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Cool, I'm not very knowledgeable about watergraphs but I get the big picture. I'm slowly making changes as I learn and can optimize my setup.

I looked at your graphs and tried to apply similar settings but if you want me to change something just let me know.

Todd


 
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excellent...tells me what I needed to know. these graphs how you listen to your movies most of time?
 

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excellent...tells me what I needed to know. these graphs how you listen to your movies most of time?
For the most part. I just got miniDSP so that is a recent change.

What, may I ask, does it tell you? Good, bad, some helpful adjustments? ;) Remember, I'm still learning.

Todd
 

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After reading all this, to me it sounds like the Fv25 is the key if I was going to upgrade


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Hey David,

What is the "key" you are looking for if you don't mind me asking? Just curious. Both subs are extremely capable.

Todd
 

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Just the articulation of bass for music and movies. Everybody seems to say that the rhythmic places a lot more detailed. Unless you’re at the Max limits of output, the rythmik should be the best choice for me


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I always wonder how people listen/setup their subs for movies as I dont watch many and I have my subs setup for music. in music I am picky on bass guitar and like a lil reverb but not too much. I like to use waterfall graphs to see ringing amount where I get a full sound but not bloated. but movies I was guessing that many just want as much as they can get of bass to include ringing. your graphs tell me you want the full bass and do have ringing(I may be wrong but thats what I think).
 

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I always wonder how people listen/setup their subs for movies as I dont watch many and I have my subs setup for music. in music I am picky on bass guitar and like a lil reverb but not too much. I like to use waterfall graphs to see ringing amount where I get a full sound but not bloated. but movies I was guessing that many just want as much as they can get of bass to include ringing. your graphs tell me you want the full bass and do have ringing(I may be wrong but thats what I think).
I do like the fuller sound of the 2400 but I probably do have some ringing. My room is multipurpose and I don't have any specific room treatments. In fact, my walls are pretty bare. Plus, it's a big room and open to a kitchen as well as 2 stair wells, so there you go.....

That is probably somewhat true for movies. But with ID subs, many people including myself, often times don't know what other subs sound like and thus have a hard time figuring that out. Do I want max spl, low bass TR, a midbass montster? They are used to what they have and only until they hear something different do they understand what they have or feel they are missing something. After my experiences, it kind of comes down to preference and room response. Both of those are huge factors IMO.

Thanks for your input.

Todd
 

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did you post the settings used on the amps of subs? and what kinda of crazy peak spl's they were hitting?
 

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Discussion Starter #469
Here are the distortion graphs. Both subs are low on distortion but as expected the FV25HP has the edge which to @David Charles’s question would be a factor for music. Even pushed to its max the FV25HP will have lower distortion. It’s a lot to do with the factors discussed earlier on






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Here are the distortion graphs. Both subs are low on distortion but as expected the FV25HP has the edge

What am I missing here?

In the graph, the FV25HP shows higher THD at a much lower fundamental.
 
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did you post the settings used on the amps of subs? and what kinda of crazy peak spl's they were hitting?
No we didn't take any measurements of spl at the settings we had. Suffice it to say, they were loud.:) +10bB hot at -5 MV, the amp setting for the FV25 was roughly at 3 o'clock and set at the 12hz tune and low dampening, the 2400 was roughly at 1 o'clock with LFA at max.

Todd
 
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Discussion Starter #472
What am I missing here?

In the graph, the FV25HP shows higher THD at a much lower fundamental.


I think it’s where my cursor was. The fundamental is higher for the FV25HP and the highest THD is at 2.9% at 26hz and third harmonic is way low. On the 2400 the highest THD is 5.8% at 24hz abs the third harmonic distortion is higher.


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I think it’s where my cursor was.

Thanks, figured that may have been the case. Based on most reports of the thicker sounding characteristics of the JTR driver and added TR, I’d probably prefer it vs the slightly more accurate reproduction of Rythmiks. This was what I found between SVS, PSA, and my DIY subs, with the latter two having a weightier feel and sound.

I’d love to hear them all in the same room!
 

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I think this conclusion that subs that can provide similar spl across the board but sound different in weight tonally is important. this sound difference is also very important in bookshelves/towers....I could see having my focals with a tad more weight in some areas.
 

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Discussion Starter #475
Thanks, figured that may have been the case. Based on most reports of the thicker sounding characteristics of the JTR driver and added TR, I’d probably prefer it vs the slightly more accurate reproduction of Rythmiks. This was what I found between SVS, PSA, and my DIY subs, with the latter two having a weightier feel and sound.

I’d love to hear them all in the same room!


That is why I feel very fortunate to have been able to hear pretty much all of these subs in my room. What SVS subs did you listen to? The weight is due to the low bass and I found that the SVS ultra and plus subs are tuned lower than the PSA 1801s I had and therefore I had more weight and low bass TR than the PSA. I am a bit surprised that you found PSA to have more weight given their tuning. That was the whole reason I upgraded to the FV18s, once I heard the low bass weight from Todd’s subs I realized what I was missing and the FV18 gave that to me.


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What SVS subs did you listen to?

The weight is due to the low bass and I found that the SVS ultra and plus subs are tuned lower than the PSA 1801s I had and therefore I had more weight and low bass TR than the PSA. I am a bit surprised that you found PSA to have more weight given their tuning.

I meant more the tonal character of the driver and not necessarily the depth of bass reproduction when discussing the sound signature of the drivers being thicker and/or more full. The PSA’s don’t dig as deep in my large room by themselves due to their higher tuning.

From SVS, I’ve owned a PC12+ for a few years, and a PB 1K and SB2K that I sold/traded.
 

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Discussion Starter #477
I meant more the tonal character of the driver and not necessarily the depth of bass reproduction when discussing the sound signature of the drivers being thicker and/or more full. The PSA’s don’t dig as deep in my large room by themselves due to their higher tuning.

From SVS, I’ve owned a PC12+ for a few years, and a PB 1K and SB2K that I sold/traded.
Yeah, not sure I am following completely. The SVS subs I tested and have listened have the PB13 Ultra and the PB16 Ultra and they both carried weight compared to the PSA. The Rythmik and JTR even more so...
 

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Yeah, not sure I am following completely. The SVS subs I tested and have listened have the PB13 Ultra and the PB16 Ultra and they both carried weight compared to the PSA. The Rythmik and JTR even more so...
I took it to mean @Sekosche might prefer the different tonal characteristics of the JTR due to the slightly higher distortion which can make for a "thicker/weighty" sound - urgh I hate trying to use these ridiculous sounding subjective terms lol (also please correct me if I'm wrong please Sekosche!)
 
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To recap:

JTR Cap 2400ULF:
40Hz @ 99.7 dB @ 1.57% THD
32Hz @ 102.8 dB @ 0.40% THD
25Hz @ 100.2 dB @ 0.41% THD
20Hz @ 98.6 dB @ 0.71% THD
16Hz @ 97.1 dB @ 2.57% THD
12Hz @ 95.5 dB @ 15.2% THD

Rythmik FV25HP:
40Hz @ 101.3 dB @ 0.48% THD
32Hz @ 102.7 dB @ 0.57% THD
25Hz @ 100.5 dB @ 0.76% THD
20Hz @ 98.6 dB @ 0.98% THD
16Hz @ 97.5 dB @ 2.22% THD
12Hz @ 90.1 dB @ 5.36% THD

At comparable loudness from 16Hz to 32Hz, the 2400ULF is neck to neck with the FV25HP. They both have extremely low THD at between 0.40~2.57%. I don't think anyone can tell the difference between 0.40% THD and 0.60% THD.

Yet, playing 20Hz at 99dB, the 2400ULF will sound very different from the FV25HP. This is definitely not because the 2400ULF has higher THD.

I am surprised that no one has brought up the difference in extension:



@ 10Hz, the 2400ULF beats the FV25HP by 23dB!!! The FV25HP's drops like a rock below 13Hz while the 2400ULF is still going strong.
 
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