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I've had my HS20 for a couple days now and would like to illicit my thoughts on it compared to the HS10 that I had (and a few DLP's). My viewing is primarily HD, DVD and X-Box. Sources are HD200 via DVI, JVC 30K DVHS via component, RP82 via component. Screen is 118" diag. 1.0 gain.


The shortcomings of the HS10 (fan noise, black level, cr and brightness in my case) began to distract from my viewing experience. I tried to overcome these deficiencies buy getting the SMART III package and CC filters, which improved the pq measurably from the default setting, but did not address the noise issue and made the brightness an even bigger problem.


As mentioned before in other threads from HS10 users, the first difference I noticed was in color saturation. The HS20's colors are more vibrant than the 10 I had. While my HS10 had a pretty accurate grey scale after calibration, compared to the HS20 the colors seemed a bit dull or muted. Keep in mind since I was using CC filters with the hs10 (cc30r & cc40r) my lumens are about cut in half. I used a seen in Spiderman that looked terrible on the hs10 (bridge scene toward the end) and compared it to the HS20. On the 10 this scene always looked washed out and foggy, lacking much detail. On the HS20 this same scene looked like someone had wiped mist off the screen and brought out more depth in the pic. I watched BLADE II the other night and noticed how all the particle effects that happen during the fight scenes looked more dynamic, much like I remember seeing them in the theater. On the 10 they were muted and sort of blended in with the background. I attribute this to the higher brightness and better CR. HD has always been the Sony's strong point and I was more than happy with my HD pq from the HS10, but I must say HD on the HS20 was better than just about anything I have yet to compare it to (I have seen Yamaha DPX-1, DPX-1000, lpx500, Sharp 9k, 10k, 12k and a Runco) My HS10 would sometimes exhibit "pixel noise" for lack of a proper term from the DVI input. At first I thought it was just my DVI cable. Now I know it was the HS10. The 20's pic was free from artifacts and was razor sharp. The image really popped off the screen. It had that "looking out a window" effect more than my HS10 did. I have a friend down the street from me who has a Sharp 10000. At halftime I ran over and checked out the game on his setup for awhile. I am not bashing any Sharp owners, but I genuinely thought the HS20's pic during the superbowl was superior to the 10000. Of course his setup is different (smaller screen, little bit of ambient light), The colors still popped more. The goal posts on the 10k were nice and yellow, but on the HS20 they almost looked electric the way they popped off the screen, my pic was brighter also (could be bulb, think he's got about 300+ hrs on his compared to 50+ on mine)


I've also read conflicting reports as to whether SDE is worse on the HS20 vs. the 10. I can say unequivicaly that on my unit the SDE is much less noticeable than it was on my HS10. Sitting 14.5 back from the screen I could see a hint of what looked like scan-lines on my hs10 on bright pans if I looked for it. With the HS20 at the same distance it looks smoother and more clear. It was easy to discern this while watching the Superbowl.


One thing I don't see mentioned often is the degree of flexibility the HS20 allows in tailoring the pq to your tastes. Being able to independently adjust the iris, gamma level and lamp power gives you a lot of flexibility. On HD I normally have the iris off to accentuate brightness. During critical viewing I may turn the iris on and adjust the gamma. Changing these variables does not effect the color balance either (to my eyes), it mainly effects the CR and blacklevel. To me this is helpful when viewing a broad range of content from different sources.


Since I ran my HS10 on high lamp mode a lot of the time, the fan noise began to be a pain. The hs20 fan on high is a bit lower than the HS10 fan on low I think. It is by no means silent, but it is no longer an issue with me.


It has been posted before and I can attest to the statement that the HS20 is brighter, has better color and is quieter than it's predecessor. Now, does it justify an upgrade if you already have the 10? In my opinion yes. It may sound like I was very unhappy with my HS10 and that was not the case. IF you project a smaller picture and don't need to run on high lamp and IF you don't mind calibrating to compensate for any CC filters you may use and IF you can get the HS10 for a good price I'd say go for it.


Before I got the 20 I looked at (only reports, didn't see any, except Runco) the Infocus 7200, 5700, Benq 8700 and Toshiba MT8 (7200 clone) and Runco CL710 (Benq 8700 clone?) YES, the black levels and CR of these PJ's are better than the HS20 regardless of what the specs say. I am very sensitive to rainbows so I was cautious about DLP. The CL710 I saw was gorgeous but too dim for my tastes (I am a brightness freak), I also saw a hint of rainbow but it was not distracting, although viewing time was limited. The infocus 5700 looks like a good alternative to the HS20 but the throw was too long for my setup, I was also concerned about it's resolution since HD is a big part of my viewing. I was going to throw my budget out the window and get the toshiba but decided to use the difference in price to upgrade other aspects of my system. I am not naive and think that what I am now seeing on my screen is as good as it gets, far from it. But compared to what I was used to and from what I have seen thus far, the HS20 will fill my HT needs until newer more affordable technology comes down the pike, unfortunately in this hobby I don't think that will be too long. So far I have only adjusted with AVIA, but after a few more hours on the lamp I'll try calibrating with SMART and think I'll bring out even more potential.


Keep in mind these are just my subjective opinions and yours may vary. Viewing before you buy does help but it's not always possible. Can you get HS20 pq for less, maybe (Z2, panny 500) but without other enhancements (hdmi, higher rez etc.) Can you get much better pq than HS20 for a little more, I don't think so. The perfect PJ for me is always the one I can't afford. And until 1080P PJ's come along or 3 chip dlp gets to the point that we are discussing them in the
 

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Anthony (Cilent1), thank you for filing that interesting and informative report. I think I am now about 99% sold on ordering an HS20.


/FP
 

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I just recalibrated my HS10 with the cinema filter instead of my cc40R (which had developed some severe discoloration). I have it tracking pretty well down to 10 IRE or so and it's a lot less dim.


The quieter fan sounds great, that is one thing that does bother me about the HS10, but even that is only during certain movies. I think I'll be able to stay happy with it for another year or two, maybe the HS30 will be the upgrade for me. ;)
 

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I just hooked up my HS20 recently. I noticed the difference immediately from the HS10. From a viewing distance of 13 feet I can not see any screen door effect. I have to get about 4 feet from the screen to see the pixels watching dvd's. I am very pleased with the smoothness of the picture. Definitely more film like with the smoothness. The contrast ratio is also improved. I don't know if it is 1300:1, but I notice the difference immediately on dvd's that have very dark scenes. The colors are more vibrant also. The High Def trailers during the superbowl were jaw dropping. These trailers looked just as good as the local cinema to me. If HD-DVD looks like the trailers displayed during the Superbowl then the local cinema is in trouble. I did not even know that my projector was on it was so quiet. I had doubts that Sony had improved this projector that much. Sony has a winner here. IMO it is an upgrade where the improvements can be seen. Anyone that would like to get more out of DVD's might consider the upgrade.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Cilent1
On the HS20 this same scene looked like someone had wiped mist off the screen and brought out more depth in the pic.
haha, can't believe you went there! :p;)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MovieGuy777
I just hooked up my HS20 recently. I noticed the difference immediately from the HS10. From a viewing distance of 13 feet I can not see any screen door effect. I have to get about 4 feet from the screen to see the pixels watching dvd's. I am very pleased with the smoothness of the picture.
Hmm, really? What was your diagnal? I am projecting on drywall with my hs20 and a 103inch diagnal (16:9) sitting about 12-13 feet back and I can see the screendoor, or atleast the effect of it pretty clearly. Compared (in my 6 month old memory) to the hs10 under identical conditions I had the same amount of screen door. My projector is perfectly focused but even 10 clicks right or left still had the screen door haze in the image. I did have the lense fully zoomed out to maximize the picture size. Is there variation on the units or is there something I can do to reach your evident level of performance?


-Jeremiah
 

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Jeremiah, I also have a 103 diagonal screen from Vutec. I'm sitting 13 feet away from the screen. Perhaps the drywall is a problem. I'll project mine onto the drywall tonight and see if that makes a difference with the SDE. The improvement with the SDE was one of the first things that I noticed with HS20 compared to the HS10. The only thing that has changed in my setup is the HS20. The softness from dvd player did make the image more pleasing to me on the HS10. My projector is zoomed almost to the max. I am really pleased with the smoothness of the image. I'm using the component feed. I also have an option on my Sony dvd player that makes the image soft. I will play with these settings and see what the result is.
 

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To me, the lack of 1:1 pixel mapping at 60hz precludes me from upgrading to the HS20.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by shugazer9
To me, the lack of 1:1 pixel mapping at 60hz precludes me from upgrading to the HS20.
This *almost* stopped me too, but having upgraded from the HS10, I am VERY glad I did. Anthony's comments are right on and I have reached the exact same conclusions he did. I did not think that the picture improvements would be worth the price difference because I too wanted the 60 Hz refresh for my HTPC. I gambled on just the picture differences and would do it again and again and again. The price difference is well justified, in my opinion.
 

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60hz... If the 1368x768 at 56hz rez is not good because you play video-based material, why not just use the 1280x768 at 60hz or 1280x720 at 60hz modes?


Judder test app. showed no judder at those 60hz resolutions on my system... what did I miss?


EDIT: I could be wrong. I did this when I first got the PJ. Now I'm hesitating if I did it correctly.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Jeremiah
Hmm, really? What was your diagnal? I am projecting on drywall with my hs20 and a 103inch diagnal (16:9) sitting about 12-13 feet back and I can see the screendoor, or atleast the effect of it pretty clearly. Compared (in my 6 month old memory) to the hs10 under identical conditions I had the same amount of screen door. My projector is perfectly focused but even 10 clicks right or left still had the screen door haze in the image. I did have the lense fully zoomed out to maximize the picture size. Is there variation on the units or is there something I can do to reach your evident level of performance?


-Jeremiah
How is you panel aligment ?

Screendoor is always subject to panel alignment issues. Imagine three RGB net layers super imposed one over each other to form a RGB picture. If the net pattern is not perfectly matched throughout the 3 layers you get a smaller perceived aperture (lower light) and an accentuated screen door.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by JulianVL
How is you panel aligment ?

Screendoor is always subject to panel alignment issues. Imagine three RGB net layers super imposed one over each other to form a RGB picture. If the net pattern is not perfectly matched throughout the 3 layers you get a smaller perceived aperture (lower light) and an accentuated screen door.
When my projector is fully zoomed in, which is where I have been watching it so far, on the cross-hair focus pattern I have to approach the screen real close to see a slight red tinge on the left I think and a slight green tinge on the right, this is uniform across all cross hatches. If that is misallignment I would say a half pixel for each. I do see the individial white pixels that make up the crosshatch image. When I had my projector in 1366x768 in windows with paint and a white dot on a black background I saw blue a half pixel to the left and green a half pixel down. I will have to look tonight and see if the green and blue are uniformly misalligned. Also my color temperature varies slightly across a white screen, it is slightly red on the left half and slightly normal or blue on the right half when table mounted.


-Jeremiah
 

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Hmm, I usually worry about 1/2 pixel shifts caused by panel misalignment.

I hope in your case it is caused by lens or RGB phase errors.

I'll take a shot of my pixel structure for comparison and post it.

I think it is about time we do that on a wider scale.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by JulianVL
Hmm, I usually worry about 1/2 pixel shifts caused by panel misalignment.

I hope in your case it is caused by lens or RGB phase errors.

I'll take a shot of my pixel structure for comparison and post it.

I think it is about time we do that on a wider scale.
I'll try and post the one picture I have of the white dot on a black background I have. I will also try and post a picture of this with the lense fully zoomed out. My camera has a hard time photographing in dark conditions. I was under the impression that half of all hs20 owners that posted on this forum have 1pixel or less misallignment which lead me to believe if I returned my unit, chances are 50% I would have the same allignment or worse. I have not been impressed at all with the quality of hs20 projectors based on people's experiences on this forum.


-Jeremiah
 

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This is the last one I have. Lense is zoomed out fully, horizontal is 94 inches, projected on textured drywall for all of the above pics, except for converge1.jpg which is about 92 inches and zoomed in fully.


-Jeremiah
 

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Thanks for the effort you folks put forward posting your experiences regarding picture quality, specifically, pixel alignment. For me this will make or break purchase of this model (H20).


Did the Sony VPL-VW12HT suffer pixel alignment problems?


Martin
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Leg One
Thanks for the effort you folks put forward posting your experiences regarding picture quality, specifically, pixel alignment. For me this will make or break purchase of this model (H20).


Did the Sony VPL-VW12HT suffer pixel alignment problems?


Martin
I don't know. I've only seen one 10HT and one 12HT, neither had problems. They both use 1.4inch panels which should make it easier to allign compared to the HS10 and HS20's cheaper 0.9 inch panels. Even so I can't really remember the hs10 having this many reports of pixel alignment problems, while I only saw 2 hs10's they both had perfect alignment. Anyone else care to comment?


-Jeremiah
 

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Jeremiah, I did get a chance on tuesday evening to experiment with the HS20. I use to have an HS10 but I recently upgraded to the HS20. I tested Independence Day on dvd and from a distance of 11 feet I could barely see SDE. From 13 feet I could not see SDE. I also put in Vertical Limit (Superbit) dvd and from 11 feet with the snow convered scenes and mountain scenes I could barely see SDE. And again from 13 feet SDE did not exist. From my normal seating distance of 13 feet, SDE was more pronounced on the HS10. I really appreciate the smoother film like images. Perhaps if you could view from a greater distance SDE will be a thing of the past.
 
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