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Sub selection - too much information !!

756 Views 14 Replies 6 Participants Last post by Audiophile75, Sep 9, 2019

jorisdriesen

Discussion Starter · Sep 8, 2019

Hey guys,

I've been reading hundreds of posts in here in the last week, as I just discovered the DIY world and it looks so absolutely awesome. I decided to cancel my plans for SVS subs and to go the DIY route myself. I've contacted some people already in pm's to get some detailed questions answered, but after continuing the read threads here, I'm more confused than before I started.

Some information on my theater room: it still needs to be fully built, as our new house will only be ready towards December. I want to have my speakers and subs fully built already beforehand, so I can focus on the actual theater when we can move into the house.

This will be the layout and the screen wall, the equipment will be for 100% movies in 5.2.4 with in-ceiling atmos speakers:

Now I'm a bit lost between following 2 choices:

1. Cabinet selection: probably a Devastator, but which version ? I also just discovered the Decimator "for more punch in movies". Is that the one I need ?
2. Driver selection: The LaVoce 214.50 is quite cheap here, but apparently not in stock and no info about delivery time. B&C are a bit more expensive, no issue, but do they outperform the LaVoce's when comparing 2 vs 2 ? Do I want the 4 ohm versions of the B&C ?

Thirdly, is MDF a good choice for these cabinets, or does it need to be hardwood ?

I'm a bit overloaded at the moment

Will post build threads ofcourse when I've made a selection and get the material cut.

Thanks for the feedback !

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scottvalentin

· #2 · Sep 8, 2019

Good questions and your room looks great!

The B&C's will not outperform the Lavoce's by very much, if at all. They model VERY close with the B&C maybe 1-2db in higher output. I think I modelled it at some point but can't find it right now.

For cabinet material, a high quality plywood is usually the preferred option as it is lighter than MDF and doesn't create dust like MDF does. MDF is ok, it's just heavy and if you don't mind the dust. Use a respirator/dust mask if you're going to work with MDF!

jorisdriesen

Discussion Starter · #3 · Sep 8, 2019

scottvalentin said:
Good questions and your room looks great!

The B&C's will not outperform the Lavoce's by very much, if at all. They model VERY close with the B&C maybe 1-2db in higher output. I think I modelled it at some point but can't find it right now.

For cabinet material, a high quality plywood is usually the preferred option as it is lighter than MDF and doesn't create dust like MDF does. MDF is ok, it's just heavy and if you don't mind the dust. Use a respirator/dust mask if you're going to work with MDF!

So according to your experience, there's no real reason to chose either the LaVoce or the B&C ? I would ofc prefer the cheapest alternative in case the performance difference is negligible, but I don't like the fact that they don't have any idea about the delivery time for the LaVoce. At some point the cabinets will be ready and then I need drivers

Plywood is more than double the cost of MDF here. I was planning to have all panels cut in the store, they usually do that for free when it's quiet. At home there would only be glueing and nailing, as I will probably not be sanding to perfection as they will go behind an AT wall. The extra weight of MDF shouldn't be a problem when I carry all panels to the attic before assembly.

Falonious

· #4 · Sep 8, 2019

Here you go.....No cutting at all!

https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/horn-subwoofers

https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/horn-subwoofers/products/devastator-21-ported-horn-two-pack

jorisdriesen

Discussion Starter · #5 · Sep 8, 2019

Falonious said:
Here you go.....No cutting at all!

https://shop.gsgad.com/collections/horn-subwoofers

Yeah, that will cost me $700 at least (on top of actual sales price) to get it in Belgium

I'm ordering speaker kits from DIYSG at the moment (without flat packs) and on top of the $1300 sales price I'm looking at $1000 for shipping, customs duties, Belgian VAT and import duties. The extreme weight of the Devastator flat pack will make shipping to Europe (financially) impossible.

Besides, 3 sheets of MDF will cost me less than $60, and having them cut to size is free, so shouldn't be an issue.

Reactions: 1

Falonious

· #6 · Sep 8, 2019

Sorry my friend, I had no idea you are not located here in the states. The plans/cut lists for the Devs are here somewhere also.
BTW...been to a little town called Bastogne and L'eglise back a few years now.

Houffalize, Stavelot, and Malmedy also.

Shadowed

· #7 · Sep 8, 2019 (Edited)

jorisdriesen said:
1. Cabinet selection: probably a Devastator, but which version ? I also just discovered the Decimator "for more punch in movies". Is that the one I need ?
2. Driver selection: The LaVoce 214.50 is quite cheap here, but apparently not in stock and no info about delivery time. B&C are a bit more expensive, no issue, but do they outperform the LaVoce's when comparing 2 vs 2 ? Do I want the 4 ohm versions of the B&C ?

Thirdly, is MDF a good choice for these cabinets, or does it need to be hardwood ?

I'm a bit overloaded at the moment Will post build threads ofcourse when I've made a selection and get the material cut.

Thanks for the feedback !

Before ordering a driver, check to see what ohm rating the amp you will be using is capable of. The wattage output of the amp will be different depending on the driver ohms.

3/4" mdf is a good, dense material for a sub box.

scottvalentin

· #8 · Sep 8, 2019

jorisdriesen said:
So according to your experience, there's no real reason to chose either the LaVoce or the B&C ? I would ofc prefer the cheapest alternative in case the performance difference is negligible, but I don't like the fact that they don't have any idea about the delivery time for the LaVoce. At some point the cabinets will be ready and then I need drivers

Plywood is more than double the cost of MDF here. I was planning to have all panels cut in the store, they usually do that for free when it's quiet. At home there would only be glueing and nailing, as I will probably not be sanding to perfection as they will go behind an AT wall. The extra weight of MDF shouldn't be a problem when I carry all panels to the attic before assembly.

Take my "experience" with a grain of salt, I haven't heard either driver. I did however order two of the Lavoce SAF184.03's (the 18" driver) but these haven't gone into boxes yet, so haven't heard them. I've only modelled them a bit for my purposes which was around 9 cu. ft. and tuned to around 20.

If the plywood is that expensive and someone else is doing the cutting, MDF will be just fine.

jorisdriesen

Discussion Starter · #9 · Sep 8, 2019

Shadowed said:
Before ordering a driver, check to see what ohm rating the amp you will be using is capable of. The wattage output of the amp will be different depending on the driver ohms
3/4" mdf is a good, dense material for a sub box.

Good point. From what I've read, the NX6000D would be a good choice to power 2x 21" 8-Ohm drivers. Goes for €379 here in Belgium, which is about $420.

monty6400

· #10 · Sep 8, 2019

If you've got the room, I'd suggest the Beast Mode Devastators with the B&C 21DS115-4, I recently built two ported cabs using them and they rock, I can't even imagine the devastators!

jorisdriesen

Discussion Starter · #11 · Sep 8, 2019

monty6400 said:
If you've got the room, I'd suggest the Beast Mode Devastators with the B&C 21DS115-4, I recently built two ported cabs using them and they rock, I can't even imagine the devastators!

I asked @Red Five about the BMD and he told me: "With the HTM-12s and Volt-8s I would go with the Devastator original. The BMD does not quite reach up to 100Hz for a crossover, the system might not have as much midbass punch without a bit higher crossover. BMD is limited to a 80Hz crossover or so. If you have 15" mains the BMD is more agressive from 20Hz to 50Hz, integration would be better. Though if you end up with 4 subs you can do 2 of each."

monty6400

· #12 · Sep 8, 2019

jorisdriesen said:
I asked @Red Five about the BMD and he told me: "With the HTM-12s and Volt-8s I would go with the Devastator original. The BMD does not quite reach up to 100Hz for a crossover, the system might not have as much midbass punch without a bit higher crossover. BMD is limited to a 80Hz crossover or so. If you have 15" mains the BMD is more agressive from 20Hz to 50Hz, integration would be better. Though if you end up with 4 subs you can do 2 of each."

Ah yes I hadn't thought about its upper limits, I cross over at 100hz to the HTMs too. I'd build the original devastators with the 4ohm B&C's, add an Inuke 6000 and you're all set!

jorisdriesen

Discussion Starter · #13 · Sep 8, 2019

Yeah that sounds good !!

Gonna leave this thread open, cause I will learn a lot from people's input and questions.

Reactions: 1

jorisdriesen

Discussion Starter · #14 · Sep 9, 2019

OK, so just got an official confirmation that they have no idea about the delivery time for the LaVoce's.

Will just follow up in the coming weeks, and decide once I really need the driver for installation when the cabinet is finished.

The windows and doors will go in the house at the end of October, so probably I can use the attic from then onwards to build all the cabinets and finish the speakers before we move in.

Audiophile75

· #15 · Sep 9, 2019

jorisdriesen said:
I asked @Red Five about the BMD and he told me: "With the HTM-12s and Volt-8s I would go with the Devastator original. The BMD does not quite reach up to 100Hz for a crossover, the system might not have as much midbass punch without a bit higher crossover. BMD is limited to a 80Hz crossover or so. If you have 15" mains the BMD is more agressive from 20Hz to 50Hz, integration would be better. Though if you end up with 4 subs you can do 2 of each."

This is good info, I have the htm12’s and find them lacking “only” at really high volumes so I actually built MBM’s to fill this gap and things were much more relaxed at high 2 channel music volumes. Moral of the story - simple and loud go the original devs for better integration as @redfive advised, going to upgrade more for abusive amounts of spl then consider an mbm (50-150hz) and xo the htm’s higher (150hz +/- ) for a three way and a BMD ULF setup. Simple and loud or more complex lower and smoother.

Reactions: 1

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