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After searching for weeks the threads regarding subwoofer selection, I have become only more confused. I need the help of those who have gone before me. This is my current setup. Mirage Omnisats front mains and rears. Mirage flagship CC OMS C-2 Nad 762 low end Sony subwoofer. I want to get the best subwoofer for this system I can get, bearing in mind someday I may upgrade my speakers to floorstanding. I do 60% HT and 40% Music My room is 15X20X12 opening up to a 12X10X12 dining room.


When I spoke to Curt at Velodyne he said I needed 2 18" Subwoofers

When I spoke to Mirage, this is the email they sent me:

Tom, subwoofer selection has a great deal to do with room size and speaker configuration. If the satellites are small then the subwoofer too needs to have a smaller size woofer for better blending. The BPS-400 is overkill for the application that you are running. You will have difficulty blending the dual 12’s with the 4-1/2†drivers of the Omnisats. The LF-150 is a good blend with your setup and will fill a medium sized room with ease.




I hope this helps




If you require any further information please feel free to contact me at any time


Alex Zaliauskas


Product Brand Manager- Mirage Loudspeakers



The other Subwoofer I have been entertaining is the M&K 350THX Ultra MkII


Ideas anyone given my confusion?

Thanks, Tom
 

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Well, with both rooms adjoined you have a lot of space to pressurrize.


If you want solid bass to 20 hz at the listening position at reference levels without distress, you will probably need two large subs.


Two large Velodynes would do the trick, 2 Servo-drive B-DEAP-32s will do the trick. Larger SVS may do it, too. A pair of Mirages won't do ( I owned them at one time). I don't know that overkill is typicaly possible. IT is about freq response and headroom. Acheiving both in a larger room requires hefty products and excellent placement and EQ.


If you are after reference bass, that is the way to go.
 

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Tom - I think the reps from Velodyne and Mirage are both saying something different - the former stressing the "large" combined room you have, and the later stressing integration between the sats and the sub.


I have spoken to Kurt from Velodyne several times myself. It is his opinion that most folks have rooms that open into other rooms and that you need a lot of cone area to move a lot of air. Large drivers are not necessarily slower than smaller drivers. Kurt loves his big 18" subwoofers! Kurt is a bass freak!:D


On the other hand, it sounds like the rep from Mirage was more interested in blending the sound from your satellites to the subwoofer. I believe the omnistats are something like +/- 3db at 70Hz so careful blending with a sub is important. I would guess that given the 4 1/2" driver of the omnistats the stated specs are probably a bit generous.
 

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It sounds like your setup is similar to mine. My HT is in a 16x25x9 family room, with a relatively large opening to the kitchen, which is about 12x12x8.


I'm using omni 60's R and L, an omni CC, and omnisats for surrounds, with a velodyne spl-1200 sub. My guess is that I would bave gotten similar recommendations to your's, yet for me, the spl-1200 is more than sufficient. It gets to about 24 Hz in my room, and easily moves enough air for me. I don't require high spl levels, though. I generally listen at about 5 - 10 dB below reference. My point is only that the answer to your question is entirely subjective, as it relates only to your particular preferences and listening habits.


I think the omnisats are great, and have wonder myself if I would be happy with them for the mains, but I will say that Mit07 is probably right about the specs. In my room they seem to roll off at something closer to 100 Hz.


Good luck,


rss
 

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First , Curt "Ain't Skeered" of bass.

My HT area is L-shaped with the vertical part of the L being 4,020 cubic feet HT & the horizontal open to a larger total area creating 8,280 cubic foot total.

ONE DD-18 is PLENTY....for me.
 

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if you go to small you'll regret it, go to big and you'll have plenty of headroom.
 

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Overkill would mean, for me, to have plenty power at about 20Hz. Still, subs that hit 30Hz with authority will make most people happy (not bass freaks, just normal people). If I were you I would buy two subs, one that hits about 35Hz (like the Mirage's) to run with your mains in order to run them as "large" in your receiver. The other (probably that Velo or SVS or something that really have power at around 20Hz) in the sub out of your receiver to cut it as low as possible (in the internal crossover).
 

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Man that line about sub integration from Mirage is baffeling to me.


SVS et al big subs run pretty flat reponses from 20+Hz all the way

to 120Hz if you let them run that high. There are no integration

issues.


I don't believe there can be "overkill" except if you bought way

bigger than you needed for a room, BUT


A) It would still work, perfectly, you just have to turn the volume knob

down


B) If you ever got a bigger room, you wouldn't have to upgrade.


If you were like a college kid in a small dorm room then, yeah

SVS 20-39PC+/18" Velodyne is probably overkill. (But you would be the envy of all your friends.) But in a big space with ajoining areas don't ever play it safe. :)


Dreamaster
 

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Without putting words in the Mirage's guys mouth. I think he may be also implying that the smallish satellites won't output at levels that would be comparable to the Mirage BPS400. So if you have the satellites cranked to the max they can handle, the Mirage BPS-400 won't even be breaking a sweat (overkill?). I have the BPS-400 and I have to substanially dial down the levels on the sub and pre/pro to match the levels on my surrounds.


I think the bigger concern is that your HT room opens up to your dining room. With a very powerful sub - expect some dishes to be broken or at the very least have a whole lot of rattling.
 

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I have a very similar room combo which is filled just fine by 1 Hsu VTF-3. I did adjust my speakers at reference levels but play it lower.


Choose a large bass you like, try it out - you can always get another. But start with one with good range.
 

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Why? As frequency decreases the volume displacement required to maintain a constant SPL goes through the roof. You have three choices... satisfy this displacement demand, suffer from significant roll-off in the low frequencies, or keep the volume knob turned way down.


It wouldn't be atypical to need a pair of high excursion 15" subwoofers just to keep pace with a single 25mm tweeter.
 

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Overkill is when you have more than you can/will use.


Go big and you won't regret it. You might start to regret the choice you had for mains, but you can always change them at a later date.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Bigus
Why? As frequency decreases the volume displacement required to maintain a constant SPL goes through the roof. You have three choices... satisfy this displacement demand, suffer from significant roll-off in the low frequencies, or keep the volume knob turned way down.


It wouldn't be atypical to need a pair of high excursion 15" subwoofers just to keep pace with a single 25mm tweeter.
Almost... The problem is that for a conventional speaker (non-horn loaded or panel) this rule applies for the entire frequency range. The same reason 20Hz output can require huge excursion from a 12", higher levels of 100Hz can require more excursion from a 6.5" woofer than it has available. The same applies to a 1" dome tweeter depending on how low it is crossed over.


So far as what is needed in terms of subwoofers is very much dependent on how low and loud in frequency you want or can afford to go. A great example is the Velodyne suggestion. First, from what I understand of your mains, they won't really support the mid-bass output to justify a pair of 18" Velodynes. Even if they could, it is interesting that a pair of 12" Velodynes would work similarly to the pair of 18", but give up a little on the low end. It is true that many "larger" subwoofers produced tend to only go lower, and not a whole lot louder. If you have a very large room though, you don't need, nor can you probably afford to go lower, you need louder. A much better solution will often be to use a pair of lesser subwoofers than one larger one. Of course there are certainly exceptions to the rule. SVS's PB2+ would be a good example of higher output from a single box rather than just trying to get to 12Hz since you have a bigger box and 2 drivers.


In my personal oppinion, the room mentioned here is not terribly large, and I would expect the seating distance not to be very large. A single Velodyne would not be my my first choice here, based on how the HGS series overload, but I have not played with the new DD series. The bit from Mirage about the concern with large woofers is a farce... It is simply a matter of how well behaved the subwoofer is. I would be searching for solid output to the low 20s, particularly around 25Hz. A healthy single subwoofer, or a pair of more moderate subwoofers should do nicely. IMO, it should utilize equivalent of a 12" driver or larger, while a few using 10s can certainly be acceptable.


Keep in mind those who have met me through the Chicagoland HT group had badged me "Mr. Headroom" :cool:
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Seaton
Keep in mind those who have met me through the Chicagoland HT group had badged me "Mr. Headroom" :cool:
Mark Headroom?
 
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