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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Entire room size is 7000 cubic feet open floor plan with 20 foot ceilings and living, kitchen, and dining room in same room.


Listening area (living room): 12 ft length x 10 ft width x 20 ft height


Equipment:

Infinity p363 fronts

Infinity p163 center

Infinity p163 surrounds

Denon 1712 with Audyssey MultEQ XT






I am a subwoofer noob, did some research, but still need some help. I know $400 is a low budget for subwoofers, but wondering if I can get some satisfying bass with this budget. I plan to set crossover at 60hz for center/surrounds, maybe set the p363 at 40hz/60hz


It looks like dual subs next to the bed, right in front of my rear equipment stands would look great. Don't know if they will sound great though.


But dual subs would mean something cheaper like bic f12, with less extension, and can't be as big if I go duals. If I go single, more expensive, larger subwoofer, probably can only get one. If I place the dual subs nearfield, it seems I might get satisfying bass, but I'm not sure. A single large subwoofer would probably have to be placed somewhere along the wall where my antenna is hanging off the lamp, LOL. Not much room by my tv to place a subwoofer as I don't want my front speakers to close to the sidewall or blocking the walking area.


The subs will be mostly for movies. I think for music, I'll just turn off and enjoy 2 channel. But I still don't want one note bass.


Go duals, single, what should I get?


Thanks for any help.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I haven't seen that subwoofer mentioned. I should check it out.


Do you think dual subs would sound better than a single sub, if placed both on sides of the bed, right in front of the rear equipment stands? Just wondering if giving up extension is worth it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hmm, some mentions of amp issues with the jbl es250 give me some pause. Klipsch rw-12 was another option, but port plugs falling off and some other issues from users.


I wonder how those cheapo dayton sub-1200 sound like, maybe one note bass: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?partnumber=300-629


HSU STF-2 probably not enough output.


If placed nearfield, could the stf-2 be enough?
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
So seems like most say bass extension is very important for movies, but multi subs is important too. Everybody seems to be going for the klipsch rw-12d in under $400 price range.


Is 20-25hz low extension really that important for movies? I do like action movies but I think dual 10" subs on both sides may sound good. 10" subs don't usually have good extension though.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by csgamer  /t/1471965/subwoofer-noob-400-budget-single-dual#post_23295016


Is 20-25hz low extension really that important for movies?

Yes.


In reality, having a flat, in my opinion, +/-3dB response through the full of the 20Hz to 120Hz is very important so as to experience a movie sound track as to reflect the producer/sound engineer's expectations. And IMO, anything below 20Hz is gravy but again, in my opinion, a minimum expectation should be 20Hz -120Hz, @ +/- 3dB and regarding bass reproduction, one should also acquire the ability to reproduce a consistent 105dB transient minimum. Anything else above and beyond, is gravy.


One's system doesn't come alive until able to reproduce in the sub-20Hz range at a flat +/-3dB specification.


Regarding subwoofers, in the end, it's all about the LFE channel and the ability of the subwoofer system to accurately reproduce what the sound engineer intended.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by csgamer  /t/1471965/subwoofer-noob-400-budget-single-dual#post_23295016


So seems like most say bass extension is very important for movies, but multi subs is important too. Everybody seems to be going for the klipsch rw-12d in under $400 price range.


Is 20-25hz low extension really that important for movies? I do like action movies but I think dual 10" subs on both sides may sound good. 10" subs don't usually have good extension though.

well if you can afford 1 rw-12d now and get another down the road, the yes i definately would get that sub. 7000^3 is ALOT of room to pressurize, your going to need 2 subs bare minimum.
 

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Quote:
Yes.


In reality, having a flat, in my opinion, +/-3dB response through the full of the 20Hz to 120Hz is very important so as to experience a movie sound track as to reflect the producer/sound engineer's expectations. And IMO, anything below 20Hz is gravy but again, in my opinion, a minimum expectation should be 20Hz -120Hz, @ +/- 3dB and regarding bass reproduction, one should also acquire the ability to reproduce a consistent 105dB transient minimum. Anything else above and beyond, is gravy.


One's system doesn't come alive until able to reproduce in the sub-20Hz range at a flat +/-3dB specification.


Regarding subwoofers, in the end, it's all about the LFE channel and the ability of the subwoofer system to accurately reproduce what the sound engineer intended.
+1 What a difference it makes.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The one issue is the klipsch rw-12d is the size would probably limit me to one only. But something like a bic f12 I could get duals since the size is more manageable.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeeMan458  /t/1471965/subwoofer-noob-400-budget-single-dual#post_23296102


...



There's little difference in size between the two.


...


F12, D-22 x H-21 x W-19 nu


vs

12d, D-21 x H-19.s x W-14.6


And according to the above, the 12d is a smaller cabinet then the F12.


...

Lol I noticed that as well but was not going to say anything.
 

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You're looking at the packaging size for the F12. No way the F12 is 22x21x19. Ha.


Actual dimensions of the Bic F12:


17"H x 14 3/4"W x 17 1/4"D


If you're trying to decide between dual F12's and a single RW12-D, then it really depends on what you want.


Dual F12's will provide a more even response within your room. You'll be limited to probably about 27Hz of usable output though, which may be good for music, but not so much for movie usage. But, in that size room you will need to really crack the F12's to get nice volume levels, which in turn will increase distortion and give you sloppy-like bass.


The single RW12-D will get you down to around 23Hz usable (typically, but sometimes lower). You won't have as even a response between 30Hz and 120Hz as dual F12's though. With the RW12-D you may have slightly less distortion at the high volume level needed to fill that space, but it won't be all that much better. Probably wouldn't notice it.


So, it comes down to your wants. Do you want a more even response down to around 27Hz, or a less even response down to 23Hz?
 

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I have dual Klipsch RW12D's an am satisfied, I'd honestly buy bigger and badder subs to better compete with my RF-7 II system but even in a single family home my neighbors aren't happy as is.
I have no doubt 2 would be more than adequate in your small room as mine are in a much larger open concept living room and pump out good, fairly low bass. The only downside is that it's $200 above your budget, roughly.


If $400 was a hard cap for budget I'd probably just opt for a single, better sub. Then down the road you could always get a second. I just feel like capping yourself at $200 per puts you into a lower class of subwoofer.


Maybe buy 1 $300 RW12D and put the other $100 towards a bed?



PS: What is a bed doing there? It looks like a living or dining room.
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Done Deal DR  /t/1471965/subwoofer-noob-400-budget-single-dual#post_23296456


I have dual Klipsch RW12D's an am satisfied, I'd honestly buy bigger and badder subs to better compete with my RF-7 II system but even in a single family home my neighbors aren't happy as is.
I have no doubt 2 would be more than adequate in your small room as mine are in a much larger open concept living room and pump out good, fairly low bass. The only downside is that it's $200 above your budget, roughly.


If $400 was a hard cap for budget I'd probably just opt for a single, better sub. Then down the road you could always get a second. I just feel like capping yourself at $200 per puts you into a lower class of subwoofer.


Maybe buy 1 $300 RW12D and put the other $100 towards a bed?



PS: What is a bed doing there? It looks like a living or dining room.

This would be my logic as well. Having owned a single Bic F12 I can say it can be rather underwhelming. Especially once you hear a 25Hz note on someone else's sub. Ha.


A single RW12D would give you a good foundation for adding a second in the future.


Ha. Looks like he's just moved in. I lived on an air mattress in my living room for almost a month until I could afford a bed.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid  /t/1471965/subwoofer-noob-400-budget-single-dual#post_23296391


You're looking at the packaging size for the F12. No way the F12 is 22x21x19. Ha.


Actual dimensions of the Bic F12:


17"H x 14 3/4"W x 17 1/4"D

Looks like Amazon needs to be slapped around and straightened up on their measurement quotes.
 

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Yeah, when a product isn't being sold by Amazon I usually go to the manufacturer's website.
 

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I think dual JBL ES250s would do pretty well. I have the ES150 and I love it. I have only one in a larger room and it has no problems filling it. Either that or the klipsch.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Yeah still recently moved in. The bed in the living room was supposed to be temporary, but I found it to be so comfy, that I think it's staying, lol.


Placement seems like such an issue with a bigger sub, could only have one along the wall too. Not about the money, two of a big sub would be too big for my listening space.


Hmm, this will be a hard choice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I think I will be leaving towards smaller sub, not sure which yet, only because I keep hearing placement is so important for the sub. If I had a large listening space with multiple position options for a bigger sub, then I would lean that way. Hope my thinking process is correct.
 
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