[Guyontheroad]


Wanted to create a thread to get guidance and also document the journey of building out the subwoofers for my outdoor home theater/patio. 

 

I'll post a birds eye view of the space, but in summary I have a 9 foot tall by 16 foot wide screen mounted to the side of the garage. In the eves of the garage, there are three definitive technology AW6650 speakers (handling FR, C, FL). The seating/listening area is 16 ft deep from the screen and 40ft wide. For rear surround, running 2 definitive technology AW5550. This is all powered by a Marantz 6007 receiver.

 

Built and concreted cedar box (8"x8"x3') 22ft from screen. The box contains two hdmi ports (in and out), power outlets, RCA inputs, and light switch. Also use the cedar box as a support for the projector mount. All the electronics are located in the garage, hdmi connections accomplished via hdmi over cat6.

 

The above was the 2013 project. Now for 2014, I'm focused on adding bass. In 2013, I used one old car sub I had laying around powered by an old receiver and a polk atrium sub powered by a russound x75. We enjoy listening to music and watching movies/live concerts on the setup.

 

Here is what I'm thinking for the subwoofers.

 

Upfront. Mounted in plantar boxes under the left and right corner of the screen, 1 10" 4ohm Diamond Audio M5 sub mounted in a sealed box. Subs powered by a Crown NXLS1500 (2x525 watts at 4ohms). Note, I have all the pieces for this portion.

 

In the rear, placed on the left and right about 3 ft behind the listening position, 1 15" subs in ported sonotubes. I'll be spending the next week or so researching Sonotube options.

 

So a total of 4 subs (2 10" and 2 15")

 

For now, would appreciate thoughts on the approach.

 

Will the 10" and 15" subs work together? They will be 23ft apart front to back, 14 ft apart upfront and 20ft apart in the back. 

 

Will I face phase challenges?

 

Would it be better to center the front subs under the screen or keep them wide? Same question for the rear subs?

 

Anything else I should know about using 10" and 15" subs?

 

[Starquester]

For an outdoor space, I'd be building horns. Like the "lilwrecker" or "gjallarhorn".

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1451519/lilmikes-lilwrecker


Budget?

 

[Guyontheroad]


My max is $1000

 

[Stumbo]

If it were me, I would build 4 micro wreckers. Outdoor bass requires a ton of output to compensate for the lack of room gain.

 

[Starquester]

The lilwrecker(and microwrecker I believe) can use the alpine type s 15, which can be had for $120 shipped. Paired with a horn design, it has to be one of the most capable setups around when it comes to an output/cost ratio.


The thing is though, the boxes cost more to make than the driver costs.


Does your $1000 budget include building materials, or just subwoofers/amps?


A pair of either horn designs can be powered with the crown amp you already have, but bridged for maximum output. I'd leave the 10's you already have out of the loop, focus just on a pair of horns since they will absolutely DESTROY the 10's in output.

 

[CZ Eddie]

Naa, you don't want a low subwoofer outside. You want a pro-sound woofer.

http://billfitzmaurice.net/T30T45.html

 

[Guyontheroad]


I was considering setting the cutoffs at different Hz. The Sealed 10's playing 70 hz and up and the "to be" subs playing 70 hz and below. 

 

My concern going with just the 15" subs in a horn is that I'll lose the punch. Granted I have a lot to learn/experience and am best served building a horn. I continue to appreciate the guidance.

 

Heads up, that last summer we had the cops show up a once or twice and that was just on one diamond 10" and the polk atrium sub. I've learned a ton about local noise ordinances and as long as we shut it down by 9pm all is good. 

 

So I've also been thinking that the 10" diamonds become the after hour subs.

 

[Guyontheroad]


My budget is somewhat flexible (like most others), I'm after the best experience possible. After the purchase of all my equipment to date (receiver, speakers, wires, outlets, etc) I'm easily $3K into a project to replace a $500 handheld projector connected to my laptop.

 

Where does this end, not sure at this point. But I'm sure enjoying the journey.

 

[ejh2854]



Quote:
Originally Posted by CZ Eddie  /t/1520434/subwoofers-for-outdoor-hometheater-patio#post_24426515


Naa, you don't want a low subwoofer outside. You want a pro-sound woofer.

http://billfitzmaurice.net/T30T45.html

+1 I've got a Titan 39 on my deck, and it easily paints my half-acre back yard with effortless bass ... for movies, the extra extension of the T30 or T45 would be killer.


.

 

[FOH]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyontheroad  /t/1520434/subwoofers-for-outdoor-hometheater-patio#post_24425597


Upfront. Mounted in plantar boxes under the left and right corner of the screen, 1 10" 4ohm Diamond Audio M5 sub mounted in a sealed box. Subs powered by a Crown NXLS1500 (2x525 watts at 4ohms). Note, I have all the pieces for this portion.


In the rear, placed on the left and right about 3 ft behind the listening position, 1 15" subs in ported sonotubes. I'll be spending the next week or so researching Sonotube options.


So a total of 4 subs (2 10" and 2 15")


For now, would appreciate thoughts on the approach.


Will the 10" and 15" subs work together? They will be 23ft apart front to back, 14 ft apart upfront and 20ft apart in the back. 


Will I face phase challenges?


Would it be better to center the front subs under the screen or keep them wide? Same question for the rear subs?

You're going to need measuring capability, REW w/miniDSP Umik, or OmniMic, either will serve you well.


Yeah, you'll face time alignment challenges, but outdoors, things are somewhat more clearly defined.


Typically, I'd recommend centered subs up front, with well controlled filtering between mains and subs. But, outdoor, due to the huge wavelengths involved, the bass travels so far and so strongly. That said, some quasi-nearfield subs blended properly, could provide both strong bass levels and keep levels in check. But, yeah, huge challenge .. and I wouldn't even recommend it typically.

 

[Guyontheroad]



Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH  /t/1520434/subwoofers-for-outdoor-hometheater-patio#post_24428497


Typically, I'd recommend centered subs up front, with well controlled filtering between mains and subs. But, outdoor, due to the huge wavelengths involved, the bass travels so far and so strongly. That said, some quasi-nearfield subs blended properly, could provide both strong bass levels and keep levels in check. But, yeah, huge challenge .. and I wouldn't even recommend it typically.

 

Your recommendation is that the subs should all be upfront, essentially creating a wall of sound? I've considered this as well, but my hypothesis is that I can play the subs at lower levels in rear and get relatively the same impact as playing all the subs from the front but at higher volume. 

 

Over the weekend I decided to buy to drivers and build two or three different enclosures and test configurations. Figure I could spend the next 4 months trying to pick the perfect setup but would still have doubts until I listened and measured myself.

 

[FOH]



Quote:
Originally Posted by FOH  /t/1520434/subwoofers-for-outdoor-hometheater-patio#post_24428497


You're going to need measuring capability, REW w/miniDSP Umik, or OmniMic, either will serve you well.


Yeah, you'll face time alignment challenges, but outdoors, things are somewhat more clearly defined.


Typically, I'd recommend centered subs up front, with well controlled filtering between mains and subs. But, outdoor, due to the huge wavelengths involved, the bass travels so far and so strongly. That said, some quasi-nearfield subs blended properly, could provide both strong bass levels and keep levels in check. But, yeah, huge challenge .. and I wouldn't even recommend it typically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyontheroad  /t/1520434/subwoofers-for-outdoor-hometheater-patio#post_24433350


Your recommendation is that the subs should all be upfront, essentially creating a wall of sound? I've considered this as well, but my hypothesis is that I can play the subs at lower levels in rear and get relatively the same impact as playing all the subs from the front but at higher volume. 


Over the weekend I decided to buy to drivers and build two or three different enclosures and test configurations. Figure I could spend the next 4 months trying to pick the perfect setup but would still have doubts until I listened and measured myself.

If you check again, you misunderstood what I posted.

 

[Guyontheroad]


Thanks for the clarification. 

 

Any initial thoughts on 15" vs 10" upfront?

 

[jpmst3]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyontheroad  /t/1520434/subwoofers-for-outdoor-hometheater-patio#post_24425696


My max is $1000

I have built three of Bill Fitzmaurice's horn subs for my outdoor area and love them.


I built the THT with a 15" driver and it was amazing, but after a reconfiguration it was too large. So, I ended up building two smaller AutoTubas loaded with the Dayton 10s and have them running off of a 250w plate amp and they rock the neighborhood way too well. I have them limited quite a bit or the neighbors that are 250 ft away get an ear full of bass.


A couple sheets of 1/2" ply and some spray on truck bed liner and you are good to go. I think I have about $500 in everything to include amp, wiring, drivers, plywood, adhesive, spray paint, etc. and they sound great.


The great thing about horns is that they are insanely efficient. They take a little longer to build, but you save a ton on amplification. I am probably using less than 150w for the pair and they get ridiculously loud and they are about 15-20 feet from the listening position.

 

[Guyontheroad]


JP

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3  /t/1520434/subwoofers-for-outdoor-hometheater-patio#post_24434062



So, I ended up building two smaller AutoTubas loaded with the Dayton 10s and have them running off of a 250w plate amp and they rock the neighborhood way too well. I have them limited quite a bit or the neighbors that are 250 ft away get an ear full of bass.


 

Do you use a DSP on the autotubas?

 

The AutoTubas seem to be the best option for me as I have about 20" between the ground and the bottom of the screen and then 16 feet of room from left to right. Thinking that I could center two of these under the screen with about 1.5 feet between for my lower center channel speaker.

 

[jpmst3]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Guyontheroad  /t/1520434/subwoofers-for-outdoor-hometheater-patio#post_24553918


JP

Do you use a DSP on the autotubas?


The AutoTubas seem to be the best option for me as I have about 20" between the ground and the bottom of the screen and then 16 feet of room from left to right. Thinking that I could center two of these under the screen with about 1.5 feet between for my lower center channel speaker.

No, my outdoor setup is pretty simple. No movies, just music via a plain old Sony receiver and a 250W plate amp for the pair. Sounds great though!