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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Help me spend (part of) my year-end bonus on a sub!


Budget - 500 USD (including shipping). I can go a bit higher if there's a significant quality difference.

Room - 3500 cu. ft. (20 X 16 X 11)

Use - 50% HT, 50% music, I do NOT listen at high volumes, DO enjoy organ music

Appearance and size are of NO consideration.


My current system consists of Paradigm Monitor 9 mains and a Denon 1908 receiver. (I'm going to be adding the rest of the speakers to make it a 5.1 system with more of my bonus.) In a previous system I had a JBL E250, and I generally liked it but felt the bass was a bit mushy.


I'm considering the following based mainly on Craigsub's ratings:

Epik Valor ($549 ID): 91 points (44-47)

SVS PB12-NSD ($599 ID): 86 points (43-43)

Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo ($549 ID): 86 points (40-46)

Hsu VTF-1 $449

Hsu STF-2 $349

Elemental Designs A2-300 ($350): 83 points (44-39)

Elemental Designs A3-250 ($375)

SVS PB10-NSD ($429 ID): 83 points (43-40)


Are there any others I should add? What are the major differences in quality as well as the nature of the sound?


Thanks for your help

Steve
 

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a3-300 was not rated, a2-300 was. If a3-300 with 13ov.2 was tested I'd expect it to get a couple extra points for HT and a good deal more for music over a2-300, and I'd say it's a real value selling for the price of pb10.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Rick, actually, I already did use the search function. I've been around this and other fora long enough to have learned about the search function. All I found, with the exception of Craigsub's post, was a lot of opinion without much fact.


Now that we have that out of the way, would you mind responding to the substance of my post. I provided a specific situation and would like some input from those here who are more experienced.


Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 /forum/post/15557039


Many other similar threads, review them first.




More out there, use search. Lots of opinions expressed in that price range.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Why would it be more improved for music than HT? In general I don't understand why the music and HT ratings are different.


Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by CADOBHuK /forum/post/15559161


a3-300 was not rated, a2-300 was. If a3-300 with 13ov.2 was tested I'd expect it to get a couple extra points for HT and a good deal more for music over a2-300, and I'd say it's a real value selling for the price of pb10.
 

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The HT rating reflects output and extension, while music one reflects linearity, articulation and lack of distortion. Since 13ov.2 is a better driver with a stronger magnet and better control over the cone movement, it should improve sound quality. a2-300 is an empty box with 13kv.2, while a3-300 has both bracing ( improves the enclosure integrity decreasing vibration ) and damping ( absorbs internal waves to decrease the cabinet induced coloration ). With all of the above odds are that a3-300 should sound noticably cleaner.

You should edit your post and correctly put a2-300 where you have a3-300.
 

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The Paradigm DSP line are quite musical. I have the DSP-3100 but your budget might allow you to move to the DSP-3200 (these are not ID so you have to see what discount from MSRP various dealers will give; the two in my area offered 15% and 20%).
 

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It wasn't reviewed, but the SVS PC12-NSD has recently been redesigned, and I think the PB12-NSD was as well. Both would probably do better now than the PB12 did when it was tested. The PC12-NSD is a model you should probably add for consideration, and it's currently about $50 less than the PB12.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by qasimkhan /forum/post/15556699


Help me spend (part of) my year-end bonus on a sub!


Budget - 500 USD (including shipping). I can go a bit higher if there's a significant quality difference.

Room - 3500 cu. ft. (20 X 16 X 11)

Use - 50% HT, 50% music, I do NOT listen at high volumes, DO enjoy organ music

Appearance and size are of NO consideration.


My current system consists of Paradigm Monitor 9 mains and a Denon 1908 receiver. (I'm going to be adding the rest of the speakers to make it a 5.1 system with more of my bonus.) In a previous system I had a JBL E250, and I generally liked it but felt the bass was a bit mushy.


I'm considering the following based mainly on Craigsub's ratings:

Epik Valor ($549 ID): 91 points (44-47)

SVS PB12-NSD ($599 ID): 86 points (43-43)

Hsu VTF-2 Mark III w/o Turbo ($549 ID): 86 points (40-46)

Hsu VTF-1 $449

Hsu STF-2 $349

Elemental Designs A3-300 ($475): 83 points (44-39)

Elemental Designs A3-250 ($375)

SVS PB10-NSD ($429 ID): 83 points (43-40)


Are there any others I should add? What are the major differences in quality as well as the nature of the sound?


Thanks for your help

Steve

You can also go for Polk Audio DSW PRO 500 and PRo400. Bot are excellent in sound. For all available subs, just visit electronics-expo.com and you can buy from there with very attractive price.
 

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^ You know all the best stuff...But you're too generous, top secret information like that should not be dispensed here for free. You even recommended a two year old Sony VPL-VW60 from the electronics-expo.com at the expo-price of $4,999.00, on the projector forum.
 

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I have thw A2 300, very good subwoofer and for the price u cant beat it



And u can call eD urself and ask them how different the a2 300 is than the a3 300 and they will tell u there will be NO sound quality difference at all, just more output
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by OkinawaMarkII /forum/post/15572672


Cant go wrong with Yamaha at that price range...

....Ummm....Yes you can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pushpindersohi /forum/post/15573190


You can also go for Polk Audio DSW PRO 500 and PRo400. Bot are excellent in sound. For all available subs, just visit electronics-expo.com and you can buy from there with very attractive price.

To the OP, the brands you listed in your opening post will stomp all over most any sub you buy in a B&M store $ for $. While Yamaha and Polk both have their strengths, subwoofers aren't what they do best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
That was my sense from reading the forum, but I'm glad to have it confirmed explicitly.


Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman325 /forum/post/15575198


....Ummm....Yes you can.




To the OP, the brands you listed in your opening post will stomp all over most any sub you buy in a B&M store $ for $. While Yamaha and Polk both have their strengths, subwoofers aren't what they do best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Will all the subs I've listed fill a 3500 cu. ft. room? I don't listen at reference level.


Based on my 50/50 music (and liking pipe organ) and HT listening, are there any of them that I should eliminate? Are there any of them that do one or the other particularly poorly?


Is the Hsu VTF-2 worth an extra 200 USD compared to the Hsu STF-2 (i.e. 549 USD vs. 349 USD)? If yes, why is the ability to vary the configuration so important?


Do any of the subs I've listed stand out as particularly good?
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Thanks - this was really helpful. You went far beyond the "I got XXX sub, and it's the greatest." Or "you can buy YYY sub at an awesome price on this cool web site that I just happen to know about."


Steve

Quote:
Originally Posted by CADOBHuK /forum/post/15571043


The HT rating reflects output and extension, while music one reflects linearity, articulation and lack of distortion. Since 13ov.2 is a better driver with a stronger magnet and better control over the cone movement, it should improve sound quality. a2-300 is an empty box with 13kv.2, while a3-300 has both bracing ( improves the enclosure integrity decreasing vibration ) and damping ( absorbs internal waves to decrease the cabinet induced coloration ). With all of the above odds are that a3-300 should sound noticably cleaner.

You should edit your post and correctly put a2-300 where you have a3-300.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman325 /forum/post/15575198


To the OP, the brands you listed in your opening post will stomp all over most any sub you buy in a B&M store $ for $. While Yamaha and Polk both have their strengths, subwoofers aren't what they do best.

I would agree with the exception of the Paradigm DSP series. Excellent performance, very musical and price competitive with ID subs (once you get the retailer to give 15-20% off MSRP).
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rick240 /forum/post/15575717


I would agree with the exception of the Paradigm DSP series. Excellent performance, very musical and price competitive with ID subs (once you get the retailer to give 15-20% off MSRP).

I have actually heard good things about the DSP series, the 3400 in particular. I would still be curious to see how it stacks up on a $ for $ basis. Not saying it can't hang with the others, but how does it compare price-wise to equal competition? I've never looked into it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by qasimkhan /forum/post/15575703


Will all the subs I've listed fill a 3500 cu. ft. room? I don't listen at reference level.


Based on my 50/50 music (and liking pipe organ) and HT listening, are there any of them that I should eliminate? Are there any of them that do one or the other particularly poorly?


Is the Hsu VTF-2 worth an extra 200 USD compared to the Hsu STF-2 (i.e. 549 USD vs. 349 USD)? If yes, why is the ability to vary the configuration so important?


Do any of the subs I've listed stand out as particularly good?

To "fill" a room that size will take a pretty substantial sub, or maybe even 2, especially at higher volumes. That may not be an issue for you though, since you say you don't listen really loud.


As far as the music vs. HT issue, if a sub is really good in one area, I don't think it would completely suck in the other. For music listening, you want a good "tight", articulate sub. For the pipe organ in particular you need one that can dig down pretty low. It's my understanding that this is one of the hardest tests for a subwoofer.


None of the subs you listed are bad at all, but some may be a little small for your room. I would focus mostly on the "bigger" models you listed and also add the SVS PC12-NSD for consideration.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fireman325 /forum/post/15575856


I have actually heard good things about the DSP series, the 3400 in particular. I would still be curious to see how it stacks up on a $ for $ basis. Not saying it can't hang with the others, but how does it compare price-wise to equal competition? I've never looked into it.

I am in Canada, so we experience different prices



I recently bought a DSP-3100, list $569 Cdn, for $455.


My alternate was a SVS PB10-NSD, list $579 Cdn + $60 delivery = $640. I might have been able to talk the Cdn SVS distributor down a bit but certainly not less than $550.


For immediate delivery and $100 savings, for me $ for $ Paradigm was the better deal (and it really sounds great, good extension for HT and very musical).
 
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