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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I am completely vexed!!!


I have read everywhere that sub frequencies are the weakest in the middle of the room, yet EVERYWHERE every diagram of an "ideal" 5.1 setup places the listener in the middle of the room. Very rarely do I see or sit in a home theater setup with my back to a wall. The rear speakers are almost always recommended to be placed on the side or rear walls (BEHIND) the listener. Also, in the case of a 7.1 setup, if your back is to the wall, where do the 2 rear channels go? On the ceiling pointing straight down?


I have put my BIC H-100 in every spot in my apt. (That sounded funny) Tilting, turning, behind me, in front, to the side, and tried putting the sub where I sit and crawling around the room technique. Yet still, where I sit the bass is near absent. I will lean forward 2-3 feet and the bass is very pronounced. And it's really getting to me. I'm missing so much w/ music and movies and my landlord has already complained about bass that I can't even hear.


help...
 

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You do not want your back to the wall. The center of the room and along the back wall are both bad seating positions. along the back wall, the bass may sound very strong, but the frequency response is likely to be very uneven. The best position is likely to be away from the walls, but either several feet forward or behind the center.
 

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Put the sub where you SIT, then crawl around the floor till you find the best spot for bass, where you can then put the sub.


Seems to work.
 

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The BIC H100 is a good cost effective unit.

Ya, the middle of the room is always bad (well at least most of the time). I've got a good null in the middle myself and am running duals. No matter where I place the subs (along the walls) I can't get the null to be gone! So, the diagrams you speak of showing optimal setups of speakers really don't consider typical standing waves in the bass region that'll develope nulls and peaks. They're depicting the ideal speaker location relative to the listener. So, don't take them too literally. If the above posters' suggestions don't alleviate your woes, then definitely move your seat back or forward (likely back) a bit to get out of the null. It's just the nature of the center of a room and these big bass waves.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by templetun /forum/post/16870402


I am completely vexed!!!


I have read everywhere that sub frequencies are the weakest in the middle of the room, yet EVERYWHERE every diagram of an "ideal" 5.1 setup places the listener in the middle of the room. Very rarely do I see or sit in a home theater setup with my back to a wall. The rear speakers are almost always recommended to be placed on the side or rear walls (BEHIND) the listener. Also, in the case of a 7.1 setup, if your back is to the wall, where do the 2 rear channels go? On the ceiling pointing straight down?


I have put my BIC H-100 in every spot in my apt. (That sounded funny) Tilting, turning, behind me, in front, to the side, and tried putting the sub where I sit and crawling around the room technique. Yet still, where I sit the bass is near absent. I will lean forward 2-3 feet and the bass is very pronounced. And it's really getting to me. I'm missing so much w/ music and movies and my landlord has already complained about bass that I can't even hear.


help...



If you seating poistion is placed against the rear wall (as a lot are), you just stick with a 5.1 speaker setup. There is no rear to be had.


The bass will be more pronounced at a rear wall seating position, so you may have to turn the subwoofer down a touch. The center of the room will never be good for bass unless you have a room a big as Yankee Stadium. Move the seats forward or back in the room!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by templetun /forum/post/16870402


I will lean forward 2-3 feet and the bass is very pronounced.

Move your chair/sofa forward 2 feet? Otherwise, the put the sub in your seat and find the bass suggestion is a good one.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ludivigo /forum/post/16874291


Move your chair/sofa forward 2 feet? Otherwise, the put the sub in your seat and find the bass suggestion is a good one.

yup. try this.


i have read that the ideal location for seating is about 1/3 from the front wall or 1/3 from the back wall. dead center is never good, and right up against the back wall is never good either.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ethan Winer /forum/post/16875028


That's terrible advice. Here's what I suggest:

How to set up a room


--Ethan

nice!


the only part i don't understand and don't like is where it says that you should offset everything a few inches to one side (left or right) so you aren't dead center in the room. i understand the reasoning behind this but what i don't like about this is the fact that each speaker will now be a different distance from the side walls which will cause uneven frequency response between the two mains and the surrounds at the center listening position. i have everything symmetrical (width wise) in my room and it sound much better this way for music since response is more symmetrical.


i also have plenty of bass without EQing any extra in. i'm not doubting your advice but i think you have to pick the lesser of two evils, less even response between left and right or a little more bass.


i could be totally wrong with everything i am saying, so i am patiently waiting to see your response.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks for the help guys. here are the buts:


I have tried the crawling around the room technique to no avail.


My couch is kind of sandwiched between my tv and my desk. If I move the couch any more forward I would be too close, and and more back I compromise the mobility of my computer-desk chair.


I always wondered how typical movie theaters got around this. The best place to sit in a movie theater typically is in the middle.


I am thinking that room acoustics are permanent, unchangeable. I live in an apartment with FTF carpet and about 7 foot ceilings.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by templetun /forum/post/16875314


Thanks for the help guys. here are the buts:


I have tried the crawling around the room technique to no avail.


My couch is kind of sandwiched between my tv and my desk. If I move the couch any more forward I would be too close, and and more back I compromise the mobility of my computer-desk chair.

I always wondered how typical movie theaters got around this. The best place to sit in a movie theater typically is in the middle.


I am thinking that room acoustics are permanent, unchangeable. I live in an apartment with FTF carpet and about 7 foot ceilings.

they don't get around it. in a movie theater if you want the most bass you have to sit in 1/3 increments and a little to one side. not directly in the middle. all the info in Ethan's link/write up are correct and will still apply in a commercial theater.


have you tried your sub in a nearfield placement? like behind the couch?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
im going to try that 38% rule and see how that goes.


I get a lot of bass when I stand up and usually along the walls.


I was thinking of getting an spl meter from Radio shack, playing a test tone from the sub only and then walk around the room to find the best position too, but I have never used an spl meter and wonder if they are designed for bass frequencies.


What do you guys think about using tower speakers instead of a speaker like the Klipsch Quintets? thinking theoretically that a larger woofer at more ear level will "send" or throw bass frequencies to where I am. I am coming to terms that sub frequencies and room acoustics are unchangeable.


BTW, do you guys have your rear or side surrounds ear level or mounted high on the wall?


thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcjasonb /forum/post/16875341


they don't get around it. in a movie theater if you want the most bass you have to sit in 1/3 increments and a little to one side. not directly in the middle. all the info in Ethan's link/write up are correct and will still apply in a commercial theater.


have you tried your sub in a nearfield placement? like behind the couch?


yup, behind, left & right side of couch like a coffee table.


here's a quick sketch:
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by templetun /forum/post/16875458


im going to try that 38% rule and see how that goes.


I get a lot of bass when I stand up and usually along the walls.


I was thinking of getting an spl meter from Radio shack, playing a test tone from the sub only and then walk around the room to find the best position too, but I have never used an spl meter and wonder if they are designed for bass frequencies.


What do you guys think about using tower speakers instead of a speaker like the Klipsch Quintets? thinking theoretically that a larger woofer at more ear level will "send" or throw bass frequencies to where I am. I am coming to terms that sub frequencies and room acoustics are unchangeable.


BTW, do you guys have your rear or side surrounds ear level or mounted high on the wall?


thanks.

an spl meter from radio shack would work well in that case. that may help if you are having a tough time hearing wher the bass is loudest.


tower speakers are always a good thing. they will help fill in the bass down to where ever you set the crossover point. if you set them at 80hz then you will have better bass down to 80hz. those same rules will apply to speakers though as well, not just the sub bass. the 38% rule will still help the bass become more full just in general. it's more of a matter of the room acoustics than it is the actual speakers.


any good set of speakers should measure relatively flat when measured outside in an open field, but when you throw room acoustics at them this is where the problem is. anytime you apply EQ to your system think of it as Eqing the room, not the speakers. all the tips in Ethan's link will help to get flatter, fuller sounding bass and minimize how much EQ you will have to use.


my sides/rears in my 5.1 setup are about a foot and a half above my ear level when sitting. some will tell you to put them ear level, some will say to put them 2 feet about ear level. try several spots and see what works best for you. i had mine at ear level and they were partially blocked by the back of my couch. i couldn't see the whole speaker when i turned my head, so i raised them up.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by templetun /forum/post/16875506


yup, behind, left & right side of couch like a coffee table.


here's a quick sketch:

how much room is between the couch and the tv?


whats the overall length of the room, and how far is the couch away from the front wall right now?


it's pretty easy to figure out the right spot if you want to follow the 38% rule. simply take the length of the room and multiply it by .38.
 

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I used the 38% rule. You sit 38% from the rear wall for the best bass and it does work.


Bill
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsoko2 /forum/post/16875863


I used the 38% rule. You sit 38% from the rear wall for the best bass and it does work.


Bill

i'm 42% from the front wall. close enough....
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by templetun /forum/post/16875314



I always wondered how typical movie theaters got around this. The best place to sit in a movie theater typically is in the middle.



A movie theater gets around it by the simple fact that the room is very large. Small room mode issues do not apply to large rooms.
 
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