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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I've read the threads re when the digital jiggers comes in playing back D-VHS tapes, that you need to clean the JVC D-VHS VCR; and then that no, its the pinch roller, or that the decks have a defect which shows up after so many hours of use. No opinion on that. I am just dealing with my own JVC D-VHS VCR that I've had since late August. And which I'm using even more recently thanks to getting my Samsung SIR-T165 a few weeks ago and doing some HD recording, not just a bit of analog OTA recording as I was doing before. And watching a few D-VHS D-Theater movies a week, too!


As background, I have the JVC connected by toslink and component video;

and the 165 connected by RGB and digital coaxial.


About six weeks ago, playing a D-Theater tape, I started getting those digital nasties making the tape unwatchable. I got one of those Maxell VP100 non-abrasive dry cleaning tapes and no problems thereafter.

I've repeated using the Maxell cleaning tape about every twenty hours of VCR use.


A few weeks ago, I started noticing a few of the digital nasties/glitches in playing back a D-VHS tape I recorded via 1394 with the Samsung SIR-T165.

I simply used the Maxell cleaning tape and all was fine.


The other nite, we watched "Spy Game" D-Theater pre-recorded D-VHS tape. Had to watch direct via JVC component video (as I have 165 hooked up only via RGB, and the 165 will not play D-Theater encoded tapes out its RGB video, only out its component video). Quickly we started getting the digital nasties. DARN! As a tweaker I think the unthinkable. I stopped the tape and I turned off the 165, and I changed the channel/input on the JVC from where I had last left it, at "I-Link" input, to an OTA station. Would you believe then I put the movie back on and it worked fine thereafter!!!


Tonight, I recorded "American Dreams" in HD with the 165-JVC combo.

I started playing it back throught the 1394 or I-Link. I had the JVC channel on the I-Link input. I started getting digital nasties. I turned off the 165

and changed the channel on the JVC, both to an OTA analog station, and to simply a different video input like "F-1", and playback was fine thereafter.

I then found that I could leave the JVC on whatever channel or input and the D-VHS tape playing therein would playback through the 165 (apparently, you only need set the JVC to "I-Link" if you are recording from the 165 manually, not using the timer). I then set the JVC channel to "F-1" and then I was able to playback the show via the 1394 through the 165 no problem.


I just wonder if there's something more going on here than the pinch roller!!!??? Could these digital dropouts/jiggers be more than deck cleaning or pinch roller, but instead be related to jitter over the 1394 cable??? Could that jitter somehow be exacerbated by having the JVC tuned to the I-Link input on playback????


Me, I'm not engineer, I don't pretend to understand this stuff. But there seems to be something funny goin' on here.


Other folks having the digital dropouts/jiggers problems with their JVC deck should try some of the inane things I noted above and let us know if it makes any difference??? Another thing to try (I haven't yet) is disconnect the 1394 cable on playback and does that make any difference???


I know, the above thingamagics happening are likely only happenstance, luck of the draw. But you never know!!!


Remember back in early 80's digital audio was to be "perfect sound forever". Well, it wasn't. Now I appreciate folks with Mitsubishi D-VHS decks haven't been complaining like many with the JVC D-VHS deck.

But maybe its something peculiar to the JVC in how they implemented the firewire leading to these dropout/digital jiggers!!!! ????????
 

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Steve,


I'm not sure about the Video problems with the JVC D-VHS, but some observation about my JVC D-VHS -- Panasonic TU-DST51 STB. My Samsung SIR-T165 is sitting at CEV Service awaiting a Service Manual from Samsung. It arced across the power plug when I first plugged it in. Question---Does the display light up when I first turned it on.


I did have a problem with clogged heads on the JVC shortly after I got it in February. I purchased the JVC D-VHS Head Cleaner and have had no problem since. I blame the head clog on a regular VHS tape I was using to test the unit. I do know that new machines or new heads have a tendency to clog easier right away. I am a Master Control Engineer at a TV Station, so I have a lot of experince with head clogs.


Now, as to the problem being there when the JVC is on I input. You solved one problem I have been having. I could not control the JVC when the Panasonic was on and connected by I-Link with the JVC set to I input. I could only control it with the Panasonic D-VHS controls. Since I use a Phillips Pronto, I'm not sure if the Panasonic Remote will control the JVC directly without the On Screen controls. I have both units connected to a Mitsubishi 46809 HDTV via a JVC JX-S777 AV Switcher. Besides 8 AV Inputs it has two Componet Inputs ans 3 I-Link inputs. Nice Unit. I cannot see the Panasonic Controls when the JVC is punched up. I just did some testing and I can record to the JVC with the Panasonic on screen control but not play back thru the I-Link. I don't think that is possible.


So there may be something strange in the I-Link that causes my problems and yours. Eventhough they are different.


I hope this helps.


James Daniel Bishop
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by DanB33
My Samsung SIR-T165 is sitting at CEV Service awaiting a Service Manual from Samsung. It arced across the power plug when I first plugged it in. Question---Does the display light up when I first turned it on.

James Daniel Bishop
When you plug in the 165, it stays off. But once you hit the Power button on the remote, it gradually turns on over about five seconds, with the blue front panel display coming on.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by DanB33
I did have a problem with clogged heads on the JVC shortly after I got it in February. I purchased the JVC D-VHS Head Cleaner and have had no problem since.James Daniel Bishop
I think a member at this forum used a microscope and determined that the JVC D-VHS cleaner is too abrasive, but that the Maxell VP100 cleaning tape is as advertised non-abrasive and that's what I've been using.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by DanB33
Now, as to the problem being there when the JVC is on I input. You solved one problem I have been having. I could not control the JVC when the Panasonic was on and connected by I-Link with the JVC set to I input. I could only control it with the Panasonic D-VHS controls. James Daniel Bishop
I actually can control the JVC using the 165's I-Link control panel fine.

And then if I exit the 165's I-Link control panel, then I can use the JVC's own remote or controls. But it is finicky at times and can be problematic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by DanB33
I could not control the JVC when the Panasonic was on and connected by I-Link with the JVC set to I input. I could only control it with the Panasonic D-VHS controls. Since I use a Phillips Pronto, I'm not sure if the Panasonic Remote will control the JVC directly without the On Screen controls. I have both units connected to a Mitsubishi 46809 HDTV via a JVC JX-S777 AV Switcher. Besides 8 AV Inputs it has two Componet Inputs ans 3 I-Link inputs. Nice Unit. I cannot see the Panasonic Controls when the JVC is punched up. I just did some testing and I can record to the JVC with the Panasonic on screen control but not play back thru the I-Link. I don't think that is possible. James Daniel Bishop
Are you saying that you have two D-VHS decks, JVC and Panasonic, hooked up to your 165? If so, I could see where that could add even more potential for confusion through that I-Link connection. Seems the JVC is most finicky on playback - I haven't had any problems using the I-Link to do non-timer recording at all.
 

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Steve, I have seen two issues with the JVC. One is the issues with build up on the capstan and marking on the pinch roller. I have had to clean my 5 decks twice, and I just lost another deck for the third time. There is also another failure mechanism that I have been bugging JVC for the last year and they have elected to ignore me. I had it happen again this morning. I watch the end of a tape I made. I was all breaking up. I know this deck is just about ready to also dump for the third time. But as I always do to verify, I put the tape in another deck and it played back fine. I put it back in the first deck and all messed up. So, I now know its the MPEG mess up issue I have seen for the last year. I unplug the power on the deck, and then play again. Fine now. I cant tell you how many times I have seen this failure mechanism also.


So this is and has been two failure faults with the deck. The tape path (seems like the pinch roller and or capstan are impacting this) and the mpeg decoder gets locked up.


Dave
 

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Steve,


I have seen the exact same behaviour after dubbing from a Panasonic PVHD1000 D-VHS to my JVC30k. Occasionally I get the "MPEG Decoder Lock-Up" problem when playing back a tape. It usually occurs right after I've been shuttling the tape (backward or forward). Changing tapes does not cure the playback problem. But if I change the JVC's input from "I- 1" to the internal tuner it fixes the playback problem. So far this is the only problem I have had with the JVC. I have had my JVC for about 3 months.


Graham
 

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Dave,


I have found it to be intermittent. For the past few weeks I have been dubbing my DVHS library from the PVHD1000 to the JVC. When I started having the playback problem I swapped to another Panasonic unit. I have since dubbed another 5 or 6 tapes and and I haven't seen the problem occur yet. But I don't think that proves much.


Graham
 

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Steve,

The answer is that this can't be it since I've used the component output only to my scaler pass through. The tape cleaner did work initially ( although I don't know if it was that or any change would have altered things enough to cause it to work for a while). This machine certainly had less than 50 hours and probably between 25-35 hours maximum and nothing short of opening it up would fix it. I returned it for an exchange at Sears. The new unit has thus far been fine but it has 12 hours of use on it( I'm keeping track for the record).


Art
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I hope you guys realize I'm not saying there ain't a problem with the JVC deck or its pinch roller and that at some point I will continue to experience it no matter what I do. I'm just giving my experiences so far, as we all share, and learn. And Dave, I respect you highly and appreciate you have probably as much or more experience with more JVC D-VHS decks than anyone in the world (next to perhaps the JVC engineers)!
 

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Steve, I didnt at all take your observations any other way than these devices seem to have lots of funny ways they behave. The more we share notes, the more at some time maybe JVC will listen to our total corcerns about trying to help them improve what should be a great product. This is like the first round of DVD players, (and some still) where some discs would play, some wouldnt, etc. What was interesting is when I told Marek about the decoder screw up issues I have seen during the last year and told JVC about it. He said he never heard of it. Japans comment back was the DTC100 from 169time was the cause.


I really dont want to have to push JVC to give my money back. I still consider the component outputs a MUST for the ease of use I need for 5 decks. But, not having the confidence that I can record for a decent amount of time before I have to "fix" the machine. When I asked what are they replacing when these type of decks are coming in for repair, he had no idea. This is why I kept saying, I need to talk directly to engineering, just like I did before. If they arent willing to work with some who has put more time into these than most, then they clearly will be telling me I need to ask for my money back. Boy, I hope it doesnt come down to this since I have been sticking up for the product for so long. I seem to be this kinda sucker.


I have probably sent the 3 JVC folks I have names for 10 different sets of data that I have gathered from AVS. I have yet to even get a response back that they respect the help I am trying to give. I know if this was a customer of a product I build, I would be on the phone right away to get as much help as I can. I customer you want to keep is by definition, never wrong. (They May be an As----e), but a mad customer talks to many more folks than a happy one.


Dave
 

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Are you saying that you have two D-VHS decks, JVC and Panasonic, hooked up to your 165?


The Panasonic box is a TS-DST51 HDTV Tuner. I will be replacing it when I get the Samsung SIR-T165 back from Service.


James Daniel Bishop
 

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Originally posted by Steve Bruzonsky

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I just wonder if there's something more going on here than the pinch roller!!!??? Could these digital dropouts/jiggers be more than deck cleaning or pinch roller, but instead be related to jitter over the 1394 cable??? Could that jitter somehow be exacerbated by having the JVC tuned to the I-Link input on playback????

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Steve,

I was going on this statement It is just that in my case at least, since I've never recorded or employed the I- link with my first unit but had the same issues as others have described , I think that we could probably rule out that theory.


Art
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
More strange I-Link I think thingamagics!!!


Last night, I recorded "John Doe" in 16:9 480p on Fox. In watching it later, I started getting the digital nasties!!! I turned the JVC from "I-Link" to a channel. I stopped and turned off the JVC. I turned off and back on the 165. I then used the 165's "I-Link" D-VHS on-screen panel to turn on and play the JVC, then exited the 165's "I-Link" D-VHS panel. Thereon used JVC remote and no problem rest of show. And I also rewound show a bit and verified recording was fine, I had simply had some playback glitches until I did the above procedure.


Today, I started watching the D-Theater tape of "Behind Enemy Lines". Right away I started getting pixel breakup problems. I then realized I still had the 165 on, even though I was playing back solely through the JVC and didn't need the 165 on (the 165 is connected RGB only, and D-Theater will only play back through the 165 via its component outputs). I turned off the 165. I turned off the JVC and then turned the JVC back on. And it worked fine thereafter.
 

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Steve, this could be the lock up issue I have been talking about for the last year. Also, I know RIchard has seen noise get into the JVC power cable and cause it to mess up on playback. Putting a choke on his JVC power cable cleaned this up. As I first step I would suggest you get the new f/w I posted about since this could be the lock up issue.


Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Oh - re the AC power. Finally someone saying AC can make a difference. HAAAAAA! I modified my JVC by cutting down the power cord to a few inches, adding a male Hubbell, and using a Granite Audio power cord

(high frequency noise filtering by toroids each end) to my PS Audio P600.

Maybe this aids with the jitters, too.


Re the lockup info, thanks, in case it may apply at all, I'll look into it! But the deck doesn't really lock up, it gets glitchy. And I do my little chango like I mention above, and all allright. HAAAAA! I will see about the software upgrade just in case. Thanks.
 

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Okay, let me use better words. I have seen two conditions. One is lock up where the picture freezes. The other I see the most is where the playback goes into pixels, and until I unplug, I cant get it unlocked. I am hoping the new f/w will fix both of these issues I have seen and told JVC about.


Dave
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
And Dave, yes I have seen both issues, minor inconveniences I have solved as stated above. But heck, if the new software might get rid of the inconvenience, I will go for it. Thanks so much for the info. Much appreciated.
 
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