sub $1000 preamp?

There seem to be two takes on the outlaw. 1) It's a joke and you'd be better off with anything else including a standard reciever. 2) It's the greatest thing since sliced bread/giant killer/best bang for the buck/etc....


I have owned a 950 for almost two years now and I fall at about the 1.75 mark. For me, it dosen't fall at the full '2' mark because of a few flaws that are somewhat annoying, but don't detract from what the main purpose of th unit. Which is, of course, to be transparent. Fantastic sound both for movies and music.


Other than that I suppose you could pick at the usual criticisms of this product.....outdated, poor remote, or just plain butt-ugly. But the biggest problem I find with it is the ungodly long lock-on time for the audio signal. I've learned to live with it because I can't affford anything else, and it just sounds so damn sweet.


The biggest bonus this unit has going for it is the company itself. I have not been treated this well by a consumer electronics company since.....well, since never. You can pose any questions at outlawaudio.com. They are very fair and helpful.

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One possibility is that removing the amp section from the unit eliminates a possible source of noise and makes shielding (which is not always that great in receivers) not as vital.


A couple of other reasons many people prefer separates: (1) Why pay for a receiver's internal amps if you're not going to use them? Theoretically, without the expense of the internal amps, the pre/pro could either be less expensive than the receiver or slightly beefed up in component quality and/or features than a comparably priced receiver. (2) Much less changes with amps from year to year compared to processors (i.e., new Dolby formats, connection options, and processing power) so that it would make sense to have a separate amp you can hang onto for several years and just buy a new pre/pro when the technology advances.


Unfortunately, most pre/pro's are so much more expensive than comparably featured receivers that the idea of buying a new one every few years has not been very cost effective.

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I have thought the same thing myself. To add to the video switching/upscaling comment, why do these all need like 8 or 9 analog in's? I tend to think nowadays that they can get away with 4 or 5 at most, with lot's of digital ins.


I'm looking at my setup and I can't help but think of all the composite/s-video and analog in's on my processor and preamp going to waste.


But then again, I think about this: Most are buying/upgrading based on not audio but features like video upconversion, room correction, new surround formats, updated DSP's/DAC's. Not always the case, but I really tend to think the audio typically has very little to do with the decision.


Case in point, the suggestion that the Outlaw 950 is outdated? Is it really? It has DPL2, a Cirrus 7.1 channel mode and even does bass management on the 5/1 inputs in the analog domain. Yet to hear people talk here you would think it now sounds horrible. "Yeah, 3 years ago is, like, FOREVER! They may as well be listening through their old 80's ghetto blaster..."


No one can blame companies for packing every last gimick into their machines to try and get the flavour of the month status and sell like hotcakes. But some more minimalist options would make things interesting.


And the reciever of the quarter goes to, drum roll please, H/K 635!! Move over Denon 3805, you had your chance...

SONICS

B&K (along with Marantz, Integra, Nakamichi, Sony) is making or once made a prepro that is the same as one of their receivers. If you think that hooking up big 2 channel B&K amp to a B&K Ref30 receiver vs the sister AVR305 receiver will give any more than a 1% improvement, you must be smoking some good s%#&! It's funny how some people said the Outlaw 950 iis the equal of the megabucks' receivers preamp section (ie, the Denon 5803 in SQ)----if Outlaw added seven 80 watt amp channels to the $899 original retail 950 and increased the price to $1299, these claims would be reduced because now the Outlaw is "just a receiver" and probably competes with the less expensive Denon 4802, mabye even the 3805.


PRICING & MARKETING

The Ref30 retailed ~ 2700, and the AVR305 retail ~ 3000...so for only 300 bucks more, you get the same prepro and 5 quality B&K 100 watt amp channels. At least B&K has already been selling separate amplifiers for many years.....Why would companies that don't even have a current amp product line or distribution go through the trouble of creating R&D, Marketing, Production, Distribution of a few power amp and prepro models to sell a prepro for significantly less dollars than the sister receiver...and to a much smaller market (enthusiasts on the forums, cause they ain't in the mass market retail chains).

As others noted, the only cheap pre-proc available are the outlaw, and the now the emotiva. Others who want a decent pre-amp proc at a receiver price with all the features just buy the receiver and use an outboard amp.


I really think folks who want high quality pre-proc at a good price, our only option is the used market. For example, if you want a HIGH quality pre-proc, that just may not have all the latest formats or video switching but are high quality processors ...for basic DD DTS processors that will knock your socks off, a few off the top of my head


B&K Ref 30

Proceed AVP (heard one, it's one of the best I've every heard)

Lexicon MC-1

EAD Ovation

Well many thanks to all for the valuable information...


.... even though my Carver 5 ch amp is a bit wimpy, no one seems to believe that a Marantz 7500, Denon 3805, or H/K reciever would have better amps or sound.


So I am back to my original delimma.... do I buy a new pre/pro just to get component video switching?


Sure it would be neat to have a new piece of gear.... but I am happy with the sound of my current system.... and $600 to $1000 is quite a chunck of change if all I was really after was component video switching.


I have learned alot of interesting things.... and you have all provided some very good feedback. Probably saved me the money I was going to spend.... still on the fence.... but pretty much decided to just keep what I have for now. The money would probably be better spent on a REAL set of surround speakers. Hhmmm .... time to go look at Paradigm or maybe PSB.... see ya.