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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The below write up is intended to help potential buyers who may be looking for some comparisons of these different subs.

Qualifier: All subs at this level are high quality. These are my impressions in my room so keep that context in mind. Use this information for comparisons of sound characteristics in the same environment for each sub. This is not intended to be a critique of any subwoofer so fan boys should calm down and look at it objectively and without blinders on please. This is just my experience and of some other AVS members who were present at these comparisons.

ROOM: 2100 cuft, sealed on a suspended floor. Tons of room gain, subs are up front symmetrical to MLP and corner loaded. The room is a determining factor for how your sub will perform from placement options to room gain. The room contributes about 70% in determining how things will sound IME

Typical listening level is -10MV with subs boosted 10db

Many of you may be aware of my sub journey last year where I went from my first sub which was a SVS PC12 NSD which I had for 7 years. Great sub for the price with excellent performance in a small sealed room. Simple, bullet proof set up and protection of the driver. However, I wanted to change and was introduced to the Seaton Submersives. These subs played very clean and packed a lot of power. However, the older speaker power amps were not as efficient as they are now and caused my ARC fault breakers (which are very sensitive) to trip. The cost to fix that was not worth it for me so ended up returning them. Still the benchmark for sealed subs IMO.

I then decided to try PSAs based on all the good things I heard about them and the price/performance ratio they offered. That brought me to dual PSA V1801s. The PSA are the most compact 18-inch ported sub on the market. They are very strong in the mid bass frequencies (35hz and up) but do struggle with lower tuned (20hz and below) which is below their port tuning. I have not been able to find their limit though. They pack tons of power for their size. I was after chest punch and the PSA certainly delivered. These subs provide a lot of performance for the price and their big attractions are integration in non-dedicated theatre rooms, top notch CS and warranty and trade in/up program.

At this point I thought I was done with my sub search as the PSA gave me everything I wanted. If I thought about what I was missing, I could not tell so was content with them. I then happened to find myself at Todd’s @toddct house with @tvuong who had recently purchased dual JTR 2400 ULFs. I was just curious to listen to them. His room is an open 7000 cuft space so quite different than mine. When I listened to them though I felt a real weight and thickness to the bass. It hit deep and hard and I heard and felt some frequencies on familiar scenes that I had not heard before. So that day when I came back I played the scenes in my room and felt that in comparison my subs felt shallow and hollow. This got me started on a search again…I had now experienced the low bass weight and I liked it and I wanted that in addition to mid bass punch.

Lucky for me, all the above coincided around the time Todd @toddct was planning a Houston GTG and decide to help coordinate. I was therefore able to have the JTR 118HT (2019 model) and a new FV18 rev 2 with paper cone to compare in my room. The JTR 118 has tremendous power and TR, it also seems to play a bit deeper than its tuning (20hz) would suggest. The sub plays very clean while providing incredible TR. It did very well at the Houston GTG where it was able to do a decent job filling a 7000 cuft open room. However, on low bass scenes it was noticeable that the sub was tuned to 20hz as it dropped like a rock below it. It was evident that it was missing the last 2/3rd of the lowest octave in scenes like EoT and pulse server. The older tuned 118 would still be my pick if I had to choose. At the promotional pricing however, this sub is real contender

The other sub I was able to demo quite a bit was the Rythmik FV18 rev 2 with paper cone. This was a new offering from Rythmik that no one had heard and was a new appearance for the Houston GTG. I will tell you that Brian has done an outstanding job with this sub and certainly addressed any concerns people have about Rythmik subs not having TR. The Rythmik had some distinct advantages compared to the 118HTs, larger cabinet, multiple tuning options (12/14/16) and servo. Since we had only one Rythmik, we compared against one JTR and it was clear that the Rythmik dug a lot deeper and was able to play all the Octaves in low tuned scenes the JTR could not. It also exhibited no port noise at all on any of the scenes. This was witnessed by Marc Alexander and Todd. Even at the GTG in an open room of 7000 cuft, it filled the room with authoritative bass and again without port noise. To show how well this sub performed it came in a close second to the JTR Cap 2400 at the GTG where mostly it was about output and room filling bass.
Now after the GTG, I was in a tangle, it was either the 118HTs for me or the Rythmik FV18s. However, there was one more “what if” left that needed to be addressed so I did not find myself at the same point where I was next year, and that was the JTR 2400. I cannot accommodate two of the ULFs so Todd brought over his sub to my room to serve as a proxy for the smaller 10hz tuned 2400. Jeff confirmed that this would give me an idea of how the 2400 would sound in my room.

The driver in the 2400 ULF is very different than the 118HTs, it looks and sounds totally different. The 2400 driver has a thick and a very room filling sound which makes it an ideal sub for large rooms. However what Todd and I noticed is that the 2400 lacked clarity in my small room and interfered with the other speakers regardless of the position of the LFA adjust knob. It seemed like the bass from the 2400 would keep hanging around and therefore did not seem to be as clear as what we had heard in Todd’s open room. It then became clear to me that the 2400 would not work for me in my room. @Marc Alexander had predicted that especially after having listened in my room which is said to be like a closet with tons of room gain. So now the choice was the 118s or the FV18. The 2400 is a stellar performer and for those with large rooms and/or only able to add one sub, this is an excellent choice.
At this point I was ready to exhaust all options and decided that to make my final decisions I will compare dual JTR 118s with dual FV18s. So, I went to Austin and picked up two paper cone FV18s. I did not say this above but from a packaging, fit and finish and just pure looks none of the subs were better than the FV18s, they are a beauty and would look nice in any living room.

So, the comparison began, and I wanted to make sure I had some help so Todd came over to help and offer his opinion. We did A/B comparisons of both subs, the JTRs were run with LFA at max and the FV18s were run first with 12hz/high damping and then in three port mode. The JTR seemed to have a more TR but lacked the depth and the bass seemed to have a bit more overhang but sounded fun. The FV18s sounded deep and tight. When we switched to the three ports mode on the FV18, the TR advantage the JTR had was pretty much gone but we still had a deeper growling bass. They felt like what a Cap 2400 ULF felt in Todd’s open room. The decision was clear the FV18 sounded better in all areas now for me in my room. It had the low bass weight I was looking for. To add to that we had not even turned off the rumble filter or used the PEQ to add more mid bass. So, things could only sound even better from here. The icing on top of this is the service from Rythmik. Both Brian and Enrico are very responsive.

As you can imagine, I ended up keeping the FV18s, returning the 118s and selling the V1801s. These subs look the best and easily sound as one the best. IMO any one considering a ported sub should look closely at the FV18 paper cone. They offer the Rythmik sound with plenty of TR and extremely low distortion.

I can tell you that in my house, things are falling off shelves they never had with any one of the subs I had including the JTR 118s. I deem that as success! These subs are a no-brainer for any one looking for a ported sub and especially if living with driving distance of Austin where you can save on shipping costs.

Kudos Brian @Rythmik on designing a fantastic sub that satisfies the most critical of listeners and those that only value TR…..:)

I hope people find this useful. Again not a critique of any sub but a relative comparison in the same environment which is a rare thing.

FV18 extension and CSL vs Minidsp UMIK difference

Check out the crazy in room extension of the FV18s :eek::eek: Also note the higher SPL reading of the CSL UMIK

Over 100db at 7hz!! :eek::D

 

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Great write up! While I still love my s3601's in my main room I recently added a Rythmik lv12r to my bedroom setup and I really like the sound of it. Bet those big brothers sound amazing.
 

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Great write up! While I still love my s3601's in my main room I recently added a Rythmik lv12r to my bedroom setup and I really like the sound of it. Bet those big brothers sound amazing.


Even though I just got new subs, the rythmiks would be be my absolutely next choice. I want to hear paper fv18 bad


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The below write up is intended to help potential buyers who may be looking for some comparisons of these different subs.

Qualifier: All subs at this level are high quality. These are my impressions in my room so keep that context in mind. Use this information for comparisons of sound characteristics in the same environment for each sub. This is not intended to be a critique of any subwoofer so fan boys should calm down and look at it objectively and without blinders on please. This is just my experience and of some other AVS members who were present at these comparisons.

ROOM: 2100 cuft, sealed on a suspended floor. Tons of room gain, subs are up front symmetrical to MLP and corner loaded. The room is a determining factor for how your sub will perform from placement options to room gain. The contributes about 70% in determining how things will sound IME

Typical listening level is -10MV with subs boosted 10db

Many of you may be aware of my sub journey last year where I went from my first sub which was a SVS PC12 NSD which I had for 7 years. Great sub for the price with excellent performance in a small sealed room. Simple, bullet proof set up and protection of the driver. However, I wanted to change and was introduced to the Seaton Submersives. These subs played very clean and packed a lot of power. However, the older speaker power amps were not as efficient as they are now and caused my ARC fault breakers (which are very sensitive) to trip. The cost to fix that was not worth it for me so ended up returning them. Still the benchmark for sealed subs IMO.

I then decided to try PSAs based on all the good things I heard about them and the price/performance ratio they offered. That brought me to dual PSA V1801s. The PSA are the most compact 18-inch ported sub on the market. They are very strong in the mid bass frequencies (35hz and up) but do struggle with lower tuned (20hz and below) which is below their port tuning. I have not been able to find their limit though. They pack tons of power for their size. I was after chest punch and the PSA certainly delivered. These subs provide a lot of performance for the price and their big attractions are integration in non-dedicated theatre rooms, top notch CS and warranty and trade in/up program.

At this point I thought I was done with my sub search as the PSA gave me everything I wanted. If I thought about what I was missing, I could not tell so was content with them. I then happened to find myself at Todd’s @toddct house with @tvuong who had recently purchased dual JTR 2400 ULFs. I was just curious to listen to them. His room is an open 7000 cuft space so quite different than mine. When I listened to them though I felt a real weight and thickness to the bass. It hit deep and hard and I heard and felt some frequencies on familiar scenes that I had not heard before. So that day when I came back I played the scenes in my room and felt that in comparison my subs felt shallow and hollow. This got me started on a search again…I had now experienced the low bass weight and I liked it and I wanted that in addition to mid bass punch.

Lucky for me, all the above coincided around the time Todd @toddct was planning a Houston GTG and decide to help coordinate. I was therefore able to have the JTR 118HT (2019 model) and a new FV18 rev 2 with paper cone to compare in my room. The JTR 118 has tremendous power and TR, it also seems to play a bit deeper than its tuning (20hz) would suggest. The sub plays very clean while providing incredible TR. It did very well at the Houston GTG where it was able to do a decent job filling a 7000 cuft open room. However, on low bass scenes it was noticeable that the sub was tuned to 20hz as it dropped like a rock below it. It was evident that it was missing the last 2/3rd of the lowest octave in scenes like EoT and pulse server. The older tuned 118 would still be my pick if I had to choose. At the promotional pricing however, this sub is real contender

The other sub I was able to demo quite a bit was the Rythmik FV18 rev 2 with paper cone. This was a new offering from Rythmik that no one had heard and was a new appearance for the Houston GTG. I will tell you that Brian has done an outstanding job with this sub and certainly addressed any concerns people have about Rythmik subs not having TR. The Rythmik had some distinct advantages compared to the 118HTs, larger cabinet, multiple tuning options (12/14/16) and servo. Since we had only one Rythmik, we compared against one JTR and it was clear that the Rythmik dug a lot deeper and was able to play all the Octaves in low tuned scenes the JTR could not. It also exhibited no port noise at all on any of the scenes. This was witnessed by Marc Alexander and Todd. Even at the GTG in an open room of 7000 cuft, it filled the room with authoritative bass and again without port noise. To show how well this sub performed it came in a close second to the JTR Cap 2400 at the GTG where mostly it was about output and room filling bass.
Now after the GTG, I was in a tangle, it was either the 118HTs for me or the Rythmik FV18s. However, there was one more “what if” left that needed to be addressed so I did not find myself at the same point where I was next year, and that was the JTR 2400. I cannot accommodate two of the ULFs so Todd brought over his sub to my room to serve as a proxy for the smaller 10hz tuned 2400. Jeff confirmed that this would give me an idea of how the 2400 would sound in my room.

The driver in the 2400 ULF is very different than the 118HTs, it looks and sounds totally different. The 2400 driver has a thick and a very room filling sound which makes it an ideal sub for large rooms. However what Todd and I noticed is that the 2400 lacked clarity in my small room and interfered with the other speakers regardless of the position of the LFA adjust knob. It seemed like the bass from the 2400 would keep hanging around and therefore did not seem to be as clear as what we had heard in Todd’s open room. It then became clear to me that the 2400 would not work for me in my room. @Marc Alexander had predicted that especially after having listened in my room which is said to be like a closet with tons of room gain. So now the choice was the 118s or the FV18. The 2400 is a stellar performer and for those with large rooms and/or only able to add on sub, this is an excellent choice.
At this point I was ready to exhaust all options and decided that to make my final decisions I will compare dual JTR 118s with dual FV18s. So, I went to Austin and picked up two paper cone FV18s. I did not say this above but from a packaging, fit and finish and just pure looks none of the subs were better than the FV18s, they are a beauty and would look nice in any living room.

So, the comparison began, and I wanted to make sure I had some help so Todd came over to help and offer his opinion. We did A/B comparisons of both subs, the JTRs were run with LFA at max and the FV18s were run first with 12hz/high damping and then in three port mode. The JTR seemed to have a more TR but lacked the depth and the bass seemed to have a bit more overhang but sounded fun. The FV18s sounded deep and tight. When we switched to the three ports mode on the FV18, the TR advantage the JTR had was pretty much gone but we still had a deeper growling bass. They felt like what a Cap 2400 ULF felt in a Todd’s open room. The decision was clear the FV18 sounded better in all areas now for me in my room. It had the low bass weight I was looking for. To add to that we had not even turned off the rumble filter or used the PEQ to add more mid bass. So, things could only sound even better from here. The icing on top of this is the service from Rythmik. Both Brian and Enrico as very responsive.

As you can imagine, I ended up keeping the FV18s, returning the 118s and selling the V1801s. These subs look the best and easily sound as one the best. IMO any one considering a ported sub should look closely at the FV18 paper cone. They offer the Rythmik sound with plenty of TR and extremely low distortion.

I can tell you that in my house, things are falling off shelves they never had with any one of the subs I had including the JTR 118s. I deem that as success! These subs are a no-brainer for any one looking for a ported sub and especially if living with driving distance of Austin where you can save on shipping costs.

Kudos Brian @Rythmik on designing a fantastic sub that satisfies the most critical of listeners and those that only value TR…../forum/images/smilies/smile.gif

I hope people find this useful. Again not a critique of any sub but a relative comparison in the same environment which is a rare thing.
Can you feel more TR with the FV18s than the dual PSAs V18s?

How about the differences in mid bass between those two?
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Can you feel more TR with the FV18s than the dual PSAs V18s?

How about the differences in mid bass between those two?
There is definitely more TR with FV18 but it is also different. The TR with the FV18s is lower and deeper. The PSA have TR as well but it thinner and therefore comes across weaker. The FV18 was right behind the Cap 2400 ULF TR which is saying a lot. In terms of mid bass difference I have not noticed too much of a difference especially in the all ports open mode (16hz). The FV18 also has the option to add about 3db using PEQ in the mid bass frequencies which I have not even explored yet so it can only get better from where I am.
 

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There is definitely more TR with FV18 but it is also different. The TR with the FV18s is lower and deeper. The PSA have TR as well but it thinner and therefore comes across weaker. The FV18 was right behind the Cap 2400 ULF TR which is saying a lot. In terms of mid bass difference I have not noticed too much of a difference especially in the all ports open mode (16hz). The FV18 also has the option to add about 3db using PEQ in the mid bass frequencies which I have not even explored yet so it can only get better from where I am.

Excellent write-up, Ray! You have been in the somewhat unique position of testing a number of very good subwoofers, in the same positions, in the same room. And, although other rooms, and other preferences, might affect other people's subwoofer choices, I think that your observations are still going to prove very valuable. I hope that your thread gets a lot of attention and is widely read. :)

The FV18's sound like a great all-around choice for your situation. Incidentally, don't forget about cascading crossovers. I suspect that they will only enhance what is already very good mid-bass.

Regards,
Mike
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Excellent write-up, Ray! You have been in the somewhat unique position of testing a number of very good subwoofers, in the same positions, in the same room. And, although other rooms, and other preferences, might affect other people's subwoofer choices, I think that your observations are still going to prove very valuable. I hope that your thread gets a lot of attention and is widely read. :)

The FV18's sound like a great all-around choice for your situation. Incidentally, don't forget about cascading crossovers. I suspect that they will only enhance what is already very good mid-bass.

Regards,
Mike
Thanks Mike, and your input throughout has been spot on and very useful. As you noticed I skipped out on a couple of subs on purpose as I either did not have enough time with them or were covered by very similar subs.

The FV18s paper cones have exceeded my expectations and of others at the GTG including Marc who has different versions of the FV18. The paper cone together with the revised ports make it an excellent sub for many applications. I am going to be getting some help from Enrico to really dial them in. Had it not been for the GTG I may have missed out on this sub...Also help from Marc, Todd, Tony, yourself, Enrico, Brian and Jeff P and has been very helpful and appreciated. Jeff P allowed me to demo the 118s after the GTG extensively which has been great
 

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Really great thread. I loved that you took the time, energy, and money to actually find the best fit for your room and your target goal. Those Ryhtmik FV18's seem like the real deal. I would love to listen to one someday. They sound like an even better version of my Monolith 15's in terms of being able to play clean even under 20hz.

Great write-up! I'm sure this will help many others.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Even though I just got new subs, the rythmiks would be be my absolutely next choice. I want to hear paper fv18 bad


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The FV18 paper cone has TR we would expect from a JTR with low distortion and tightness we expect from Rythmik. I seem to be first one to have these paper cones so not many will have them yet
 

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The FV18 paper cone has TR we would expect from a JTR with low distortion and tightness we expect from Rythmik. I seem to be first one to have these paper cones so not many will have them yet


That’s definitely a killer combination


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The FV18 paper cone has TR we would expect from a JTR with low distortion and tightness we expect from Rythmik. I seem to be first one to have these paper cones so not many will have them yet
I was gonna say, I didn't see this listed on their page.
 

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Thanks for that write up! Really interesting to read about these. Is there a link somewhere to read impressions from the GTG in Houston?

I know you sort of touched on it already, and that the FV18 has more "weight" to the bass, but when it comes to TR with mid bass, do you find the FV18 just as punchy and "chest thump" as the PSA 1801?
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Thanks for that write up! Really interesting to read about these. Is there a link somewhere to read impressions from the GTG in Houston?

I know you sort of touched on it already, and that the FV18 has more "weight" to the bass, but when it comes to TR with mid bass, do you find the FV18 just as punchy and "chest thump" as the PSA 1801?
Here is the link for the GTG

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-area-home-theater-meets/1512168-houston-surrounding-area-meet-12.html

I have not noticed any less. I have yet to make use of the PEQ option which would add about +3db to the midbass frequencies. This sub is deep for sure but in the FR I ran it was no less than the JTR 118 or the V1801 up top. These subs own scenes like EoT intro and pulse server room. I have not heard a sub play these scenes with this much authority. I am lucky to have a very nice room for bass as well. Todd even thought these subs played the EoT better than the Cap 2400 ULFs...:eek:
 

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Here is the link for the GTG

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/61-area-home-theater-meets/1512168-houston-surrounding-area-meet-12.html

I have not noticed any less. I have yet to make use of the PEQ option which would add about +3db to the midbass frequencies. This sub is deep for sure but in the FR I ran it was no less than the JTR 118 or the V1801 up top. These subs own scenes like EoT intro and pulse server room. I have not heard a sub play these scenes with this much authority. I am lucky to have a very nice room for bass as well. Todd even thought these subs played the EoT better than the Cap 2400 ULFs...:eek:
That's awesome. Thanks for sharing. Do you have a FR graph with these subs? Do you have REW?
 

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That's awesome. Thanks for sharing. Do you have a FR graph with these subs? Do you have REW?
This one that shows the difference. These are one sub to one sub. I have many others but on mdat and will have to open a snag jpgs which I can do later this week if there is enough interest. This with with no audyssey

 

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^^ Note that the graph has a 20db scale, so the difference at 20ish hz and below is HUGE which translates to a much deeper bass sound and TR felt.
 
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