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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I know this topic has been brought up before, but most of the posts on the subject are a few years old and I want to make sure I'm getting the best current advice.


I'm starting to build up a HT system built around Magnepan speakers. This is going into a 20' x 12' x 9' sunken living room that is open to a large kitchen and decent-sized dining area on two sides. Excellent music is my main concern, particularly classical, but I want an excellent HT experience too.


Monetary constraints are an issue, so I'm planning to build this setup in phases. Phase 1 will be 2 MMG's and a sub. Phase 2 will procure larger LR speakers (1.7s?) and demote the MMG's to satellite duty. Phase 3 will add a center channel and perhaps dual subs if needed. Phase 4 will involve construction of an underground lair, development of death ray technology, deployment of an army of cyborg minions, maniacal laughter, etcetera, but is less relevant to this forum.


I'd like to keep phase 1 in the $1500 range, and the MMGs cost $600, but I have a little flexibility. I don't want to buy something and replace it in a few years like my last system


Previous threads suggest a few possibilities for tight subs that go well with the Maggie sound. Rythmik seems to be the most popular choice. Of the three possibilities, I would expect that the F-12 SE would have a slightly tighter sound compared to the F15 or D-15 given the 12 in the first vs. 15 woofers in the latter two. Is this correct? Since the price on all three is comparable, I want to get the most bang for my buck (Pun admittedly intended, but not literally since all three should have more power than I expect to need).


I've also seen Outlaw spoken highly of for this sort of application. It's considerably less for a LFM-1 compact or higher. I would rather pay the lower prices for the Outlaws if possible so I can move on to phase 2 sooner, but don't want to cut corners if I'll regret it later. If anyone does recommend an Outlaw, which models should I consider?


Finally what other subs should I be looking at?


Thanks in advance for the help!



Paul
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulForster /forum/post/18193607


I know this topic has been brought up before, but most of the posts on the subject are a few years old and I want to make sure I'm getting the best current advice.


I'm starting to build up a HT system built around Magnepan speakers. This is going into a 20' x 12' x 9' sunken living room that is open to a large kitchen and decent-sized dining area on two sides. Excellent music is my main concern, particularly classical, but I want an excellent HT experience too.


Monetary constraints are an issue, so I'm planning to build this setup in phases. Phase 1 will be 2 MMG's and a sub. Phase 2 will procure larger LR speakers (1.7s?) and demote the MMG's to satellite duty. Phase 3 will add a center channel and perhaps dual subs if needed. Phase 4 will involve construction of an underground lair, development of death ray technology, deployment of an army of cyborg minions, maniacal laughter, etcetera, but is less relevant to this forum.


I'd like to keep phase 1 in the $1500 range, and the MMGs cost $600, but I have a little flexibility. I don't want to buy something and replace it in a few years like my last system


Previous threads suggest a few possibilities for tight subs that go well with the Maggie sound. Rythmik seems to be the most popular choice. Of the three possibilities, I would expect that the F-12 SE would have a slightly tighter sound compared to the F15 or D-15 given the 12 in the first vs. 15 woofers in the latter two. Is this correct? Since the price on all three is comparable, I want to get the most bang for my buck (Pun admittedly intended, but not literally since all three should have more power than I expect to need).


I've also seen Outlaw spoken highly of for this sort of application. It's considerably less for a LFM-1 compact or higher. I would rather pay the lower prices for the Outlaws if possible so I can move on to phase 2 sooner, but don't want to cut corners if I'll regret it later. If anyone does recommend an Outlaw, which models should I consider?


Finally what other subs should I be looking at?


Thanks in advance for the help!



Paul

I used a pair of Rthymik D15SE's with MMGs and 1.6 for music and HT. The D15SE's excelled at both. Though I have not owned the 12" subs from Rythmik I would be very surprised if it would sound any different than the 15" subs assuming the same driver type and amp (excluding output of course-the 15" will have the edge given its larger enclosure and driver cone area).


Given your budget and room area I'd recommend one D/F15 to start and see if it provides sufficient output. If not, add a second when funds permit.


Good luck.


Eric
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I've pretty much settled on Rythmik based on the strong support it has in these forums. Which size should I get? The only difference is an extra $40 to ship the larger 15", so that's negligable. I was leaning towards the 12" since I have the (possibly ignorant) impression that I'll get slightly tighter base. The extra 3db of volume isn't a big issue for me - I should be able to annoy my neighbors more than enough without pushing either unit much. Can anyone enlighten me more on the relative advantages/disadvantages of the two, and what the differences between the side- and down-firing 15s are?
 

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I have the F-15 and it sounds great. Plenty of output and very clean. I've never heard a sub sound so controlled, musical, and still shake a concrete floor. My last sub was a Velo F1200 servo and there is NO comparison. For reference, I'm running Sonus Faber Toy Towers (high spl without distortion) and this sub keeps up nicely.
 

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Since you say music is paramount, and the maggies don't really play that loud; then the best sub would be a pair of DIY dipoles.
 

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Smaller subwoofers are not necessarily "faster" (a questionable argument in the subwoofer bands anyway). In The Olden Days speaker cones were not as rigid and tended to break up more readily, and it was tough getting amplifiers with high damping factors and high power, and feedback control (servo loops) were virtually nonexistent. Smaller cones were easier to drive due to their lower driving area (for a given excursion) and thus worked better with the amps we had. Now, Class D and servo has given everybody (who is anybody
) the ability to implement a clean, high-power subwoofer amp and cone size doesn't matter. In fact, one could make the argument that, because the larger cone need move less to produce equivalent volume, a larger cone could have lower distortion. Countering this is the requirement that the cone be very rigid, something easier to accomplish with a smaller cone. Again, modern materials have made this moot for most.


I am debating a pair of 12" vs. pair of 15" -- I prefer a stereo pair. I will likely go with the 12" for price and convenience (size), not because I think they'll be "faster". Which I ultimately order will depend on what fits since I anticipate the sound will be similar, and with two 12" subs I do not think output volume in my relatively small media room will be an issue.


All imo - Don
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse S /forum/post/18201000


Since you say music is paramount, and the maggies don't really play that loud; then the best sub would be a pair of DIY dipoles.

Where did you get this from?! My 1.6's are crystal clear way louder than my brain and ears can take... give them room to breath and lots of clean power and they will be VERY loud.


Many years ago, yes, Maggies couldn't be super load, but that history.
 

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I do not think you'll hear any significant difference between the 12" and 15" subs.


Depending on your crossover, you may prefer front-firing subs. I do, mainly because if there's any energy up around 80 - 100 Hz or so (opinions vary) then a bit of directionality creeps in, and I have always felt that front-firing reproduces the kick of a drum a bit better than down-firing. For organ and most other music it probably doesn't matter, and I have too little HT experience to say. I also don't like the idea of down-firing losing energy to the carpet and/or exciting the floor, but in reality that's probably a very minor issue. People say great things about both.


FWIWFM - Don
 

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fwiw, i use a svs 16-46 pc plus upgraded to the latest version of their driver. blends beautifully and seamlessly w/ my maggie mc1's and cc3. i see there's currently a listing for it's little (and louder) brother over at audiogon.
 

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Rythmik Audio F12G for $750.
 
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