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Sub issue in new home....ground loop?

1446 Views 6 Replies 4 Participants Last post by  (The Other) Colin Miller
12" home built sub (has an older Apex plate amp (300w)) that worked very well in my old home. This is an NHT 1259 based sub should anyone care to know the details. 3 cubic feet sealed box....it rocks. I recently moved and whenever I plug the RCA plug into the line in on the sub, it creates a significant deep hum. I have tried same outlets, same power bar, different outlets etc for the amp and the sub. No difference. When sub is on and not plugged into the receiver it is quiet. I am at a loss. I have had all the capacitors replaced in the amp in the past due to a hum, but as I said it was fine before the move. Home is new build (last year) with I assume modern standards for electrical services. I run a Yamaha RX-A1040 as receiver.

Any suggestions?
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Sounds like a ground loop. Just for grins, try this…. Switch the RCA cable ends. Many RCA cables have the shielding bonded at one end and not the other and will work better that way.

it’s a long shot, but cheap…. :)

if not, you may need to run a grounding wire between your AVR and sub plate amp to bond the metal. That should fix it.
there are other options but they are way more expensive.

that said, I’d be curious about the wiring in your new place. If things are wired properly you shouldn’t get a ground loop since you never had that issues before.

Things you should check ( only if you know what you are doing!) Are the neutral and ground bonded in the main service panel? Are the neutral and ground separated in all sub panels? Are any neutrals and grounds double tapped anywhere?

anyway, good luck!
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Another cheap test you can run is using a ground elimination plug. Basically and 3 prong to 2 prong adapter available at hardware stores for less than $2 USD. This is ONLY for testing and not a fix. We always want things properly grounded but it will help to find the source.

I had a ground loop issue myself and it was actually coming in from the TV over the HDMI cable. So while the sub may be humming, it may not be the source of the problem.
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Another cheap test you can run is using a ground elimination plug. Basically and 3 prong to 2 prong adapter available at hardware stores for less than $2 USD. This is ONLY for testing and not a fix. We always want things properly grounded but it will help to find the source.

I had a ground loop issue myself and it was actually coming in from the TV over the HDMI cable. So while the sub may be humming, it may not be the source of the problem.
along the tv route, I’ve had them from cable/satellite boxes in the past. They are notorious for adding hum…. And being installed poorly without proper grounding outside as well!
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along the tv route, I’ve had them from cable/satellite boxes in the past. They are notorious for adding hum…. And being installed poorly without proper grounding outside as well!
Another guy we helped out on here recently had it coming in over a shielded ethernet cable, but another "hop" out on the chain. It was the ethernet cable between his HTPC and the router. Ground loop coming in over the HDMI from the HTPC to the AVR/Processor. These things can be tricky to track down.
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Another guy we helped out on here recently had it coming in over a shielded ethernet cable, but another "hop" out on the chain. It was the ethernet cable between his HTPC and the router. Ground loop coming in over the HDMI from the HTPC to the AVR/Processor. These things can be tricky to track down.
makes sense, usually introducing any type of "PC" into the mix creates issues because the ground reference level is usually "earth" ground in those, rather than a floating ground that is usually acceptable in all other types of equipment... power will find a way. i saw a youtube video from a guy who was showing why you bond in the service panel, and DON'T bond in sub panels... he clamped his current meter to his gas line for the furnace and it had a couple amps going through it! That's a real bad day waiting to happen!
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All good info.

Ground loops (or other ground-related issues that we call ground loops in a vernacular sense) can be a *****, even if everything is done 'right', because even if all the devices are referencing the 'same' ground, the cables connecting them to ground have some degree of impedance, and if devices have current flowing to ground, one way or another, though those impedances, it creates a voltage potential across the grounding cables, and...

Good grounding practices will minimize the paths to the 'same' ground, like star grounding, but sometimes you have to figure things out. I've seen where making adjustments, that in simple theory wouldn't make a damn bit of difference, were like night and day, obnoxious buzz or no identifiable presence of noise beyond the expected low level hiss of electronics background noise.

Sometimes it is a matter of punting with a ground isolation transformer between equipment, sometimes running a ground wire and electrically connecting a chassis to a chassis, providing an additional ground, using a heavy quad shield RG-6 coax for the audio cable, that doesn't change the grounding scheme, but has much more conductor available to minimize the ground impedance than a typical audio cable, separating the audio signal ground from the chassis safety ground (if that's an option provided by the manufacturer), connecting with a balanced connection (which is more likely to transfer artifacts of a grounding issue, if both ends are actually balanced in terms of voltage and input/output impedance), and maybe even creatively doing alternative connections with a balanced connector, playing with floating the ground, or even mixing ground to'-' connections, between Balanced and Balanced or even Balanced and Unbalanced. Audio Control makes Balanced Line Drivers as well as Balanced Line Receivers that run on 24VAC, that you can get on E-Bay used relatively cheap, usually removed from high-dollar custom installations that are getting renovated one more time, that will allow you to balance and unbalance a signal, with gain adjustments on both ends, and screw down terminals that will let you play with lifting the shield as a ground conductor on either side, as well as maximizing signal to noise ratios by adjusting signal levels up to (but hopefully not beyond) signal clipping, and typically have less low frequency distortion than even high quality transformer-based isolators, but if I was going to use on of those, I'd grab a Jensen, but they aren't cheap.

You can try a headphone adapter to RCA to play something from your phone while it's not charging, guaranteeing that there is no ground issue possible, and if that's fine, the sub is fine. In that case, there is most definitely some kind of fix available, even if it might be as esoteric as converting the signal to digital, sending it over an optical cable, and then converting it back to analog.

BTW, I miss my 1259s. Awesome drivers at the price point at that time. one of my favorite things to come out of Ken Kantor, as well as the NHT Super One.

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