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Quote:
Originally Posted by dookie1 /forum/post/15537549


been reading a bunch here and learned a lot...enough to have a plan even! however, i would appreciate a reality check...and maybe even a slap in the head (
) if i've missed/misinterpreted anything.


here's the relevant equipment / details:
  • yamaha rx-v2600 (output labeled as 'subwoofer', menu adjustments refer to 'LFE' and 'subwoofer' separately)
  • def tech bp2006tl mains (8" x 250w integrated 'sub', 4.75" mids, def tech says flat response to 33hz, have both speaker level and LFE inputs...internal x-over sums the lows from both inputs)
  • def tech clr2300 center (same driver arrangement, no LFE in)

usage is almost entirely theatre (i have a nice 2-channel for serious music). room is ~3800cuft (30' x 16' x 8'), and in short i believe that the room is too big and/or the subs are undersized. with the sub levels raised to the point of adequate SPL, it's flat-out muddy (overdriven?). more significantly, the truly low end rumble isn't there (and never has been, even w/ 3x 8" / 250w 'subs'). i want what we all want...tight, accurate, punch!


so the obvious answer (at least to me) would appear to be a standalone sub. no, i'm not sure which one yet. leading contenders are the SVS PB12-NSD and the hsu VTF3.3. in any case, my dilemma is how to best integrate a true sub with the def tech pseudo-subs.


current receiver settings (pre-standalone sub)
  • all sources output digital bitstream (via HDMI and S/PDIF coax) to receiver, which handles all decoding
  • 'large' fronts & center
  • 'bass out' to subwoofer (other choices are 'both' and 'front')
  • 80hz 'bass x-over' (choices 40/60/80/90/100/110/120/160/200hz)
  • normal sub phase
  • 0db 'LFE level' (range is -20db - 0db)
  • there is also a 'subwoofer speaker level' adjustment (-10db - +10db) that was set using avia and an SPL meter


there are also sub level controls on the speakers themselves...set to def techs recommendations (1 o'clock mains, 2 o'clock center...whatever that means), so as to provide a constant there, with all tuning done at the receiver. speakers are currently connected using both speaker-level and LFE inputs, making the receiver x-over setting largely irrelevant i guess.


so, gory detail behind us...


my plan is to move the receiver subwoofer output away from the fronts and connect it only to the true sub, using the receiver x-over to cut out the lows sent to the front stage. my thinking is that this will let the 8" 'subs' up there function more as mid-bass. i'm not sure where the x-over is between the (small) midrange drivers and the 8" 'subs', and i want to make sure the 8" have something to do! i envision the true sub located near field, with no corner loading.


other than the connection change, the only other change i see is in the receiver x-over frequency. def tech recommends a 'fairly low' x-over setting...40-50hz. my choices are 40 or 60. i realize there are slopes, but where would that 40-60hz info be better realized...at the 12" big hitter or the 8"? again, def tech says they're flat to 33hz, and i believe the x-over to the mids is ~80hz (which seems awfully low for the 12cm mid drivers).


obviously, the entire setup will be recalibrated w/avia once the changes are in place.


final question...how about the LFE level setting? i see in the sticky that this channel is designed to be boosted by 10db and should be handled correctly by the receiver's decoder. so that means set at 0db on my system...calibrate there and leave it there?


thanks for any/all input, and phew...sorry to ramble!

Let me just suggest you get two 12" subs and set your crossover to 80Hz on your receiver. (Ignore the pseudo subs.) Regarding the dB, setting you or your receiver will calibrate that after you get (a) new sub(s).
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson /forum/post/15579578


Too much to read. Ask an explicit question or two.

...which is always followed by 'more information is needed to answer that.' as an ME by trade, i tend to err on the more info side of things.


but thanks for your concise reply!


here's a simple ?:


assuming identical pricing...pair of used PB12-NSDs (w/'new' amps), or single MFW-15?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs /forum/post/15580982


why would you need a sub if you have two built in subs already?

I think he is saying that in order to listen at the levels he likes to, he has to drive the subs to the point where the output is so distorted that it sounds muddy.


OP, your room is too big for your built in subs. Do what allargon suggested or get one big bad-ass sub.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond Leggs /forum/post/15580982


why would you need a sub if you have two built in subs already?

So-called built-in subs are really not subs.
 

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I gave you QUITE a detailed response in your other thread, dookie1.
 
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