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Discussion Starter #1
I have just finished putting together a home theater system about 6 months back. It is a 16 x 20 x 8 room (not air-tight but has a door that I close while watching movies) and I have a projector screen on the 16-inch wall. The MLP is 15 ft from this wall. As I wasn't familiar with this forum back then and was only basing my purchases on Amazon reviews, I went with a BIC PL200 for my setup. I got it for $259 in a sale Amazon was running and it isn't bad for that price. Now that I am reading posts on this forum and seeing 20Hz db numbers of the subs, I feel like I am missing something. My usage is 70% movies and 30% music.

Here is rest of my setup:
Denon AVR-e400
Def Tech SM350 Front L/R (x-over 60hz)
Def Tech PC2000 center (x-over 80hz)
Def Tech Promonitor 1000 rears (x-over 80hz)
Def Tech Promonitor 800 front-heights (x-over 100z)
All x-overs are set by Audyssey.


I was going to add a second PL200 this year but planning to drop that idea. The alternative I am thinking is to buy a Rythmik LV12R to replace PL200 this year and add a second LV12R later on. I want to keep my budget around $1000 total for the subs (single or dual). Please let me know if I am on right track with this idea.

The alternatives that I am considering are dual PB1000s (LV12R seems to better than this based on reviews) OR a single PB2000 OR a single HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP. Thanks!
 

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The Rythmik LV12 is a very good sub and two of those will rock your room.
 
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It seems your on the same path I was on. My first sub was the psw505. It was well reviewed on Amazon and I'd never been on this forum before. Then I found the forum and wanted to try something nicer, so I went with an sb2000. Now I'll clarify that this wasn't my first choice, I got a great deal on a used one, and it had that waf thing going. But really I wanted something ported, and I've wonder ever since. So my advice would be buy the one you really want, add a second later if you wish and funds allow. If you can stretch it, the Hsu seems like quite the sub, although (2) rythmiks would be nice too. To be honest, my search for my third sub started with the pb2000. I quickly learned that it's greatly outclassed by the new vtf3mk5, so I'd cross that one off
 

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I have just finished putting together a home theater system about 6 months back. It is a 16 x 20 x 8 room (not air-tight but has a door that I close while watching movies) and I have a projector screen on the 16-inch wall. The MLP is 15 ft from this wall. As I wasn't familiar with this forum back then and was only basing my purchases on Amazon reviews, I went with a BIC PL200 for my setup. I got it for $259 in a sale Amazon was running and it isn't bad for that price. Now that I am reading posts on this forum and seeing 20Hz db numbers of the subs, I feel like I am missing something. My usage is 70% movies and 30% music.

Here is rest of my setup:
Denon AVR-e400
Def Tech SM350 Front L/R (x-over 60hz)
Def Tech PC2000 center (x-over 80hz)
Def Tech Promonitor 1000 rears (x-over 80hz)
Def Tech Promonitor 800 front-heights (x-over 100z)
All x-overs are set by Audyssey.


I was going to add a second PL200 this year but planning to drop that idea. The alternative I am thinking is to buy a Rythmik LV12R to replace PL200 this year and add a second LV12R later on. I want to keep my budget around $1000 total for the subs (single or dual). Please let me know if I am on right track with this idea.

The alternatives that I am considering are dual PB1000s (LV12R seems to better than this based on reviews) OR a single PB2000 OR a single HSU VTF-3 MK5 HP. Thanks!
With a 1000 dollar budget i would recommend dual Marty cubes. It's roughly 850-900 dollars. I personally wouldn't waste time chasing big bass with a 12". I tried the PB2000 in a room smaller then yours and it did nothing for me. Dual Marty cubes on the other hand :D .

2 18" drivers and a 1000 watts a piece compared to what in that same price range? :roll eyes:

If you must buy commercial i would recommend 15" driver from PSA and HSU.
PSA has free shipping both ways. Cost you nothing to try it.



Regards, Dr.H
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks guys. Marty cubes look great - this is the first time I heard about this sub. I searched on the forum and saw some nicely finished DIY marty cubes. But unfortunately, I will have to buy the woodworking tools and learn skills while I do it (including listening to my wife on how I am wasting time :D).

Based on the comments here, I think that I can strike off PB1000s for LV12Rs and PB2000 for HSU VTF-3 MK5. Now out of these two choices:
Dual LV12Rs (12-inch) OR
Single HSU VTF-3 MK5 (15-inch)

Do you think that the performance of these two options would be similar? If similar, I will go with HSU. My room is a rectangle 16x20 and the sub goes below the screen.
 

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VTF3 vs dual LV12rs is a tough one. Dual LV12rs will have pretty good output, expension, and it will have a better frequency response- if you have freedom of subwoofer placement to permit that. A VTF3 will have more output, but can not match the frequency response and room smoothing capabilities of dual subs. The choice here is between more power or more linearity. Get the best of both worlds: dual VTF3s!
 

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Thanks guys. Marty cubes look great - this is the first time I heard about this sub. I searched on the forum and saw some nicely finished DIY marty cubes. But unfortunately, I will have to buy the woodworking tools and learn skills while I do it (including listening to my wife on how I am wasting time :D).

Based on the comments here, I think that I can strike off PB1000s for LV12Rs and PB2000 for HSU VTF-3 MK5. Now out of these two choices:
Dual LV12Rs (12-inch) OR
Single HSU VTF-3 MK5 (15-inch)

Do you think that the performance of these two options would be similar? If similar, I will go with HSU. My room is a rectangle 16x20 and the sub goes below the screen.
There are lots of people that have woodworking tools I am not one of them. If you are interested go to DIYSoundGroup look at the sub flatpacks ( wood is already cut ) you can get a 4 cu.ft. kit for 120 the sub whether you go new or "B" stock 174 or 160 shipped a Inuke nu 3000amp 200.00 depending on how you finish it add another 100 this would also include cables connectors etc. I built mine with a cordless drill some gorilla glue sanded it smooth put some Restore4X, my sub can play down to 16-15hz if you went this route and you decide to add another ( its almost like the old Lays Potato Chip commercial " nobody can eat just one " in this case nobody can have just one ) you can build the second for roughly another 300. All I can say if you built 2 and you spent 1100 tops for both there is not a lot you can buy already built that will compare.
Just my 2 cents.:)
 

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^^

Except a DIY direct servo sub :D
 

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^^

Except a DIY direct servo sub :D
I am sure that is very true but what is the difference in cost between the Stereo Integrity HT18D4 174 shipped versus the Rythmik version? I just think IMHO great bass 2 18"s including amp enclosures altogether not a bad deal.:)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Something like this can be doable for rookie like me:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/dayton15-cube-kit.html

But will it outperform LV12R and close in performance to VTF-3 MK5? I understand that these bus can play louder at lower frequencies. But how do they perform for music - do they have tight bass?
 

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Something like this can be doable for rookie like me:
http://www.diysoundgroup.com/dayton15-cube-kit.html

But will it outperform LV12R and close in performance to VTF-3 MK5? I understand that these bus can play louder at lower frequencies. But how do they perform for music - do they have tight bass?
If you like looking at measurements to compare different subs go to

http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems
Here you will see what the different subs can do, examples being max spl, lowest freq. etc. You can even find numerous DIY builds.

For what its worth I listen to mostly movies and when no one is around music. I am into older bands such as YES Pink Floyd The Who Joe Walsh etc no complaints but these bands do not have very deep bass, I am really starting to get into movies with my Marty Cube. I just watched Oblivion, the furniture, floor was shaking!! I have the movie theater experience at home its great.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Update:
I have dropped the idea of going DIY for the sub and sold my PL200 last month. I have been researching on various sub choices and reading posts on this forum rigorously since last 6-7 months (now my brain is very close to bursting :D). I am planning to order a sub by this Friday.

Now coming to the subwoofer choice and a new conundrum. Hsu VTF3 MK5 was my final choice for my 2600cuft room based on my research and suggestions received. The depth of VTF-15H MK2 (28 inch) is too much and won't work in my room. But I just noticed that the depth of Echo 15 is little less than VTF 15H at 26 inches and I can try to fit it in.

Question: Will Echo 15 be a better choice for me than VTF3? There is a cost differential and more wait time for Echo 15 but I am willing to wait if there are benefits. FWIW - I am without a subwoofer since a month now and can obviously wait some more. Thanks for your help in advance.
 

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If you want to keep your budget at around $1000, get 2 Rythmik L12 or LV12R and don't look back. The bass smoothing capabilities of two subs on opposite walls can't be understated, and the sound quality of these servo subs is unmatched by anything in this price range.

If you buy two, you get 10% off of each one.

Get the L12 if you're tight on space. It's amazing what Brian was able to get a 14" cube to do. It's basically an F12 with 1-2db less output and simplified controls.

Get the LV12R if you have a bit more room (and a few more dollars).

I got 2 F12s, and put one on the front wall and one on the rear wall and the results are fantastic.
 

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Now coming to the subwoofer choice and a new conundrum. Hsu VTF3 MK5 was my final choice for my 2600cuft room based on my research and suggestions received. The depth of VTF-15H MK2 (28 inch) is too much and won't work in my room. But I just noticed that the depth of Echo 15 is little less than VTF 15H at 26 inches and I can try to fit it in.

Question: Will Echo 15 be a better choice for me than VTF3? There is a cost differential and more wait time for Echo 15 but I am willing to wait if there are benefits. FWIW - I am without a subwoofer since a month now and can obviously wait some more. Thanks for your help in advance.
RA Echo 15 will give you the most output under $1000. Output wise, Echo 15 should give you about 2 dB more output from 16 ~ 80 Hz over Hsu VTF3 MK5.

RA offers 5 year amp/driver warranty, free shipping both ways. It is also made in USA with the Ice Power Amp, the same amp used by JTR.

If you purchase Hsu's extended warranty on the amp, it would be an extra $70. So Hsu VTF3-MK5 HP with 5 yr amp/7yr driver warranty is more like $960 vs RA Echo 15 $1000.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks @chucky7. I understand that Echo 15 will have more output than VTF3.

How is the Echo 15's sound quality compared to VTF3? I don't see any graphs on the RA website showing the frequency response for this sub - however, Hsu website has frequency response graph showing a flat line. VTF3 has also been recommended by its owners and has reviews (Jim Wilson's review), but I am unable to find any reviews for Echo15.
 

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IMO, start with a single VTF-3 MK5. If you don't need more output, you're done. If you do, add a second one when funds permit.
Would also recommend this route - can speak nothing but praise for the subwoofer after about 2 months of ownership in a room roughly the same size. The unit is a monster and likely to meet your needs alone, but can always add a second down the road if/when the mood fits (that's my plan...just don't tell the Mrs. :)).
 

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If you can up your budget a bit, it will give you a lot more options. I know money is tight these days but maybe you can cut out some Starbucks and eating out for a couple of months if possible. If you can squeeze another $300 or $400 on the budget, I would look at some 18" offerings from PSA or Reaction. If the budget is cemented, I agree with @chucky7 about the Echo 15. In addition to the extra output over the HSU, it is made in America which is important to me.

What part of NC are you from? I grew up in Zebulon which is right outside the Raleigh area.
 
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