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Studios must be pist at Sony-maybe...

3981 Views 74 Replies 39 Participants Last post by -=Kamikaze=-, May 17, 2006

blakes7

Discussion Starter · May 12, 2006

The biggest selling point for Blu-Ray with the studios was the anti-copy protection that was supposed to be better than HD-DVD. Obviously the studios thought that Sony was the "sure thing" this time around, as the PS2 has sold a bajillion systems and they assumed that Sony would once dominate again.

This was all fine and good till it was revealed that the "crappy" version of the PS3 will not have an HDMI port; something vital for HDTV copy protection. Gone were the TWO HDMI ports promised last year and now also gone was true next gen HD home video compatibility. How is Sony going to spin this, or explain this crucial difference to the consumer? "Yes, your new PS3 can play Blu-Ray movies! Only if the studios allow you to watch them because you bought the crappy version of the PS3. If you would have spent the $100 bucks more you would have gotten the real HD playback!"

I had actually assumed that way back, when the two sku rumor was floating about that Sony would actually have some way to unlock the Blu-Ray capabilities via their online service, for a fee, of course. Not including an HDMI port on the standard model means either someone at Sony is incredibly stupid, or that the movie studios got together and somebody really smart finally realized that the "analog hole" would have almost zero effect on piracy.

With the unconfirmed rumor that the HD DVD drive for the 360 not having an HDMI port also, makes me think that the studios have realized that analog HD copying is, right now, a real pain in the ass and not worth it. As long as the stuidos are able to update the "keys" for the encryption of the HD movies, they have little to worry about the analog hole.

OR Sony just totally screwed themselves, as they bet the farm on Blu-Ray. I don't think studios want to have the bad press, or to be the bad guys because Sony decided to not spend the $5 bucks on an HDMI connector.

Lastly, the ICT is bad for both Sony and the studios. Consumers will think that something is wrong with their PS3, OR something is wrong with the BR disc.

Damn ICT

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1 - 20 of 75 Posts

nyg

· #2 · May 12, 2006

pist?

necrolop

· #3 · May 12, 2006

I think it will mean ICT is DOA. If it turns out that half of home Blu-ray players cant use HDMI, studios just wont use it cause they cant convince people that downresed movies are worth buying over DVDs. I think Sony just killed ICT. Good IMO, thats the only good thing about that PS3 version, other than that Im mad that sony didnt include HDMI.

rlsmith

· #4 · May 12, 2006

We don't know yet but it would seem that the Microsoft XBOX HD DVD drive will also not have HDMI. If so, then Blu-Ray and HD DVD are simply in the same place on this issue. Indeed, with Sony producing a version of the PS3 with HDMI, they could be interpreted as being more studio-compliant.

Once of the things that is so odd about postings on both sides of the format war is that things that are really true of BOTH camps are ascribed as being unique to one or the other.

But I agree that ICT may be a dead issue. Once the studios realized the resistance they were building into the new hidef products, they appear to be backing off.

WOLVERNOLE

· #5 · May 12, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by nyg
pist?

work permit

· #6 · May 12, 2006

Sonys response: HaHa!

Ilka

· #7 · May 12, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by rlsmith
We don't know yet but it would seem that the Microsoft XBOX HD DVD drive will also not have HDMI. If so, then Blu-Ray and HD DVD are simply in the same place on this issue. Indeed, with Sony producing a version of the PS3 with HDMI, they could be interpreted as being more studio-compliant.

Once of the things that is so odd about postings on both sides of the format war is that things that are really true of BOTH camps are ascribed as being unique to one or the other.

But I agree that ICT may be a dead issue. Once the studios realized the resistance they were building into the new hidef products, they appear to be backing off.

Interesting thoughts, and agree with most. But I reached a different conclusion: I think there is a possibility that the studios will move even earlier now to enable the ICT flag (yes, I know, it has been pointed out to me that over the short-term at least, this will hurt sales), but since it was the Movie studios that wanted HDMI/HDCP and the ICT in the first place, I think they may force the hand of the console industry. Just a guess, and at this point, frankly, nothing would surprise me.

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BuGsArEtAsTy

· #8 · May 12, 2006

The best thing about Sony's PS3 announcement Microsoft's HD DVD announcement is that this ICT "protection" has been dealt a huge blow, from two fronts.

paintit77

· #9 · May 12, 2006

Not to mention that HDMI is having some serios growing pains. The compatibily issues are really going to strain the adoption. I can't tell you how many HDMI and DVI cables get returned to retailers because of the HDMI/HDCP handshakes not working. The interface was rushed to market and now it may be dead on arrival until operability is tested and certified. Widescreen Review magazine has a two page article on this very issue. With the audio and video sync issues that the Toshiba HD-A1 has, I have quit using the HDMI with my Sammy DLP. I like the DTS upconverted from DD 5.1 over my Optical Cables anyway.

chap

· #10 · May 12, 2006

Unless they change it, there is no HDMI on the 360 HD-DVD. Its just a pc drive in a case according to Engaget (they said it in there podcast from seeing it and described what it looked like)

BuGsArEtAsTy

· #11 · May 12, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by chap
Unless they change it, there is no HDMI on the 360 HD-DVD. Its just a pc drive in a case according to Engaget (they said it in there podcast from seeing it and described what it looked like)

Hence my point above. Yes, it looks like just a PC desktop drive in a 360-esque enclosure.

It's possible that the 360 already has the HDCP logic in the GPU and they could just release an HDMI dongle, but for now we have to assume they will not any time soon, considering no mention of HDMI was made at E3. (They have made the comment in the past that they could do HDMI when they felt it was necessary, but we don't know exactly what that means. ie. We don't know if that means a new 360 model, or if it's just a dongle, but the context made it sound like it was the latter.)

As it stands now, with Sony and MS both releasing non-HDMI machines, and none of the initial Blu-ray and HD DVD titles implementing ICT, I am growing more confident that we may never see ICT implemented over component. It's a moronic "feature" anyway, which really serves nobody, not even the studios, cuz all it does is introduce the possibility of more glitches, and it will only piz people off.

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CPanther95

· #12 · May 12, 2006

I hope you guys are right, but I doubt this will scare the studios away from implementing ICT. Game machines will not make up a huge percentage of disc buyers, and any blowback from agitated consumers will likely be directed at the hardware manufacturers who deliberately left off the HDMI connection.

tqlla

· #13 · May 12, 2006

I think people who have HDTVs which dont have HDMI, will be pissed.

I am starting to worry that the HDMI on my TV isnt going to support this ICT... who knows what will happen.

I would think that ICT wont be implemented until a format war has won and there is a decent amount of market penetration. By this time, 2Gen Disc players will be cheaper.

CPanther95

· #14 · May 12, 2006

2nd generation players will be cheaper, but all the core PS3's will be obsolete for HD movies (as well as the 360's HD-DVD addon if it is sans-HDMI).

I just hope my Dad's Hitachi craps out soon since I talked him into spending about $500 more a few years ago so he'd have DVI w/HDCP and Firewire - to make it "future-proof".

rlindo

· #15 · May 12, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPanther95
I hope you guys are right, but I doubt this will scare the studios away from implementing ICT. Game machines will not make up a huge percentage of disc buyers, and any blowback from agitated consumers will likely be directed at the hardware manufacturers who deliberately left off the HDMI connection.

exactly. studios arent going to base their business on two friggin game consoles.

I would hope the studios wouldn't start using ICT but to think Sony somehow will control their fate by their ****** version of the PS3 is pretty far fetched...IMO. I love Sony not making this info known to the masses. I'll laugh if the 500 pS3 sells well and then owners start bbeign pissed off when they find out they needed hdmi. hahaha

Oh and I think MS not having hdmi on the hd-dvd drive is silly.

Both these companies are being silly and no doubt wont share the info of ICT wiht the masses since it could hurt sales...IMO

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Q of BanditZ

· #16 · May 12, 2006

I'm disappointed that this so-called format war leaked into gaming at all.

BuGsArEtAsTy

· #17 · May 12, 2006

Well besides the consoles being component-only, the other point is that none of the studios are using ICT at this time.

If they aren't using it now then it seems pointless and very bad PR to add it later. If they were really going to use it, then they should have started with the very first titles. Adding it later is almost like having the launch titles for DVD be region free, and then 1 year later all the discs are region-locked.

Then again, one can never underestimate the illogic behind some of these decisions.

Quote:

Oh and I think MS not having hdmi on the hd-dvd drive is silly.

It would be almost impossible to have HDMI on the drive itself and not have it cost twice as much. It makes much more sense to add it to the 360, and it's theoretically plausible than they can do this on existing units via a dongle, assuming the hardware is there, and the GPU (like other current ATI GPUs) already supports HDCP. Basically all the drive does is send over the compressed data. It's basically a standard PC drive, without all the goodies needed to play back HD video.

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efranzen

· #18 · May 12, 2006

It appears that yes, infact, some studios are pissed. Alex had this to say in the big thread.

Quote:

The $499 PS3 not only doesn't support HDMI, it too is limited to 1080i max (no 1080p support in the chipset)...confirmed by Sony. So much for the "real HD is 1080p" line. When questioned by the BBC on this issue Thursday, Phil Harrison of SCE said: "What we should be clear about is that the functionality is identical in both machines. There's no difference in what the machine does....it's just that the technical method of extracting audio and video from the devices is slightly different." Later Thursday, the story changed, and SCE confirmed no HDMI and a max 1080i output through the AV Multi-Out...also, lossy 5.1 is the "highest quality" audio option for this SKU.

The no-HDMI support for the $499 PS3 "stunned" Hollywood insiders. Said CED: "Spokespeople for the major studios declined comment on the situation Thurs., pending a statement from SCE on its rationale for leaving off the HDMI."

To take it over the top, Kuturagi pi$$ed off Sony's Blu-ray partners (and studios) by noting that the PS3 wasn't a trojan horse for getting Blu-ray into homes: "The PS3 uses the Blu-ray Disc because it can store a large amount of data. This is to enhance the power of the PS3, not to spread the Blu-ray standard." Disney and Fox were not amused.

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CPanther95

· #19 · May 12, 2006

That quote from Kuturagi is hard to believe. What is the actual source of that?

efranzen

· #20 · May 12, 2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by CPanther95
That quote from Kuturagi is hard to believe. What is the actual source of that?

I copied that from Alex's post in the big thread. Here's the entire post.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&post7645307

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