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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello:


I am an extreme novice in the audio sphere and I would appreciate a little guidance.


I am slowly being dragged into the upgrade of my home audio and video system.


As with many purchases, a single upgrade leads to additional purchases.


To make a long story short, I upgraded my AV receiver to a Denon 4306 recently and I discovered when it arrived that my previous sub-woofer (came with my HTIB that is on it's way out) has a different connection then the Denon accepts.


My current sub has 2 screw-on connections for the exposed ends of speaker cable similar to the connections on many receivers. It connected to the rear of the receiver the same as the other speakers (with the exposed wire connects).


However, the Denon manual shows the sub as connecting with a single plug in wire.


Is that common among sub's? Will most good subs have that single connection?


Can you share with me the proper names for those various connections?


I will be looking for a new and better speaker set this weekend (after I read the audio forum for some guidance). I want to make sure I get the right connection type.


Thanks in advance,

Splotto
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
Hello:


I had some time to do more research (I know, generally that is the first suggestion in most forums). It looks like the LFE connection is the 'plug in' connection I was referring to.


I was looking at the manual for the Klipsch Sub 12 and noticed the connections it provides as well as the connection recommendations.


See below:

http://www.klipsch.com/media/product...12%20small.pdf


Is it common to pass that main speaker feeds through your sub?


Thanks,

Splotto
 

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Yes... The RCA input on the subwoofer labeled 'left / LFE' is what most users use. This is connected to the LFE or subwoofer channel on your receiver. It is not that common for people to pass main speaker feeds through the subwoofer, especially for HT.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by jhan1000 /forum/post/0


Yes... The RCA input on the subwoofer labeled 'left / LFE' is what most users use. This is connected to the LFE or subwoofer channel on your receiver. It is not that common for people to pass main speaker feeds through the subwoofer, especially for HT.

Thanks.


Splotto
 

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If you want to use the Bass Management capabilities of your receiver, (and you *want* to do this!), you need to connect your sub at the LFE/Subwoofer level. If you connect it at speaker level, the only option you can use in your BM is to set the speakers to "Large" and the subwoofer to "None." This will direct all the bass (including the LFE channel) to the L/R speakers, which is where the sub is connected.


If you connect it it at LFE/subwoofer level, you'll have a lot more choices of speaker size and crossover setting. It will be much easier to optimize the sub with the additional options of BM. If you post what speakers and sub you have, we can help you with picking the BM choices. Alternatively, you can use the automatic room correction software in your receiver to set these choices.


Good luck.


Craig
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/0


If you want to use the Bass Management capabilities of your receiver, (and you *want* to do this!), you need to connect your sub at the LFE/Subwoofer level. If you connect it at speaker level, the only option you can use in your BM is to set the speakers to "Large" and the subwoofer to "None." This will direct all the bass (including the LFE channel) to the L/R speakers, which is where the sub is connected.


If you connect it it at LFE/subwoofer level, you'll have a lot more choices of speaker size and crossover setting. It will be much easier to optimize the sub with the additional options of BM. If you post what speakers and sub you have, we can help you with picking the BM choices. Alternatively, you can use the automatic room correction software in your receiver to set these choices.


Good luck.


Craig

Craig:


Thanks.


I am looking to get new speakers and a sub now. That was what is driving my questions.


I had a Yamaha HTIB but recently stepped up to a Denon receiver.


Due to my room layout, I am limited to using bookshelf speakers in the front.


I have always been a fan of Klipsch speakers from my PC days I was looking at the Synergy Sub 12 subwoofer. It seems to get good recommendations from the group here.


If I go with the Sub12 I would also add Klipsch front and center channel speakers.


I have 2 bose speakers mounted high on the walls for the surround speakers.


Thanks,

Splotto
 

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I too am a fan of Klipsch speakers, although I've never been a huge fan of their subs. I have Klipsch Ref. bookshelf's, RB-75's with an Earthquake sub. The Sub12 is probably a good little sub, although I don't have any expereince with it. However, based on what you spent on your receiver, you probably want to raise your sub budget somewhat. I would suggest you check out some of the offerings from SVS, Hsu, Axiom, ACI, Velodyne, Earthquake, etc., or even some of the Klipsch Reference Line subs.


For bookshelf's in the Klipsch lineup, the RB-81 is the top of the line, followed by the RB-61 and 51. I think the "sweet-spot" in the lineup is the RB-61 in terms of performance/$$$. If you want a complete Klipsch package, they bundle a system around the RB-61:
http://www.klipsch.com/products/deta...er-system.aspx


If you get Klipsch bookshelf speakers and a sub, you'll want to connect the sub at the LFE/subwoofer level as in the link you supplied above. Then turn the sub's Lowpass to as high as it will go, (or disable it), turn the gain to about 10:00 and the phase to "0". Run the MultEQ XT automatic room correction program on your Denon receiver. This is the most elaborate and precise room correction software in existance. Here is an excellent article about the program:
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...sseyMultEQ.php


In spite of the excellent software, it doesn't always optimize the BM settings. Sometimes it will set speakers to "Large" that don't actually have enough bass response to warrant that setting. Check the BM settings after you run the software and adjust them if needed. You want your BM settings to be:

Speaker Size: Small

Crossover: Probably 80 Hz, but it depends on the speaker.

Speaker Distance: Whatever the software finds, even if it's doen't match the actual distances.

Speaker level: Whatever the software finds.

Phase: Whatever the software finds.


There will also be three Room EQ settings. You should check all three and see which you prefer, (or none of the three if you like that better). You should end up with an excellent sounding system.


Best of luck with it.


Craig
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/0


I too am a fan of Klipsch speakers, although I've never been a huge fan of their subs. I have Klipsch Ref. bookshelf's, RB-75's with an Earthquake sub. The Sub12 is probably a good little sub, although I don't have any expereince with it. However, based on what you spent on your receiver, you probably want to raise your sub budget somewhat. I would suggest you check out some of the offerings from SVS, Hsu, Axiom, ACI, Velodyne, Earthquake, etc., or even some of the Klipsch Reference Line subs.


For bookshelf's in the Klipsch lineup, the RB-81 is the top of the line, followed by the RB-61 and 51. I think the "sweet-spot" in the lineup is the RB-61 in terms of performance/$$$. If you want a complete Klipsch package, they bundle a system around the RB-61:
http://www.klipsch.com/products/deta...er-system.aspx


If you get Klipsch bookshelf speakers and a sub, you'll want to connect the sub at the LFE/subwoofer level as in the link you supplied above. Then turn the sub's Lowpass to as high as it will go, (or disable it), turn the gain to about 10:00 and the phase to "0". Run the MultEQ XT automatic room correction program on your Denon receiver. This is the most elaborate and precise room correction software in existance. Here is an excellent article about the program:
http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/...sseyMultEQ.php


In spite of the excellent software, it doesn't always optimize the BM settings. Sometimes it will set speakers to "Large" that don't actually have enough bass response to warrant that setting. Check the BM settings after you run the software and adjust them if needed. You want your BM settings to be:

Speaker Size: Small

Crossover: Probably 80 Hz, but it depends on the speaker.

Speaker Distance: Whatever the software finds, even if it's doen't match the actual distances.

Speaker level: Whatever the software finds.

Phase: Whatever the software finds.


There will also be three Room EQ settings. You should check all three and see which you prefer, (or none of the three if you like that better). You should end up with an excellent sounding system.


Best of luck with it.


Craig


Craig:


Thanks for all the advice.


Splotto
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/0


I too am a fan of Klipsch speakers, although I've never been a huge fan of their subs. I have Klipsch Ref. bookshelf's, RB-75's with an Earthquake sub. The Sub12 is probably a good little sub, although I don't have any expereince with it. However, based on what you spent on your receiver, you probably want to raise your sub budget somewhat. I would suggest you check out some of the offerings from SVS, Hsu, Axiom, ACI, Velodyne, Earthquake, etc., or even some of the Klipsch Reference Line subs.


For bookshelf's in the Klipsch lineup, the RB-81 is the top of the line, followed by the RB-61 and 51. I think the "sweet-spot" in the lineup is the RB-61 in terms of performance/$$$. If you want a complete Klipsch package, they bundle a system around the RB-61:
http://www.klipsch.com/products/deta...er-system.aspx



Best of luck with it.


Craig

Hello:


After more reading today, I think I have found a good $$/performance sub with the HSU VTF MK3. At ~$500 shipped it seems to be a great product and a good price.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/vtf-2-mk3.html



I also note that HSU has a few package deals, most notably the Enthusiast 2 with includes the VTF MK3 plus 4 speakers and center channel speaker for $1099.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/products/enthusiast2.html


Considering the Klipsch bundle is $1600 this might be a better deal.


Thoughts?


Thanks,

Splotto
 

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I don't have any personal experience with the HSU HB-1. However, if you go to the HSU webpage for the HB-1, there is a "Customer Testamonial" by Sanjay Durani. Sanjay is a well known and highly respected contributor to this forum and if he has good things to say about a speaker system, you can bet it's a decent system. For the price, I would bet it will be highly competitve with the Klipsch system.


However, there are a few differences. The Klipsch speaker is a little more sensitive, (92 vs. 95 dB). The Klipsch speaker has a little more LF extension, (43 vs. 60 Hz), which may make it a little easier to blend with the sub. The Klipsch speaker is 8 Ohms vs. the HSU's 6 Ohms, making it compatible with a few more receivers. Finally, the Klipsch speaker has a front firing port vs. the HSU's rear-firing port, making the Klipsch easier to place near boundaries or inside cabinets, (not that these placements are good for either speaker).


Personally, I would say the "best" of these systems would be the HSU sub with 3 of the RB-61's for L/C/R and 2 RS-42's, (at a reasonable discount from MSRP for the Klipsch speakers). The price should fall somewhere between the HSU Enthusiast 2 and the Klipsch RB-61 bundle. Use the settings I described above and I'm sure you'll have an awesome sounding system.


Hopefully Sanjay will chime in here with his impressions as well.


Craig
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/0


I don't have any personal experience with the HSU HB-1. However, if you go to the HSU webpage for the HB-1, there is a "Customer Testamonial" by Sanjay Durani. Sanjay is a well known and highly respected contributor to this forum and if he has good things to say about a speaker system, you can bet it's a decent system. For the price, I would bet it will be highly competitve with the Klipsch system.


However, there are a few differences. The Klipsch speaker is a little more sensitive, (92 vs. 95 dB). The Klipsch speaker has a little more LF extension, (43 vs. 60 Hz), which may make it a little easier to blend with the sub. The Klipsch speaker is 8 Ohms vs. the HSU's 6 Ohms, making it compatible with a few more receivers. Finally, the Klipsch speaker has a front firing port vs. the HSU's rear-firing port, making the Klipsch easier to place near boundaries or inside cabinets, (not that these placements are good for either speaker).


Personally, I would say the "best" of these systems would be the HSU sub with 3 of the RB-61's for L/C/R and 2 RS-42's, (at a reasonable discount from MSRP for the Klipsch speakers). The price should fall somewhere between the HSU Enthusiast 2 and the Klipsch RB-61 bundle. Use the settings I described above and I'm sure you'll have an awesome sounding system.


Hopefully Sanjay will chime in here with his impressions as well.


Craig

Craig:


Again, thanks for all the great input. I appriciate the time you and others take to help the novices like myself.


Being a fan of Klipsch, I am not shcked that their speakers might be a better choice.


What are your thoughts on the HSU Sub - VTF-2 MK3?


Splotto
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Hello:


I forgot to post the dimensions of my room (in case that matters).


The main room is 15 ft wide by 18 long. The TV and sound are on the 15 foot wall.


The rear wall oppisite the tv and sound is open to the kitchen. The viewers right 18 foot wall is all glass sliders that open completely to the outside (coverable with sliding blinds).


Thanks,

Splotto
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splotto /forum/post/0


Craig:


Again, thanks for all the great input. I appriciate the time you and others take to help the novices like myself.


Being a fan of Klipsch, I am not shcked that their speakers might be a better choice.


What are your thoughts on the HSU Sub - VTF-2 MK3?


Splotto

I don't have any personal experience with that particular HSU sub. However, I have heard several other HSU sub's and they've all been excellent performers. HSU has an excellent reputation and no one has ever questioned the validity of their spec's. Therefore, if the spec's say it can do 18 Hz, it will, in all likelyhood, do 18 Hz with authority. The key question is; How big is your room?


Craig
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by craig john /forum/post/0


Hopefully Sanjay will chime in here with his impressions as well.

Sorry for the delayed response. There are two things I found really impressive about the Hsu bookshelf speakers: clarity and imaging. The sound is detailed and clear without being harsh, which can often be a difficult balance to achieve. The soundstage and imaging was stunning. Not only did the HB-1 throw a large soundstage but it had very precise localization between the speakers. The most impressive part was that I could still hear decent central imaging even when I was sitting outside the sweet spot. I think anyone considering Klipsch speakers should at least give the Hsu bookshelves a listen (especially since they have a 30-day return policy).


Sanjay
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by sdurani /forum/post/0


Sorry for the delayed response. There are two things I found really impressive about the Hsu bookshelf speakers: clarity and imaging. The sound is detailed and clear without being harsh, which can often be a difficult balance to achieve. The soundstage and imaging was stunning. Not only did the HB-1 throw a large soundstage but it had very precise localization between the speakers. The most impressive part was that I could still hear decent central imaging even when I was sitting outside the sweet spot. I think anyone considering Klipsch speakers should at least give the Hsu bookshelves a listen (especially since they have a 30-day return policy).


Sanjay

Hello:


Thanks for the advice. I appriciate your help.


Splotto
 

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I skimmed through the thread, so this may have been addressed already, but you're HTiB subwoofer is probably "passive," meaning that the receiver that came with the HTiB was providing its power.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Splotto /forum/post/0


Craig:


What are your thoughts on the HSU Sub - VTF-2 MK3?


Splotto


I'm not Craig, but I am a proud owner of the VTF-3 MK2. This is the old version of the VTF-2 MK3, which is virtually the same, with a 250w amp rather than a 350w amp. The VTF-3 MK2 used to sell for $700. So virtually the same subwoofer for $470 is an absolute steal.


My VTF-3 MK2 is amazing in my 2800'x3 room (about 14x22x8.75 with a cut-out in the rear of the room). In Max Extension mode it digs down to the mid-teens, with plenty of power, articulation, and detail.
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri /forum/post/0


I skimmed through the thread, so this may have been addressed already, but you're HTiB subwoofer is probably "passive," meaning that the receiver that came with the HTiB was providing its power.

It must have been because there is no power cable with that sub.


Splotto
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Hello:


Thanks for everyone's help with my questions.


I am very impressed with the depth of everyones knowledge of speakers/subs here. Very helpful.


I have placed a question in the speaker forum asking for help in setting up the speakers in my room.


If anyone here has anything to contribute, I would appricaite it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=793608


Thanks,

Splotto
 
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