[dkersten]

I am going to run 6 UM18-22's in my new theater off of 3 inuke 6000 amps. Would it be better to run nu6000dsp's or the non-dsp's and use a minidsp 4x10HD? It's a few hundred more to go with the minidsp, but if it gains me a lot it is well worth it..

I am thinking of just throwing out sanity completely and going all large ported enclosures instead of small sealed. Which option would be best for protecting the woofers in this case? The inuke doesn't have a subsonic filter below 20hz, but then I have never simultaneously tried to get sub-20hz bass while protecting a woofer below the tuned frequency of the enclosure. I never played with the protection on the inuke in my last theater, so I am unsure the best way to play this out... Is current limiting better than a subsonic filter in a situation like this? And can the minidsp do a lower subsonic filter?

As for placement, I am a bit undecided. I will probably go 2 in the back and 4 in the front (27'x17'x9' room). Unless someone has a very compelling argument for subs anywhere other than in front and/or behind, I am hesitant to upset the aesthetics of the room with mid-room subwoofer enclosures. Hard to hide an 18" sub with a large ported enclosure in a column...

I will be running all balanced pre/pro and amps. This is another area I am fuzzy on - the minidsp says it can run balanced or unbalanced, so does that mean I have to wire my own XLR's to the terminal blocks on the back of the unit? I can't see a good pic on their website and I have never used the minidsp products, so I am just guessing... There is only one XLR output in the pic, so how do you get 10 channels of balanced output?

Is the minidsp the best option for multiple subs? Does it play well with Dirac Live on the pre/pro?

Any other advice here? The only thing I already have are the subs, the rest is still up in the air. (Well, I have the pre/pro and amps for the mains, surrounds, and atmos already, and I am pretty dead set on Titan LX's and Volt 10's for those speakers too, but the bass is still up in the air)

 

[FriscoDTM]

Consider dual FP14ks clone amps plus a Balanced MiniDSP

 

[EndersShadow]

@eng-399 has used both iNuke's DSP and also a MiniDSP 2x4 balanced. I think he would tell you the MiniDSP is by far a better tool than the iNuke DSP.

At min he's got the option of saving a file on his PC with all his settings and not having to screenshot all the iNuke DSP screens and manually change them if they get wiped (which has happened to him a few times).

I've never used the iNuke DSP, but when building my subs my options were the iNuke DSP models, or spend more and get any amp and then the MiniDSP. I went with the second option.

I am very happy with my decision. I've got a thread on my custom minidsp enclosure that I think takes it to the next level (but its not cheap either).

 

[eng-399]

My thoughts on all of this is buy the inuke amp with the dsp because if you decide to sell it in a few years guys will buy it vs the non dsp version. I recently went through that and passed on a non dsp amp...
as for the minidsp I prefer that over using the inuke dsp and use the advanced 2/4 plug in for it.

What I find helpful using the minidsp vs the inuke dsp is I have 4 inuke amps and having to plug every amp in and out of my laptop during calibration is a pain in the neck. I even had four cables all marked so I wouldn’t have to get up after every sweep to took to adjust stuff.

The minidsp is a all in one solution to my setup because of a few things like being able to create a custom house curve, still able to add delay, filters, a MASTER LEVEL control for all subs once there dialed in and lastly one cable from that minidsp to my laptop that controls all 4 amps at once. Having the option alone to me was worth the money.
The curve you can create can be a lot of fun where your low end of the graph let’s say 10hz. Can be hot and then gradually slopes down to your crossover point with your mains. Very cool stuff it does.

 

[tecknurd]

From the manual of inuke 6000 DSP, the miniDSP will give you more options to work with.

The miniDSP 4x10 HD requires you to wire bare wire to the terminal on the back if you are using balanced audio for the output. The pictures on their site show this. Also, the manual shows this. You can use either XLR or Speakon connectors.

The miniDSP 4x10 HD is basically two analog channel input and eight analog channel output. The XLR connectors are for digital in and digital out.

Don't forget to buy a plug-in for your miniDSP or else it just is a stupid black box. I suggest reading the manual that is posted on miniDSP website to find out which plug-in works best for your setup. I think the plug-in that works just fine for you is the following.

https://www.minidsp.com/products/plugins/4x10-10x10-plug-ins/10x10-plug-in-detail

The sampling rate that the plug-in sets for miniDSP 48 KHz. This is plenty for subwoofer processing.

Use a speaker simulator program that gives you an ability to add a high pass filter. Adding a high pass filter is required for ported boxes because any frequencies below the tuning make the cone become exponentially out of control. Some movies can easily store infrasonic frequencies that will damage a subwoofer. The miniDSP can set its high pass filter to be 10 Hz and you can play with different orders up to 8th. Though using high order filters increases delays.

 

[jsgrise]

The curve you can create can be a lot of fun where your low end of the graph let’s say 10hz. Can be hot and then gradually slopes down to your crossover point with your mains. Very cool stuff it does.

Don't want to hijack the OP's thread but I started to play with my iNuke's DSP seriously for the first time yesterday. Audyssey is killing my sub 55Hz bass due to room gain peak so I added a +2.5dB LS6 filter at 35Hz. Low bass seems to be back and I'll keep trying different filters/gain until I get it as I want.

Now I know that this is a highly subjective question but what is usually OK to do and not to do with the EQ gain? Is it common to use LS filters after running Audyssey?

 

[EndersShadow]

Now I know that this is a highly subjective question but what is usually OK to do and not to do with the EQ gain? Is it common to use LS filters after running Audyssey?

Thats gonna be a personal preference so you will get lots of answers on both sides. I have one on my sealed subs and very much like it. I think its slowly becoming more popular, though many call it a "House Curve" as its suited to preference.

 

[Spectre55]

I am going to run 6 UM18-22's in my new theater off of 3 inuke 6000 amps. Would it be better to run nu6000dsp's or the non-dsp's and use a minidsp 4x10HD? It's a few hundred more to go with the minidsp, but if it gains me a lot it is well worth it..

I am thinking of just throwing out sanity completely and going all large ported enclosures instead of small sealed. Which option would be best for protecting the woofers in this case? The inuke doesn't have a subsonic filter below 20hz, but then I have never simultaneously tried to get sub-20hz bass while protecting a woofer below the tuned frequency of the enclosure. I never played with the protection on the inuke in my last theater, so I am unsure the best way to play this out... Is current limiting better than a subsonic filter in a situation like this? And can the minidsp do a lower subsonic filter?

As for placement, I am a bit undecided. I will probably go 2 in the back and 4 in the front (27'x17'x9' room). Unless someone has a very compelling argument for subs anywhere other than in front and/or behind, I am hesitant to upset the aesthetics of the room with mid-room subwoofer enclosures. Hard to hide an 18" sub with a large ported enclosure in a column...

I will be running all balanced pre/pro and amps. This is another area I am fuzzy on - the minidsp says it can run balanced or unbalanced, so does that mean I have to wire my own XLR's to the terminal blocks on the back of the unit? I can't see a good pic on their website and I have never used the minidsp products, so I am just guessing... There is only one XLR output in the pic, so how do you get 10 channels of balanced output?

Is the minidsp the best option for multiple subs? Does it play well with Dirac Live on the pre/pro?

Any other advice here? The only thing I already have are the subs, the rest is still up in the air. (Well, I have the pre/pro and amps for the mains, surrounds, and atmos already, and I am pretty dead set on Titan LX's and Volt 10's for those speakers too, but the bass is still up in the air)

I had the exact same question of mini DSP vs iNuke DSP. You beat me to the punch. Thanks for posting and everyone for their answers.

 

[jsgrise]

Thats gonna be a personal preference so you will get lots of answers on both sides. I have one on my sealed subs and very much like it. I think its slowly becoming more popular, though many call it a "House Curve" as its suited to preference.

Thank you!

Do you use a LS6 or LS12 filter? At what frequency and gain?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[EndersShadow]

Thank you!

Do you use a LS6 or LS12 filter? At what frequency and gain?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well I'm using a MiniDSP so its just called a Low Shelf Filter in their software I believe. I will just post a screenshot of it from the MiniDSP software. I can tell you its a MASSIVE bump because I like lots of bass but dont normally listen super loud, so I can boost high just cant crank the volume as much before I risk clipping the amp or blowing my subs, and IIRC I think I have mine starting around 50hz...

Again, all that is going to depend on listener preference and how the room responds to your sub(s).

Not sure what the differences are in the iNuke DSP for those two.

 

[dkersten]

Adding a high pass filter is required for ported boxes because any frequencies below the tuning make the cone become exponentially out of control.

I totally get the point of a subsonic filter, I just have a hard time seeing the effectiveness starting one at 10hz. I think my hang up on it is in car audio you are dealing with tuned frequencies around 30 hz, so putting a 30hz hpf is giving you a lot of filter by the time you get to 10 hz. When you start at 10hz, it doesn't seem like it would do a lot. But I guess if I am thinking of it in terms of octaves and translating the drop in db to power output, it makes more sense. 5 hz is one octave below 10 hz, so a 24db/octave filter at 10hz is still going to drop your output at 5hz by 24 db. If 3db down is half the power, then 24 db down means you are cutting power in half 8 times from 10hz to 5hz, which is significant. That is one hell of a steep slope. Am I doing the math right?

 

[dkersten]

Now I know that this is a highly subjective question but what is usually OK to do and not to do with the EQ gain? Is it common to use LS filters after running Audyssey?

On my last setup, which was running 2 UM18-22's sealed with one inuke6000dsp, I had better luck doing negative eq'ing in large swaths with only a couple small bumps, nothing more than a few db up, but a few filters were upwards of -10db with a really wide Q to pull large ranges down. It seemed to work far better than when I just tried to get the low spots bumped up. Plus then I wasn't running any small frequency ranges way hot and risking damage. I honestly don't know the physics well enough to say if there is really a difference though. In either case, I suppose you are effectively increasing output of the ranges your room and listening position is cancelling out, so perhaps it really doesn't matter. In my case I just found it easier to bring the peaks down than to try to bring the valleys up.

As for post processing, I would tweak the subs to get them fairly flat with DSP, then run Dirac Live (Audyssey when I had a Denon), and then I mostly just played with volume after that. With Audyssey, I don't see anything wrong with tweaking your DSP after running the correction, at least on the lower end. It might start messing with your mains when you get closer to the crossover point but a full sweep with all speakers on will tell you if you messed that up.
With Dirac, there is so much more going on that I never messed with it after I ran the Dirac corrections, aside from volume adjustments.

This is one of my questions though - Should I let Dirac EQ my subs, given that part of Dirac is helping to reduce resonation. That was the biggest improvement when I moved from Audyssey to Dirac - my waterfall graphs improved significantly, and the room just sounded better. But so many people say they got a miniDSP and want to exclude the subwoofer range from Dirac. I am unclear on this...

 

[dkersten]

@eng-399 are you running a single 2x4 then and eq'ing multiple subs with each channel? Do you EQ each sub individually or as a whole? Or are you just running the measurements and letting the software do all the calculations?

 

[jsgrise]

On my last setup, which was running 2 UM18-22's sealed with one inuke6000dsp, I had better luck doing negative eq'ing in large swaths with only a couple small bumps, nothing more than a few db up, but a few filters were upwards of -10db with a really wide Q to pull large ranges down. It seemed to work far better than when I just tried to get the low spots bumped up. Plus then I wasn't running any small frequency ranges way hot and risking damage. I honestly don't know the physics well enough to say if there is really a difference though. In either case, I suppose you are effectively increasing output of the ranges your room and listening position is cancelling out, so perhaps it really doesn't matter. In my case I just found it easier to bring the peaks down than to try to bring the valleys up.



As for post processing, I would tweak the subs to get them fairly flat with DSP, then run Dirac Live (Audyssey when I had a Denon), and then I mostly just played with volume after that. With Audyssey, I don't see anything wrong with tweaking your DSP after running the correction, at least on the lower end. It might start messing with your mains when you get closer to the crossover point but a full sweep with all speakers on will tell you if you messed that up.

With Dirac, there is so much more going on that I never messed with it after I ran the Dirac corrections, aside from volume adjustments.



This is one of my questions though - Should I let Dirac EQ my subs, given that part of Dirac is helping to reduce resonation. That was the biggest improvement when I moved from Audyssey to Dirac - my waterfall graphs improved significantly, and the room just sounded better. But so many people say they got a miniDSP and want to exclude the subwoofer range from Dirac. I am unclear on this...

I have always let XT32 take care of EQing the subs first, but I might try a different approach since I find it takes way too much of the low bass away.

The Low Shelf filters is not an high Q EQ but a boost that increase as the frequency decrease.

I am also very curious of other fellows experience of EQing sub before and after Audyssey/Dirac/Arc etc



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[eng-399]

@eng-399 are you running a single 2x4 then and eq'ing multiple subs with each channel? Do you EQ each sub individually or as a whole? Or are you just running the measurements and letting the software do all the calculations?

I run the minidsp balanced 2/4 and run all 4-21’s off of one channel and the other channel my 6-15’s Nearfield. The front four subs act like one big sub and the same with the rear. The plug in use is the 2/4 advanced plug in.
We turned Audy off. Level matched the subs, then added delays and the ran Audy xt32. Once this was done I was lucky enough where I didn’t need any filters and had a flat graph. I have two pre outs for subs but Audy always messes up the delay and distance on the second set so I’m only using one sub pre out for everything. The center channel distance was also readjusted along with the left and right mains to have everything dialed in right. After this was all said and done a house curve was Applied so the bottom end would be boosted higher.

 

[jsgrise]

I run the minidsp balanced 2/4 and run all 4-21’s off of one channel and the other channel my 6-15’s Nearfield. The front four subs act like one big sub and the same with the rear. The plug in use is the 2/4 advanced plug in.
We turned Audy off. Level matched the subs, then added delays and the ran Audy xt32. Once this was done I was lucky enough where I didn’t need any filters and had a flat graph. I have two pre outs for subs but Audy always messes up the delay and distance on the second set so I’m only using one sub pre out for everything. The center channel distance was also readjusted along with the left and right mains to have everything dialed in right. After this was all said and done a house curve was Applied so the bottom end would be boosted higher.

Nice! There seems to be a Q adjustment on the MiniDSP for the LS filters, unlike the iNuke DSP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[aron7awol]

I would say that the DSP in the iNuke is sufficient in 90%+ of cases, but the more complicated edge cases may require something more capable like a MiniDSP.

One reason to need a MiniDSP would be if you need filters

 

[EndersShadow]

Hey Mike @eng-399, think I like my bass a tad bit hot lol...

*keep in mind I keep my normal volume quite low, so while this would appear to clip my subs and or amp, I can promise you the inputs on the MiniDSP dont clip until I get to levels I dont listen to, and the amp LED's never hit their limiter and I've checked that the subs aren't in danger of exploding....

 

[corradizo]

INuke DSP also has DEQ