need a while to get used to this disconnect, and to reverse this once it's looking at the real world again. This can cause headaches. This effect is most severe for HMDs, where the perceived and physical distances differ a lot, and least severe in movie theaters, where the screen is at an almost infinite focal depth for the human eye. So, for home 3D viewing, the stress should be less fo larger displays at a greater distance to the viewer.

Indeed, my Nintendo Virtual Boy would give me headaches within 10-15 minutes, yet I have viewed up to 2 hours (constant) of 'current' 3D tech on my plasma with no headache or eye strain.


I would take the cautions seriously however and not watch for more than a couple hours at a time, I am an avid gamer but there is no way I would play for extended periods in 3D (it's simply not worth whatever risks there could be, if any).


Jason
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp /forum/post/18837389



I would take the cautions seriously however and not watch for more than a couple hours at a time, I am an avid gamer but there is no way I would play for extended periods in 3D (it's simply not worth whatever risks there could be, if any).


The thing that is interesting about all of this, is that there has been a sizable PC gaming community that has been gaming in Stereo 3D for a number of years now. Some of these dudes are pretty hardcore, and play with the glasses all day long. You'd think we would have heard some specific evidence of this by now. These guys have been doing this since the very late 90's.


I won't be using my glasses so often that this would be a concern for me, but I'm not going to be too worried about these horror stories, when I haven't heard any first hand experience with it. Unless these gamers are so embarrassed of their condition, that they are deliberately trying to keep their ailment secret.


When Avatar comes out on 3D Blu Ray, I'm not going to watch the first 2 hours of the movie and then turn it off. If some unbelievable new game comes out, and I want to play the thing for 3 hours, I might just do that. I'm not going to worry to much about this. Typically, I'd say my viewing sessions would normally be about 1 hour and 30 minutes. Occasionally, I'll only use it for 45 minutes. Sometimes only a half-hour quickie. Sometimes 2 1/2 hours if I'm really into something. Breaks are a good idea to rest the eyes, but I'm not going to stress over it.
 

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I agree, not something to stress over really, just use some common sense and take breaks. I certainly would not attempt some marathon gaming session in 3D however. I have played certain games (2D) for 6 hours straight and this I would never do with 3D, heck even playing that long in 2D hurts my eyes and often results in a headache.


Jason
 

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I was playing 5 hours of wipeout HD 3D and I can't read this thread
Does it say anything important about anything?

 

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Discussion Starter #25

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhetman /forum/post/18834939


It can probably be linked to global warming as well.

The difference being that global climate change is not caused by humans, whereas by using stereo you're willfully risking your eyesight.
 

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Discussion Starter #26

Quote:
Originally Posted by scarabaeus /forum/post/18835813


This study concentrates mostly on VR solution, where the display is really close to the eye (HMD or individual screens).

I think already addressed this. Convergence is angular. A screen near your eyes uses much less separation to give the same convergence as a screen that's distant. The Australian government study someone quoted on the first page notes that this is not HMD-specific for this reason.

Quote:
There is a very basic problem with stereoscopy and physical distance to the display. The stereoscopic images simulate different depths of the objects to the brain. The brain tells the eyes to focus at that perceived distance. But, the eye needs to focus onto the display, at a fixed distance.

Yes.

Quote:
The brain need a while to get used to this disconnect, and to reverse this once it's looking at the real world again.

The brain does get used to different vergence for a different focus. But it still takes time to switch back. Over time, the rest vergence shifts (else prism glasses treatment for strabismus wouldn't work), and that is the problem--it is a semi-permanent effect if the exposure is intense and prolonged enough. Probably not an issue for the casual user, but for a hardcore gamer that goes on long gaming binges, and for TV junkies, I think it should be a serious concern over the years.

Quote:
This can cause headaches.

Pain is the body trying to tell you something.

Quote:
least severe in movie theaters, where the screen is at an almost infinite focal depth for the human eye.

There is less pain from accommodative stress because the lens-deforming eye muscles are nearly relaxed for distance viewing. However, the stereo separation on the screen is correspondingly larger, and so remains the conflict between proprioceptive feedback from the given accommodation of the eyes which leads the brain to tend to one vergence--nearly parallel--and the different vergence the eyes are forced to by binocular disparity (the overriding depth cue). That's the issue I was addressing.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixie /forum/post/18843181


The difference being that global climate change is not caused by humans, whereas by using stereo you're willfully risking your eyesight.

You get in your car almost everyday? Yes?


You are willfully risking your life.



Smoking has been proven to cause cancer(s).


Do ALL smokers develope cancer(s) from smoking?

 

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Discussion Starter #28

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anthony1 /forum/post/18837690


The thing that is interesting about all of this, is that there has been a sizable PC gaming community that has been gaming in Stereo 3D for a number of years now. Some of these dudes are pretty hardcore, and play with the glasses all day long. You'd think we would have heard some specific evidence of this by now. These guys have been doing this since the very late 90's.

I still have my shutterglasses from the 90s, when I started using them for gaming (had to mod the controller when parallel ports disappeared so I could hook it up to the VGA port's VSYNC pin...). However, I'm not a hardcore gamer. You mention you know ones that have been using them, but I am, as anyone should be, very skeptical of anecdotal evidence. After all, how many people decades ago were worried about lung cancer when lighting up? Denialism about potential health dangers here is hardly better than this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpwcF3Malj8
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nixie /forum/post/18843181


The difference being that global climate change is not caused by humans, whereas by using stereo you're willfully risking your eyesight.

I guess that is about as well-established as a fact as this stereo 3D thing huh?
 

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Discussion Starter #30

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaGamePimp /forum/post/18837972


just use some common sense and take breaks.

Yes, but common sense is not all that common. I find that the case particularly among strong enthusiasts (in any hobby, not just this one; I'm a science geek and I have a functional X-ray machine in my place, for example).

Quote:
I certainly would not attempt some marathon gaming session in 3D however. I have played certain games (2D) for 6 hours straight and this I would never do with 3D, heck even playing that long in 2D hurts my eyes and often results in a headache.

But some people push through regardless. I'm afraid I've done it, playing almost 10 hours straight. Adding the current problematic state of stereo without accommodation to the mix is a danger exactly to the hardcore users (or should I say, abusers). I am not too worried about the average user, though I would fathom a guess that some people might be more sensitive by predisposition to an ill effect. But even if we are talking about a minority of users, that doesn't mean that we should say "well **** them, not my problem". And this is worth mentioning particularly in this thread, given a post like Anthony1's above that had more "I" and "me" in it than the rest of my daily readings.
 

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Discussion Starter #32

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart /forum/post/18843215


Smoking has been proven to cause cancer(s).


Do ALL smokers develope cancer(s) from smoking?

??

I don't get your point. As I've said, my concern is particularly for the hardcore users. Denying dangers to eyesight from "ooh, three dee!" marketing pushing of technology not designed with safety in mind is analogous to preaching that smoking has no dangers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by almostinsane /forum/post/18843386


I think eating at McDonald's poses a greater risk than watching 3D does.

not really because they are going to take away the toy surprise.
 

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Generally topographic maps are generated from aerial photographs that have a 60% overlap so they are 3d pairs. The people doing this work look at stereo pairs for 40 hours a week and do it over many years, even over a full career. I worked with a stereoscope looking at stereo pairs for several years.


The only problem I ever had was eye strain which had nothing to do with 3D


I never heard of it causing lazy eye, maybe lazy butt as I was working for the government at the time.
 

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As someone who [sadly] does 12 hour straight marathon gaming sessions in 3D on a 46" 3DTV between 2 and 3ft from my eyes, my initial response to this thread wanted to be Buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuulllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhiiiiiiiiiii.................. but much MUCH longer. According to Steam, which keep track of your gameplay, i have about 1500 hours of gaming in 3D. I usually play single player games straight through, like all last Saturday was Mass Effect 3 with no breaks but for food. No eye related anomalies. There is also a surprising lack of eye strain/headache talk on the 3D Vision board -not even one dedicated thread in the 3 years i've been an active member, i certainly can't remember any.
 
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