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What’s the simplest easiest way to add a music sub into my setup?

Focal 906
Quad 405
Bluesound Node 2i
10x11 room

I keep reading “Rythmik F12”. I have a Dr. HSU in another room for HT. And, Focal also makes subs.

I listen to Death Metal to Classical to Trance and everything in between.

I’m happy now. I just want to be happier :)
 

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What’s the simplest easiest way to add a music sub into my setup?

Focal 906
Quad 405
Bluesound Node 2i
10x11 room

I keep reading “Rythmik F12”. I have a Dr. HSU in another room for HT. And, Focal also makes subs.

I listen to Death Metal to Classical to Trance and everything in between.

I’m happy now. I just want to be happier :)
If you like your HSU, why not go for a ULS-15 MK2?
 

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I bought a Rythmik F12SE, absolutely love it. It's very pretty also. I use it as end table.
 

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If this is music only, I'd go with a sealed subwoofer. The Rythmic will do nicely. You don't need a very large sub for 10x11 listening area.
 
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If this is music only, I'd go with a sealed subwoofer. The Rythmic will do nicely. You don't need a very large sub for 10x11 listening area.

That`s highly subjective, I have 3-12`s and 2-18`s....I would like 2 more 18`s or a 24 in a 12x12 room....:D
 

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The Node has a built-in crossover and subwoofer output so you shouldn't need to buy any new gear besides the sub itself.

I have a Rythmik L12, I really like it, I was waffling on stretching to an F12 but I live in an apartment with neighbors and they probably already hate me enough. I'd say an advantage of competing models like the SB-3000 would be the ability to tune it with an app instead of constantly running back and forth from the couch to the back of the sub.
 

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I'd find another room , square is never good.......

Yep...square is bad, but in a 480 square foot house options are limited........look at my sig, thats why I am building a entire house as a theater...:D
 

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Yep...square is bad, but in a 480 square foot house options are limited........look at my sig, thats why I am building a entire house as a theater...:D
well since this is a 'two channel' forum thus my point is that in a 12x12 room 4 subs of the size you mention seems ridiculous to me
 

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For music only, sub is NOT that important, don't break your bank on sub.....particular subs. I have another sub, I have no intention in hooking it up, just permanently serves as end table on the other side now.
 

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What’s the simplest easiest way to add a music sub into my setup?

Focal 906
Quad 405
Bluesound Node 2i
10x11 room

I keep reading “Rythmik F12”. I have a Dr. HSU in another room for HT. And, Focal also makes subs.
You are really asking Two Questions, but there is a third that will be quickly added.

What? - That is, what do you want for a Sub or Subs? Any sense of Size or Quantity?

How? - That is, by what method will you do this?

How Much? - How much money do you have to dedicate to the task?

How Big? - By this I mean, what are the Dimensions of the Room?


You have a QUAD Power amp and a Bluesound Node, can we assume you are using the Bluesound Node as a Pre-Amp to the Quad?

Having a break (electrical) between the Pre-Amp and the Power Amp is to your advantage.

But let's first discussed the easiest way to accomplish this -

First we look at the Specs of your Speakers - Focal 906 Bookshelf -

Frequency response: 55-28,000 Hz (±3dB)


You have no Bass Management for the Front Speakers, so you have to set the Sub at the Natural Roll-Off of the Front Speakers. That would mean you would set the Sub Crossover in the roughly 50hz to 55hz range, assuming you want balanced response and smooth integration.

Then it is a matter of setting the Sub Volume until you feel it is balanced with the Focal Front Speakers.

But there is a way where you can choose the Crossover for the Front Speaker, which is generally preferred. This works best if you have a Pre-Amp/Power-Amp system.

You take the output of the Pre-Amp and split it into a "Y" using a "Y" or Splitter Cable. One leg goes to the Subwoofer(s) and the other goes to the Power Amp.

In the Power Amp leg you put an Fixed Crossover, and on the Sub leg, you control the frequency with the Sub Crossover.

Here is a simple Harrison 70hz High Pass (2x$26) that you can put in the Lines to the Power Amp -

https://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-fmod-inline-crossover-pair-70-hz-high-pass-rca--266-272

With these in the Pwr-Amp signal lines, you set the Subwoofer to 70hz and adjust the Sub Volume to taste.

However, there is a more active means of doing this.

MiniDSP 2x4 - (2In/4Out) - $95 -

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4


The MiniDSP has computer controlled DSP signal processing. You run the App/Software to program the MiniDSp, to program the Crossover Slopes and Frequency Location for BOTH the Front and Sub. There are many Videos on YouTube on the MiniDSP. And there are models that have more outputs.

There is an HD Versions and a version with More Inputs and Outputs.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-4x10-hd

The can get pretty expensive though.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-4x10-hd

For most people in home systems, the MiniDSP at $95 is pretty affordable.

Now we know what, in general, you can do, so now we concentrate on the Specifics.

How much money do you have to spend?

How big and how many Subwoofers?

What are the Dimensions of the Room?


Specifically how and how many Sub(s) is a matter of taste. Today many people feel that two slightly smaller Subs are better than one larger Sub. For example, 2x10" as opposed to 1x12". But again, that is personal and a choice that is up to you.

What you choose for Sub(s) will depend on how much you have to spend. If you have ...say... $1,000, you have to decide between two $500 Subs or one $1,000 Sub.

Whether you choose One or Two Subs will depend on how much space you have to place the Subs.

Myself, in a smaller 10 x 11ft room, I would be more inclined to go with 2x8" or 2x10" Subs. Depending on whether you want Movie Deep Subs, or just Subs to take you Front Speakers a bit deeper. Even with a modest Sub, you'll have no problem taking the response down into the 30hz to 40hz range, and having a larger Bass Driver, even a modest 8", will move more air and give more sense of impact to the sound.

Thoughts?

Steve/bluewizard
 

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The Node has a built-in 80Hz crossover and subwoofer output, not sure how adding a miniDSP or external crossover would count as "simplest easiest way" of doing anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If you like your HSU, why not go for a ULS-15 MK2?

I might like something else better? I’ve only ever had the ported HSU for the projector, never really tried to listen to music on that system.

Reading here and good marketing is making me think of the magical Rythmik servo ;)

The ULS-15 in rosewood looks great and the price is right!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
That`s highly subjective, I have 3-12`s and 2-18`s....I would like 2 more 18`s or a 24 in a 12x12 room....:D

Nice! So you probably also have twin turbos E85 and nitrous on your car :) lol that’s a lot of sub :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #17
The Node has a built-in crossover and subwoofer output so you shouldn't need to buy any new gear besides the sub itself.

I have a Rythmik L12, I really like it, I was waffling on stretching to an F12 but I live in an apartment with neighbors and they probably already hate me enough. I'd say an advantage of competing models like the SB-3000 would be the ability to tune it with an app instead of constantly running back and forth from the couch to the back of the sub.

Awesome! That makes it simple - plug in node, done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Discussion Starter #18
You are really asking Two Questions, but there is a third that will be quickly added.

What? - That is, what do you want for a Sub or Subs? Any sense of Size or Quantity?

How? - That is, by what method will you do this?

How Much? - How much money do you have to dedicate to the task?

How Big? - By this I mean, what are the Dimensions of the Room?


You have a QUAD Power amp and a Bluesound Node, can we assume you are using the Bluesound Node as a Pre-Amp to the Quad?

Having a break (electrical) between the Pre-Amp and the Power Amp is to your advantage.

But let's first discussed the easiest way to accomplish this -

First we look at the Specs of your Speakers - Focal 906 Bookshelf -

Frequency response: 55-28,000 Hz (±3dB)


You have no Bass Management for the Front Speakers, so you have to set the Sub at the Natural Roll-Off of the Front Speakers. That would mean you would set the Sub Crossover in the roughly 50hz to 55hz range, assuming you want balanced response and smooth integration.

Then it is a matter of setting the Sub Volume until you feel it is balanced with the Focal Front Speakers.

But there is a way where you can choose the Crossover for the Front Speaker, which is generally preferred. This works best if you have a Pre-Amp/Power-Amp system.

You take the output of the Pre-Amp and split it into a "Y" using a "Y" or Splitter Cable. One leg goes to the Subwoofer(s) and the other goes to the Power Amp.

In the Power Amp leg you put an Fixed Crossover, and on the Sub leg, you control the frequency with the Sub Crossover.

Here is a simple Harrison 70hz High Pass (2x$26) that you can put in the Lines to the Power Amp -

https://www.parts-express.com/harrison-labs-fmod-inline-crossover-pair-70-hz-high-pass-rca--266-272

With these in the Pwr-Amp signal lines, you set the Subwoofer to 70hz and adjust the Sub Volume to taste.

However, there is a more active means of doing this.

MiniDSP 2x4 - (2In/4Out) - $95 -

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vX9f1pkIfgs

The MiniDSP has computer controlled DSP signal processing. You run the App/Software to program the MiniDSp, to program the Crossover Slopes and Frequency Location for BOTH the Front and Sub. There are many Videos on YouTube on the MiniDSP. And there are models that have more outputs.

There is an HD Versions and a version with More Inputs and Outputs.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-2x4-hd

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-4x10-hd

The can get pretty expensive though.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/minidsp-in-a-box/minidsp-4x10-hd

For most people in home systems, the MiniDSP at $95 is pretty affordable.

Now we know what, in general, you can do, so now we concentrate on the Specifics.

How much money do you have to spend?

How big and how many Subwoofers?

What are the Dimensions of the Room?


Specifically how and how many Sub(s) is a matter of taste. Today many people feel that two slightly smaller Subs are better than one larger Sub. For example, 2x10" as opposed to 1x12". But again, that is personal and a choice that is up to you.

What you choose for Sub(s) will depend on how much you have to spend. If you have ...say... $1,000, you have to decide between two $500 Subs or one $1,000 Sub.

Whether you choose One or Two Subs will depend on how much space you have to place the Subs.

Myself, in a smaller 10 x 11ft room, I would be more inclined to go with 2x8" or 2x10" Subs. Depending on whether you want Movie Deep Subs, or just Subs to take you Front Speakers a bit deeper. Even with a modest Sub, you'll have no problem taking the response down into the 30hz to 40hz range, and having a larger Bass Driver, even a modest 8", will move more air and give more sense of impact to the sound.

Thoughts?

Steve/bluewizard

Maybe one day (head exploding) :)

How big? I’m not listening at 11 - just want to fill in the sound. My grail speakers were too much money and went lower then these 906’s, but ... money. :)

I think around a grand is good budget for a sub?

I’ll stretch if subs in that range sounds bad. For example I couldn’t take home the chorus 706’s they were terrible for me compared to the aria 906’s and the 906 are only a bit more.

I also have about $1000 for bass traps, wall treatments, silk plants whatever.

Everything will live in here when the Venetian plaster is finished:




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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Maybe one day (head exploding) :)

How big? I’m not listening at 11 - just want to fill in the sound. My grail speakers were too much money and went lower then these 906’s, but ... money. :)

I think around a grand is good budget for a sub?

I’ll stretch if subs in that range sounds bad. For example I couldn’t take home the chorus 706’s they were terrible for me compared to the aria 906’s and the 906 are only a bit more.

I also have about $1000 for bass traps, wall treatments, silk plants whatever.

Everything will live in here when the Venetian plaster is finished:

...{Image}...
RE: the Focal 700 vs the Focal 900; I think you made the right choice, the 900 are much better speakers.

Paraphrasing what you said, I don't get the sense that you want to rattle the rafters. Rather you simply want to extend your existing speakers.

Though I have no direct experience, I'm told that REL are very Musical Subs, tight, fast, and clean.

https://rel.net/product-category/powered-subwoofers/

Echoing what I already said, I would suggest TWO 8" Subs or TWO 10" Subs. Though your room is pretty small.

The REL TI-Series should fall into your price range.

https://rel.net/shop/powered-subwoofers/serie-ti/t5i/

https://rel.net/shop/powered-subwoofers/serie-ti/t7i/

https://2y2ro62wfbas3svllg2i0s1t-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/REL_SerieTI_brochure_8.2015_digital.pdf

Remember, I'm suggesting you buy TWO and run them in Stereo.

The REL Ti5 will take you down to 32hz, and the REL Ti7 will take you down to 30hz. That puts you in the range of a good Floorstanding Speaker. The 10" Ti9 will take you down to 28hz. All Frequency specs are -6db.

For Movie Subwoofers that is not great depth, but it should be fine for filling out your existing speakers, and again, takes you down into Floorstanding bass territory.

Let me see if I can find prices on these -

https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/rel-t-5i-subwoofer

https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/rel-t7i-subwoofer

https://www.musicdirect.com/speakers/rel-t9i-subwoofer

Though purely your choice, ONE 10" Rel Sub (T9i) might be a good alternative.

These in my opinion are expensive, but equally all indications are that these are a high quality product and very well suited to a Music Only System. Though I'm sure we will get a range of opinions.

Definitely check out reviews on REL Acoustics Subwoofer. I think you will find that they are highly rated.

Given the quality of Front Speakers that you have, I have to assume you are not looking for Boom-Boxes or Thunder-Boxes, but rather are looking for something more controlled.

Can you confirm that you are using the Bluesound NODE as your Pre-Amp?


If you have a Pre-Amp/Pwr-Amp configuration, then life gets easy. I offered THREE methods for implementing a Subwoofer.

1.) Set the Sub to Crossover at the Natural Roll-Off
of the Focal Front Speaker, which is in the range of 50hz to 55hz.

2.) Place a small Passive Crossover in the Line to the Power Amp,
and use the Subwoofer Crossover to match that selected Harrison High Pass. I chose 70hz, which I think would work very well, but there are others to choose from, just make sure they are HIGH PASS Filters.

3.) Active DSP Crossover that will control both Front and Subs
. These are more expensive, but it is $95, not a bank breaker. This requires a bit more technical expertise, but not that complicated, and there are many videos on YouTube covering the MiniDSP.

Do any of these appeal to you more than the others?

Also, keep in mind that when you use one of the methods that applies Bass Control to the Front Speakers, that makes the life of those Front Speaker much easier, and pushes low bass off onto the Sub. The First Method (1.) is the Poor Man's way, though it is functional. I would say at least Method (2.) or Method (3.). You can start with Method (2.) and then later transition to Method (3.).

The highest function at the lowest cost with the least hassle of installing are the Harrison High Pass Filters which are a modest $26 per PAIR.

The Best Results will probably come from the MiniDSP, but you have to program it and it cost $95. If this seems interesting to you, then check out the many Videos on YouTube until you get a real sense of what is involved.

Keep in mind that the Harrison High Pass Filters are only $26/pr. That's roughly Dinner for Two + Desert at McDonald's. You can start with these, and then research the MiniDSP, and if you decide to buy it later, you are only out $26. And it might be a nice back up should the MiniDSP crap out, though that is unlikely.

What you want to do certainly can be done, and in a variety of ways. Now you just need to work out budget, and what Sub(s) best suit your needs.

For a hard-core Movie system, this is perhaps not the right direction, but to enhance your existing speakers in a Stereo System and give them more depth and controlled impact, I think my advice is right. And given the small size of the Room, likely TWO 8" is the way to go, though I would be interested in hearing the opinion of others on the matter.

There are many Subs to choose from, but, especially give your budget, you want Quality Controlled Musical Subs, not Movie Thunder Boxes. Musical Subs are a bit more difficult than Thunder Boxes ... in my opinion.

Steve/bluewizard
 

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OK, I don't know how much my experience worth. I was using an old Valodyne sub since like 1996 at the beginning of popularity of subs. I upgraded my system at least once already. I am lucky that the sweet spot is actually next to the sofa like in the picture. So I have been using the sub as end table all along. About 3 or 4 years ago, I was talking here, I was introduced to the Rythmik and I saw the aluminum cone F12SE. I was thinking it's been 20 years, it's time to buy a new one for the hell of it. Also, it's so pretty as the end table. So I bought it blindly not really expecting anything. WOW, what a difference. The amazing thing is not about the bass, the wall shaking is a given. What surprised me is it make the mid frequencies have more impact. Like closing doors, shattering glass when watching tv. It enhances the sound other than just deep bass. Don't ask me why, it just is. It surprised me for over a month even I wasn't thinking or looking for it.


Now, remember, my Velodyne is 20 years old, it must be very primitive as it's about the first generation of subs. Now, you have closed loop feedback, DSP and all the advance technologies. The SVS or other brands might be just as good and I have no way to tell. But that's just my experience. I am so glad I bought the Rythmik and I would do it all over again.
 
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