[matthones]

All,


Need a sub for my living room. It's fairly large at 20'x20'x10', with openings to the kitchen/dining area and 2 hallways.


I have a Denon receiver and Klipsch R-28F floor speakers, with matching center (Best Buy black Friday purchase for half-off). No surrounds as of yet, will get those soon.


1. Your budget. $1k, give or take.

2. Size requirements/limits. Two choices.
1. Next to my front left floor speaker, I have a space of 18"x18", not more than 42" tall so doesn't go above the floor speaker.
2. Behind the couch I have a little cubby space of 15"D x 15"H x 45"W (roughly 4.5' directly behind main listening position)

3. Room dimensions.20'x20'x10', plus open areas that lead into the dining area and kitchen, and 2 hallways.


4. Primary uses. To fill the low frequency requirements in my HT system. My wife and I are no where near audiophiles so anything would be better than nothing, but I would like to feel the bass during movies.

5. Listening habits. Normal volume levels for TV, a little more than normal for movies. Never excessively loud unless listening to music when doing chores around the house.

6. Appearance requirements. Black to match current front speakers or I will custom paint to match the wall if I place it in the cubby behind the couch.

7. Timeframe. Not in a hurry but not having any bass from the floorspeakers is annoying.


Attached is the basic layout of my room.


Thanks in advance.

 

[Dr. H]

DIY

 

[shadyJ]

If you can DIY then you should. Commercial subwoofers can not compete in performance to the kin of stuff you can put together yourself. $1k will go a long way for a DIY sub, that would get you a very good 18" sub which would cost at least twice as much to buy ready-to-go. I would be looking at Stonehenge or Martysub designs in the DIY section here.

 

[NODES]

Take a look at the DIY Martycube or something similar.

 

[basshead81]

You can save yourself about 270.00-300.00 putting one of these together opposed to buying a comparable ID sub.

http://www.diysoundgroup.com/lab15-kit.html

Some claim DIY is a much better bang vs buck solution and I agree to a extent.
The biggest saving when going DIY is the option to use external rack amps. This lowers the cost significantly. A Behringer Inuke 3000dsp is 229.00 and will power a pair of SI-18 18" subs to about 75-80% of their potential. However not everybody wants a noisy pro amp(fan mod voids warranty) with flashing lights and then you have to deal with running speaker wire across the room, not a huge deal but it could be for some.

A bash 500watt plate amp runs 280-300 dollars and is mounted traditionally to the sub cab. The down fall is it will only power one sub, not a big deal if you only want one sub. Also plate amps give you the flexibility to run wireless which can be a big factor for folks putting subwoofers in nice living rooms and do not want to deal with wires.

Also note that if you were to build a Marty 18" sub and wanted to use a plate amp, you would be looking at a ICE amp or something from speaker power to feed that sub what it needs. That will add a significant cost to the DIY project because those amps are not cheap.

Moral of the story, yes DIY offers more performance vs the dollar but it is not what some lead folks to believe when you compare apples to apples. Comparing a budget pro amp passive setup to a active setup with a high end plate amp that several of the higher end Internet Direct subs utilize is apples to oranges.

 

[bgtighe23]

Currently, Reaction Audio has S-15s B-Stock for $499 shipped. Probably about the same cost/performance as a DIY and it's already ready to go (at a $499 DIY build).

I asked about the S-15s yesterday, this was the response:
"Hi!
The S15s are in very good condition with virtually no imperfections.
They do come with the same warranty and they will be shipped free.
Feel free to call at 1 888 315 3437 if you like if you have more questions.
Thanks!
Jeremy
Reaction Audio"

You can probably ask him if you could purchase two for $950 or $975. I think that is a great deal.

Website link: http://reaction-audio.myshopify.com/collections/outlet/products/s-15-500w-sealed-subwoofer

EDIT: Scratch that, I now realize the height is 20" on the sub

 

[biggsly5000]

If you have tools already that would help a lot. If you have to buy circular saw, router, drill, and sander you won't be saving much money. Of course the tools can be used for other projects as well, or more subwoofer projects If you know how to use them even better.

Time to research box, drivers, amps, and build it.

I'm doing my first project now and so far the only problems I have is getting straight cuts out of my cheap table saw. Luckily MDF is pretty cheap! Youtube is of course my teacher.

I am enjoying it all so far. If you like building stuff go for it! You will learn more about subwoofers than you knew existed and still only be scratching the surface of a lot of the members on here, but there is plenty of info here and if you can't find it someone will surely help you out.

1000.00$ will buy an awesome sub from many vendors and be delivered in a few days with a warranty. Always compromises, a little cheaper to build but no warranty and a lot more work or plug and play. If you have never had a sub try to listen to other peoples to see if you like what they have.

Good luck!

 

[bear123]

Your best ID options for that large space are:

PSA V1500
Hsu VTF15.2
RA Echo 15

These are all in the $950-$1050 price range and will give you the most home theater output for your money of any ID home theater subs you can buy. However, you will want to check the dimensions....width and height will be good but depth will be nowhere near 18"...probably more like 24-26". You have very large volume to fill, and I strongly suggest figuring out a way to make this size sub work. Hint....just put it there, you will get used to it.

Your other option as mentioned is DIY. The easy way here is to build a sealed flat pack, but I don't think sealed is the best option for your room. Also, DIY gives you the best performance for the dollar using the large 18" drivers...this makes an 18" cab width almost impossible..20" is the minimum width with an 18" driver. The other thing that makes DIY a great value is being able to build a large cab for very little money. Since size is a constraint, that rules out the big and cheap option. If you limit yourself to a 15" driver with a smaller cab to fit your dimensions, you won't really have a performance advantage over the ID subs at that point.

 

[BassThatHz]

For a room that large, I wouldn't go with anything less than dual UM-18 or SI-18's and an nu3000DSP.

http://stereointegrity.com/product/ht18-18-subwoofer/
http://www.parts-express.com/dayton-audio-um18-22-18-ultimax-dvc-subwoofer-2-ohms-per-coil--295-518

http://www.parts-express.com/behringer-nu3000dsp-inuke-3000-watt-power-amplifier-with-dsp--248-6706

If you could afford the nu6000DSP it would likely net slightly better results, and allow future expansion to 4 18's or a pair of premium HST-18's:
http://stereointegrity.com/product/hst18-18-subwoofer/

 

[Holiday121]

Check the classifieds some people asking a good price on plenty of subs. I actually have my Psa xv15 on there as well.

 

[blah450]

I would ditto Bass' recommendation. With that budget, dual 18s with the 3000DSP...flat packs if you want...and rock!

 

[matthones]

Thanks for all the help and recommendations. I guess based on feedback I might need to re-think my TV stand and maybe build some sub cabs to match a DIY TV/electronic stand so that everything matches.

To be honest, I was hoping that I could just build a small cab behind the couch with a couple of 12's and call it good. Looks like I may have been a little naive in my thinking.

 

[bgtighe23]

Thanks for all the help and recommendations. I guess based on feedback I might need to re-think my TV stand and maybe build some sub cabs to match a DIY TV/electronic stand so that everything matches.

To be honest, I was hoping that I could just build a small cab behind the couch with a couple of 12's and call it good. Looks like I may have been a little naive in my thinking.

Nearfield subs are nice. If they are up against the couch, the bass would really be tactile! If you built an enclosure long enough to put behind your couch, and somewhat the length of your couch, it could double as some type of table, if you need WAF approval. Just pick out a nice finish! A single 18" in a large cabinet will be wonderful as well. It would mean you couldn't use a flat pack though.

 

[doublewing11]

Some folks tend to rip on DIY for sound quality............

Last week listened to demo of 2 prototype 21" subs and 8-12" subs scattered around room for a leading speaker manufacturer in their R&D room. Room was acoustically designed by class leading acoustic design professional. With that said..........my four DIY 18" subs sounded as good or even better IMHO....................yup, low end was tuned with Datastat RS 20i using Dirac.

You can get soooooo much better sound quality and output by going DIY................just have to be wise selecting components!

 

[STL D]

OP:

You can pull off twin SI HT18s using Stone Henge boxes and knock the walls out of that room for around $1k. You won't find a store bought sub that can match that kind of power ANYWHERE for $1k.

Some folks tend to rip on DIY for sound quality............

Last week listened to demo of 2 prototype 21" subs and 8-12" subs scattered around room for a leading speaker manufacturer in their R&D room. Room was acoustically designed by class leading acoustic design professional. With that said..........my four DIY 18" subs sounded as good or even better IMHO....................yup, low end was tuned with Datastat RS 20i using Dirac.

You can get soooooo much better sound quality and output by going DIY................just have to be wise selecting components!

This... I laugh when people claim DIY sounds worse. A good low distortion sub is going to sound like any other one until you push them to their max. The big difference is, DIY 18s aren't going to reach their maximum before something like a Hsu or PSA will (not saying either are bad, they aren't).

If the box is built right, it is placed right, and the sub isn't pushed to it's limits, it is going to sound good period. That's why people constantly push the "headroom" factor around here.

 

[basshead81]

Some folks tend to rip on DIY for sound quality............

Last week listened to demo of 2 prototype 21" subs and 8-12" subs scattered around room for a leading speaker manufacturer in their R&D room. Room was acoustically designed by class leading acoustic design professional. With that said..........my four DIY 18" subs sounded as good or even better IMHO....................yup, low end was tuned with Datastat RS 20i using Dirac.

You can get soooooo much better sound quality and output by going DIY................just have to be wise selecting components!

I doubt your diy setup sounds better then a Seaton, JTR, or Funk Audio sub that utlilizes the absolute top of the line driver and amps with state of the art dsp front end....It might sound as good for less money invested no doubt. I will say that diy can sound worse if you do not know how to tune the subs response.

 

[matthones]

Those stone hedge look pretty easy to do, but I don't think I have the room though. Is it acceptable to put floor speakers in front of a sub box?

 

[basshead81]

Bass waves are omni directional. However placing the sub where it looks the best and or limiting your placement options can result in a poor response.

 

[matthones]

Thanks for all the input. I'm going to start a different thread in the DIY section with more pics of my living room to narrow down specific options (size, location). Thanks again.

 

[doublewing11]

I doubt your diy setup sounds better then a Seaton, JTR, or Funk Audio sub that utlilizes the absolute top of the line driver and amps with state of the art dsp front end....It might sound as good for less money invested no doubt. I will say that diy can sound worse if you do not know how to tune the subs response.

Boy do you have it wrong!

I owned a JTR S2...........................hands down, a pair of my DIY 18's placed in optimal location with MinDSP Open DRC-AN sounded and measured sooooooo much better! Make it quads..........even better!

There's more to just sticking drivers in a cabinet and calling it a day-- no matter who built sub. Room is biggest factor..............acoustic treatments, proper bass trapping to insure proper decay, along with applied EQ matters more than what sub you are using.

DIY can accomplish much better results than any commercial offering with a little patience....................