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Discussion Starter #1
paradigm pdr10 is nice for movies, not for music. i hate it. the bass is not really defined, i can only hear low boom boom boom, it doesnt even thump my chest.


i did everything people told me ( from this forum and from 3dsoundsurge forum ), like placement, good wire, setting the speakers to small on receiver, break in phase...everything.


the sub sucks. there is really a big gaping hole in the middle, even my pc speaker ba4800 with dual 6.5 subwoofers has more defined bass.


i need advice! 80 percent music, 20 percent movies.


what about boston acoustics pv-600? or velodyne cht-10? which one is better for music?


thanks in advance! i will return pdr10 today to the shop. it sucks
 

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Just curious but what kind of main speakers were you using?

I am one of those who believe that allowing the main speakers, providing they are towers to handle the mid bass improves the sound dramatically. I improved my bass quality by adding a Paradigm X-30 sub controller which allows more control over bass management. The mid bass is much better coming from the Towers ( Paradigm 60's) and the sub handles only the lower bass.

What type of sub cable did you end up choosing? I found the quality ( tightness and pitch definition) improved by switching from Monster to a Teflon based sub cable ( RhinoCables.com)
 

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The PDR-10 is really a very basic unit and it is priced as such. Almost not a subwoofer. More of a bass unit.


Begs the question, what is your budget? The Paradigm PW-2200 is a terrific sub but that is going to be twice the price (and size) of the PDR-10.


I've been using a Velodyne CT-150 for a while and like it a lot but like the Paradigms, that's no indication of what the CT-10 would be like.
 

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vhylynx,

With 80/20 a/v ratio, I encourage you to give the nht "supersub"

a listen. outstanding speed, robust power amp, a/v mode switch,

beautiful finish outclasses similarly priced units.
 

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Quote:
originally posted by phylynx:
paradigm pdr10 is nice for movies, not for music. i hate it. the bass is not really defined, i can only hear low boom boom boom, it doesnt even thump my chest.
I'm actually very surprised to read about your dissatisfaction with the PDR-10. I had the opportunity to listen to one together with Paradigm Studio/20's and I thought that it provided nice tight bass. Considering its size and price point I believe it to be a very good value. But that's just my opinion and you are entitled to your own.


Being only a 10" sub I don't think you can expect chest pounding

SPL. You have to remember that it only has a 110w internal amp and its low frequency extension is only 27 Hz.

Quote:
originally posted by phylynx:
the sub sucks. there is really a big gaping hole in the middle, even my pc speaker ba4800 with dual 6.5 subwoofers has more defined bass.
Were you using the LFE output of your receiver? Was the bass/sub set to sub only or mains or both? When it's speakers are set to small, what is the receiver's x-over set to? At what setting did you have the sub's variable crossover frequency? And to repeat magster, What are your speakers?
 

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i don't have the pdr10 but have the pdr12, its bigger brother.

at first, i have a hard time integrating this with my front speakers and it is really boomy. when i checked the subwoofer output using individual test tones, there are peaks of about +5db ~ 15db from 45hz to 70hz. i still don't have the parametric equalizer and i just tried to position the sub to minimize these peaks and i got a better integration with my main speakers. i think that the boomy sound of most subwoofer is due to the room induced peaks that we perceive as boominess. this is just from my experience and opinion and i hope that this can be of help.

(by the way, i am also using the x20 control from paradigm as this gives me a better result)
 

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Same problem here with the PDR10, with a solution similar to "aga."


I was able to tame the peaks by moving the sub under a coffee table in the middle of the room. One of the (few) advantages of a small sub. :)


jdg
 

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Discussion Starter #8
i found that i forgot to play around with the tone defeat. midwest stereo employee helped me with the denon receiver, and now the sub really sounds good. sorry to ask you guys silly question like this, i am inexperienced, and the user interface on denon receiver sucks.


btw i am using paradigm cinema. to purchase a much more expensive sub would be innappropriate. 27 hz is enough for me!


1-what is tone defeat?

2- the difference between bass unit and a subwoofer???
 

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1. im not familiar with denon so i cannot answer what is the tone defeat function in the receiver.

2. a subwoofer as the term implies must reproduce those low frequencies at usable level beyond the capability of the main speakers. some music and dvd's contain materials that go down to 16hz or below but that is not so common. if your unit can have substantial output at 25hz then it is good enough because most dvd lfe's only go down to this freq.

some people call the wannabe subwoofer bass modules because they can only really produce usable output at about 30hz or above.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by vhylynx
i found that i forgot to play around with the tone defeat. midwest stereo employee helped me with the denon receiver, and now the sub really sounds good. sorry to ask you guys silly question like this, i am inexperienced, and the user interface on denon receiver sucks.


btw i am using paradigm cinema. to purchase a much more expensive sub would be innappropriate. 27 hz is enough for me!


1-what is tone defeat?

2- the difference between bass unit and a subwoofer???
As I said before I'm not really familar with the Denon receivers. But unless your receiver has an otherwise special purpose for "Tone Defeat" (which I doubt it does - check your owner's manual) the term ususally applies to a function that will cause the bypass of any adjustements you have manually made to the Tone Controls (i.e. Bass & Treble).


I confirm aga's basic explanation of the difference between a bass module and a subwoofer.
 

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First, based on my experience in stores with the Paradigm, I think it is a good sub. Since you've tried placement, I suspect you may just have room issues (square room, to big a room, to small a room, etc.).


That said, if you're really dissatisfied, try the HSU VTF-2. You should be able to pick it up for $400.00 and you will not have these problems. It is tight, fast and LOW for the $. Plus you can tune it from maximum extension
 

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Is your sub on spikes or some other kind of sound isolator. I vastly improved the sound from my sub by mounting it on tip toes, which acoustically isolate the sub from the floor. The sub was moving the floor and this was causing slow blurry response from the driver.


3 spikes ar better than 4 beacuse you do not need to level them.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by vhylynx
btw i am using paradigm cinema. to purchase a much more expensive sub would be innappropriate. 27 hz is enough for me!
Paradigm's Cinema Series Blockbuster package is a very nice entry level system for HT. I often recommend it, especially as a bedroom system. Having the option to use the 10" sub (instead of the 'recommended' PDR-8) should be a wise decision. When I had the opportunity to listen to the Cinema's it was in a very small enclosed room at a dealer's showroom but I thought they reproduced the DVD soundtracks quite well, considering their size.


If you're still having problems with the sub it may indeed be room boundery effect but I would review all your receiver's set-up menu options to make sure they are set properly as well checking the level of the sub's crossover frequency. You never did answer the questions I asked in my earlier post:


Were you using the LFE output of your receiver?

Was the bass/sub set to sub only or mains or both?

When it's speakers are set to small, what is the receiver's x-over set to?

At what setting did you have the sub's variable crossover frequency?


If you still need help, please give me that information. Your room dimesions and placement of the sub would also help.
 

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FYI: I've really been working with the PDR-10 lately, and I've found something interesting: turning down the cross-over on the sub really allows you to boost the low-end, and flattens out the frequency repsonse curve (FR).


I found this info at http://www.audio-ideas.com/reviews/h...gm-stylus.html . The FR chart shows that, by moving the sub's cross-over down to 90Hz (I use 100Hz), that you can turn up the sub, and thus the low ranges, without adding to the 40-100Hz range. I've checked this out on my sub, and the FR results are very flat, less a room induced lull at 45Hz that I would need an equalizer to remove.


Now, this is not an SVS :) but for my room I've still only got the sub's power dial at 60% -- so it works for me. It also helps if your mains can go down to 40Hz, allowing you to set the receiver's cross-over at 80Hz. Per a previous post, it is my understanding that setting the sub's cross-over at 100Hz should not step on much of the LFE signal, as this (per specs) has a hard stop at 120Hz.


jdg
 
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