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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just bought a SVS PB12 Plus.I have an Onkyo TX-NR818, with audyssey multEQ XT32. I have "dynamic volume" which compresses the dynamic range OFF. When I calibrate with Audyssey, I put my mic at the listening area and it has me adjust my subwoofer volume down to 75db. On my SVS PB12 plus that is -22.


After that is done the subwoofer volume in the receiver is set to 0DB. I also set the volume to 82db (THX reference level). When I play blu ray movies like this the subwoofer output is total weaksauce. For example, the brief club scene in Borne 2, there is chest thumping music in the club and I would expect to get chest thumping subwoofer output. Instead, at the "reference" levels audyssey has selected there is nothing even close to that.


To really get it up there I redid the audyssey calibration with my subwoofer output measuring at 87db. Audyssey sets the subwoofer output at -13db. I rewatched the scene and decided +2db (15db over "reference") seemed a lot more appropriate. The reason I did it this way is because the subwoofer volume will only go up 12db above 0.


So, what is going on? I know if I watched this movie in a movie theater I would get way more bass output in that scene than what audyssey thinks is "reference". Ideally I'd like to just see an increased dynamic range. I'd rather have that scene be chest thumping without having every other scene also have its bass +15db. Although, I much prefer this to an overall weaksauce subwoofer output.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by S1ingB1ade  /t/1458558/subwoofer-audyssey-calibration-weaksauce-reference-level#post_22973032


I just bought a SVS PB12 Plus.I have an Onkyo TX-NR818, with audyssey multEQ XT32. I have "dynamic volume" which compresses the dynamic range OFF. When I calibrate with Audyssey, I put my mic at the listening area and it has me adjust my subwoofer volume down to 75db. On my SVS PB12 plus that is -22.


After that is done the subwoofer volume in the receiver is set to 0DB. I also set the volume to 82db (THX reference level). When I play blu ray movies like this the subwoofer output is total weaksauce. For example, the brief club scene in Borne 2, there is chest thumping music in the club and I would expect to get chest thumping subwoofer output. Instead, at the "reference" levels audyssey has selected there is nothing even close to that.


To really get it up there I redid the audyssey calibration with my subwoofer output measuring at 87db. Audyssey sets the subwoofer output at -13db. I rewatched the scene and decided +2db (15db over "reference") seemed a lot more appropriate. The reason I did it this way is because the subwoofer volume will only go up 12db above 0.


So, what is going on? I know if I watched this movie in a movie theater I would get way more bass output in that scene than what audyssey thinks is "reference". Ideally I'd like to just see an increased dynamic range. I'd rather have that scene be chest thumping without having every other scene also have its bass +15db. Although, I much prefer this to an overall weaksauce subwoofer output.

I just ran Audyssey and it had all my speakers, sub included in the minus numbers. I pulled out my Radio Shack analog sound meter and went into the receivers (Integra 40.2) sound settings and calibrated it set at 80db. It bumped up my sub from -12 to +6. Not sure why Audyssey did this. Maybe someone more in the know can help.


Jeff
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by S1ingB1ade  /t/1458558/subwoofer-audyssey-calibration-weaksauce-reference-level#post_22973032


So, what is going on?

I've come to the conclusion that Murphy of "Murphy's Law" fame states unequivocally that the main listening position will always be in the deepest null in the room.


A suggestion, check you subwoofer distances as sometime Audyessy will get carried away and place your subwoofers next door. My understanding, this will reduce the mid-bass slam you post is lacking. If your subwoofers are equidistant, measure you subwoofers and then check the distance on the AVR setting and try adjusting accordingly.


Do you have room measuring capability for without this tool, even with sub crawls and sound meter in hand, one can never rationally be expected to get the best out of their subwoofer system.


Hope the above helps to get you going in the correct direction.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458  /t/1458558/subwoofer-audyssey-calibration-weaksauce-reference-level#post_22973337


I've come to the conclusion that Murphy of "Murphy's Law" fame states unequivocally that the main listening position will always be in the deepest null in the room.


A suggestion, check you subwoofer distances as sometime Audyessy will get carried away and place your subwoofers next door. My understanding, this will reduce the mid-bass slam you post is lacking. If your subwoofers are equidistant, measure you subwoofers and then check the distance on the AVR setting and try adjusting accordingly.


Do you have room measuring capability for without this tool, even with sub crawls and sound meter in hand, one can never rationally be expected to get the best out of their subwoofer system.


Hope the above helps to get you going in the correct direction.

Funny the 1st couple of times Audyssey had my sub, like you said, next door...the past several times it's been pretty close to the 12ish foot mark which is the distance from the sub to my chair.


Jeff
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
It thinks it is 8.5ft away... that's pretty much right.


I tried walking around the room and didn't notice much difference. It's not just the "chest thump"... that's just a good example. The overall volume from the sub that audyssey thinks is right seems really weak to me.


I tried watching "How to Train your dragon", which was recommended in the " Master List of BASS in Movies" thread as a 5 star movie. In the opening scene that has a few thumps with some of the explosions with the audyssey settings... but nothing approaching "intense" which is what I would expect it to be. When I turn it up... ya... intense... With the audyssey setting I see some explosions happen and feel nothing, it's like they're shooting blanks. When I turn it up every explosion has an effect.
 

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Based on you saying Audyssey has the distances correct, I'm going to back to your original statement of settings. At the main listening position, I set our subs gain setting so the sound meter shows 73dB. I calibrate each sub, each sub turned on separately for measuring purposes, at a measured 1m (39"), to 67dB (some recommend this measurement be taken at one foot or ~300mm and the combined measurement at the main listening position, both subs powered up, is 73dB. Then I run the EQ programs.


Before running Audyssey, based on your subwoofer's gain setting, what is your pink noise reading at the main listening position?
 

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Audyssey's goal of a flat frequency response sounds a bit lame in the LFE department to me as well. I always do the following post-Audyssey tweaks:


- Set all speakers to "Small" and crossovers to 80 Hz.

- Disable Audyssey's bells & whistles (Dynamic EQ & Dynamic Volume).

- Switch the Audyssey mode to Audyssey Flat. (That's Denon's nomenclature for the mode that eliminates the high-end roll off. Onkyo may have a different name for it.)

- Raise the subwoofer gain in the receiver 6 dB.

- Raise the center channel gain 3 dB to improve dialog intelligibility.


Once the tweaks are done I play a variety of music selections to hear if the low end sounds balanced. If it's over-bearing or weak I adjust the sub gain as desired.


Happy tweaking!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458  /t/1458558/subwoofer-audyssey-calibration-weaksauce-reference-level/0_80#post_22973709


both subs powered up, is 73dB.

Why 73?

Quote:
Then I run the EQ programs.


Before running Audyssey, based on your subwoofer's gain setting, what is your pink noise reading at the main listening position?

What would be the point of setting subwoofer gains prior to running Audyssey? Audyssey will just change them back. You need to run Audyssey first, and then compare to your SPL meter afterwards. Aud has always Fubard up sub settings, and usually needs to be changed after running it. You can also bump up the sub level based on how far below reference you listen to, if this applies to you.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict  /t/1458558/subwoofer-audyssey-calibration-weaksauce-reference-level#post_22973963


Why 73?

Simple. There are two schools of thought that I've read on the matter, one being 70dB and the other 75dB so I'm splitting the difference and going with the averages.

Quote:
What would be the point of setting subwoofer gains prior to running Audyssey? Audyssey will just change them back.

One is calibrating the sub output using pink noise and the subwoofer's gain potentiometer. The AVR's subwoofer gain setting is set to +/- 0. Audyssey or the AVR doesn't have the ability to change the subwoofer's gain setting. Since Audyssey is going be run, I set Audyssey to factory settings and then start the calibration efforts so this way, all of Audyssey's old settings are no longer a part of the calibration effort.

Quote:
You need to run Audyssey first, and then compare to your SPL meter afterwards. Aud has always Fubard up sub settings, and usually needs to be changed after running it. You can also bump up the sub level based on how far below reference you listen to, if this applies to you.

Agreed on the need to adjust the speaker settings after Audyssey is done and agree that Audyssey is a flawed product but, in my opinion, after it's all said and done, one doesn't want to change the subwoofer's gain until the next calibration effort. In my opinion, if one want to run it hot, my recommendation, do so at the AVR's, main menu level, which is the level that Audyssey's recommendations are effected.
 

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.....nm
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458  /t/1458558/subwoofer-audyssey-calibration-weaksauce-reference-level/0_80#post_22974153


Simple. There are two schools of thought that I've read on the matter, one being 70dB and the other 75dB so I'm splitting the difference and going with the averages.

Do you average your mains too?
Quote:
Audyssey or the AVR doesn't have the ability to change the subwoofer's gain setting.

But it does change the AVR sub gain which is effectively the same thing.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bass addict  /t/1458558/subwoofer-audyssey-calibration-weaksauce-reference-level#post_22974274


Do you average your mains too?

I know you're funnin me cause we both know mains are passive.

Quote:
But it does change the AVR sub gain which is effectively the same thing.

No, it changes the AVR's gain, not the sub's gain. The sub's gain is that little potentiometer dial thingy on the sub you use to calibrate your subs output, before running Audyssey and also, we both know that.


Reads more like you're just wanting to be a polemic as opposed to asking me a sincere question. If all you want to do is argue, I'll bow out of your line of questioning as I thought you were being sincere in your question.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458  /t/1458558/subwoofer-audyssey-calibration-weaksauce-reference-level#post_22974408


I know you're funnin me cause we both know mains are passive.

No, it changes the AVR's gain, not the sub's gain. The sub's gain is that little potentiometer dial thingy on the sub you use to calibrate your subs output, before running Audyssey and also, we both know that.


Reads more like you're just wanting to be a polemic as opposed to asking me a sincere question. If all you want to do is argue, I'll bow out of your line of questioning as I thought you were being sincere in your question.

I think the point is that Audyssey setup will put the sub so that a -30 dBFS bandwidth limited pink noise signal would be 70 dB in room (reference). If you turn down the gain on the sub, Audyssey will turn up the gain on the receiver, and vice versa. 70 dB is 70 dB regardless of how the intervening gain stages are set.


A touch confused, but you know AU]udyssey ignores all the settings in the receiver when it rune, right


OP, 2 things. I'm not sure how you are setting volume to what you think is THX reference. After Audyssey runs, your master volume on the receiver should put you at reference (leaving dialnorm out of the picture) when it as at zero. At that level the bass should sound and feel very loud. Because of how we hear (equal loudness curves can be googled) if the levels are significantly lower, the bass sounds "more quieter" than the midrange. To the extent that people increase their sub levels to account for this, I would argue that Audyssey's Dynamic EQ is a superior fix. The equal loudness curves are curves, not a plateau, and Audyssey can correct according to the curve in a way that simply raising the sub never can.


Of course lots and lots of people like the bass "more hotter" than DEQ would provide and raise their sub levels in the receiver to get the desired effect. All to the good if that's what you're after.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHAz  /t/1458558/subwoofer-audyssey-calibration-weaksauce-reference-level#post_22974534


A touch confused, but you know AU]udyssey ignores all the settings in the receiver when it rune, right

Yes. What point are you confused on?


I'm aware of what Audyssey is doing with the AVR gain settings.


-
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. My receiver doesn't show 0 when at reference... 0 would be no sound whatsoever. At 82 volume it says "THX Ref", so I assume that is reference. I'll check out the audyssey thread. I think I may just be a creatin and enjoy a really hot sub for movies. For music I admit the same levels I had for movies was overkill.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by S1ingB1ade  /t/1458558/subwoofer-audyssey-calibration-weaksauce-reference-level/0_50#post_22974882


Thanks for the suggestions everyone. My receiver doesn't show 0 when at reference... 0 would be no sound whatsoever. At 82 volume it says "THX Ref", so I assume that is reference. I'll check out the audyssey thread. I think I may just be a creatin and enjoy a really hot sub for movies. For music I admit the same levels I had for movies was overkill.

Your AVR has two ways of displaying the volume. You'll probably need to go into the menu and set the volume display to "relative" (or something like that). Then it will show in terms of dB, whereby 0dB is reference. Below reference will be shown, for example, as -5.0dB.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by S1ingB1ade  /t/1458558/subwoofer-audyssey-calibration-weaksauce-reference-level#post_22973032


I just bought a SVS PB12 Plus.I have an Onkyo TX-NR818, with audyssey multEQ XT32. I have "dynamic volume" which compresses the dynamic range OFF. When I calibrate with Audyssey, I put my mic at the listening area and it has me adjust my subwoofer volume down to 75db. On my SVS PB12 plus that is -22.


After that is done the subwoofer volume in the receiver is set to 0DB. I also set the volume to 82db (THX reference level). When I play blu ray movies like this the subwoofer output is total weaksauce. For example, the brief club scene in Borne 2, there is chest thumping music in the club and I would expect to get chest thumping subwoofer output. Instead, at the "reference" levels audyssey has selected there is nothing even close to that.


To really get it up there I redid the audyssey calibration with my subwoofer output measuring at 87db. Audyssey sets the subwoofer output at -13db. I rewatched the scene and decided +2db (15db over "reference") seemed a lot more appropriate. The reason I did it this way is because the subwoofer volume will only go up 12db above 0.


So, what is going on? I know if I watched this movie in a movie theater I would get way more bass output in that scene than what audyssey thinks is "reference". Ideally I'd like to just see an increased dynamic range. I'd rather have that scene be chest thumping without having every other scene also have its bass +15db. Although, I much prefer this to an overall weaksauce subwoofer output.
Audyssey Setup Guide (2012-05-07)-1.doc 170k .doc file


Please ignore the incorrect advice you've received in this thread. Read and follow the above Setup Guide. The correct answers are contained within.


Craig
 

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I agree Craig, it just amazes me the subject proper calibration just eludes some years after years.
 
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