[Tom Monahan]

I use my BenQ for 3D only but the contrast/black level leave much to be desired. Would the Optoma UHD51 contrast be much of an upgrade over my BenQ? I'm not looking for JVC quality contrast. I prefer DLP for 3D. I would like to spend no more than around $1,700 but would prefer less.

Thanks,
Tom

 

[coderguy]

I use my BenQ for 3D only but the contrast/black level leave much to be desired. Would the Optoma UHD51 contrast be much of an upgrade over my BenQ? I'm not looking for JVC quality contrast. I prefer DLP for 3D. I would like to spend no more than around $1,700 but would prefer less.

Thanks,
Tom

It would be going sideways to slightly backwards, both have near the same native contrast, but the Benq has a DI.

There isn't a noticeable contrast improvement in DLP tech for this price range, you would have to look in the used (non-4k) market to find some decent DLP contrast.
Runco or Sharp xvz-30000, but those are 1080p projectors and only the Sharp has 3D of the two.

I would suggest a used JVC RS-46 or Epson refurb 5040ub + cheap DLP for 3D, that would keep you in your budget.
Get the Epson first, then find a refurb DLP later to add and do a dual-install.

You could also look at the Benq ht3550, but I would not expect much of an improvement, more of a sideways move, but Benq's DI algorithms may work better in their newer projectors (not sure).

You can get a used JVC RS-46 for incredible prices if you do not need a lot of brightness.
Use that for 2D (huge improvement compared to what your used to), and then get a secondary DLP for 3D.

You should be able to find a used RS-46 for $1200 or less (maybe even $800ish?)...
Or even better, the RS-49/4910 is the best bang for buck in the used market, as it supports 4k e-shift at least.

 

[Frank714]

I use my BenQ for 3D only but the contrast/black level leave much to be desired. Would the Optoma UHD51 contrast be much of an upgrade over my BenQ?

AFAIK no. To my knowledge the W7000 used the same Digital Micromirror Device (DMD) as most of the others of that time, i.e. the DarkChip3 0.65" DMD.


Already then, contrast/black level deficiencies were a source of criticism. Unfortunately, Texas Instruments has not used these years to improve this performance but instead focused on the development of smaller DMDs and ultimately E-shifting micromirrors to provide XPR 4K resolution.


Both miniaturization and XPR pixel shifting has led to yet another decrease in contrast / black level performance (evident with the Optoma UHD51) which a company like BenQ is trying to counteract by implementing a dynamic iris in its models HT3550 (W2700) and HT5550 (W5700).


Comparing contrast performance figures of the excellent entry level Vivitek H1188/1189 Full HD projector with those of the HT3550 and 5550 suggest that utilizing the dynamic iris they both achieve a slightly better contrast / black level performance than the classic DarkChip3, but you'd better check this out with your own eyes.


With my Optoma HD83(00) I'm in a similar position such as yourself. The projection lenses in both our projectors aren't something worth writing home about, so I'd be mostly looking forward to a sharper projection image and still have to see for myself whether the BenQ models fulfill my expectations.

 

[rekbones]

You might want to look at a Sony 45es. Contrast close to the higher end Epson's, LCOS panels for for higher pixel fill and 3D that's decent although not up to DLP standards.

 

[AV_Integrated]

LCoS is the king of contrast, but 3D may take a slight hit. If you aren't into the LCoS tech, just DLP, then the best way to go for a failing DLP projector may be the BenQ HT2050a, which will deliver similar contrast and solid quality and brightness for the money.

None of the 4K models will be an improvement when your focus is 1080p/3D content. Yes, the Epson 5040UB will be an improvement (LCD) as will the Sony 45 (LCoS) or about any JVC projector (LCoS)... But, those aren't DLP.

Tough call as you've kinda put yourself into a hole of quality. DLP simply hasn't shown significant improvements in contrast over the years, and arguably has moved backwards with their new DLP chips.

 

[zombie10k]

if I recall Tom has the JVC RS55 for 2D and BenQ W7000 for 3D.

There doesn't look to be a great upgrade path at that price range. The .47 DMD projectors that support 3D have similar native as the W7000 and several folks reported 3D motion issues with the .66 XPR models, BenQ HT9060 and LK990 in this instance.

I had the BenQ W7000 for years and several other .65 DC3 DMD projectors all primarily used for 3D. There were definitely variances with native and dynamic contrast between the different models using the same DMD. W7000 was on the lower end with ~800:1 native and a not so great DI. The worst was the Optoma HD91 at ~600:1 native. Some others were the Mitsubishi HC8000 (no lens shift and under 1000:1 native), Sim 2 Nero LED (nearly identical performance to HD91, appeared to be OEM clone in fancy wrapping).

favorite is the Sharp 30k 3D DLP with fully automated lens controls and tons of lens shift. ~2K:1 native and 6500:1 with a good DI + IR/RF options which I prefer over DLP Link. These are very hard to find today, it's unfortunate sharp left the projector market.

At least 3D is an option again on the newer generation XPR DLP's including the new Optoma P1 UST. Some of the manufacturer skipped it on the first gen releases and it looked like 3D DLP was doomed for a while.

 

[DunMunro]

I use my BenQ for 3D only but the contrast/black level leave much to be desired. Would the Optoma UHD51 contrast be much of an upgrade over my BenQ? I'm not looking for JVC quality contrast. I prefer DLP for 3D. I would like to spend no more than around $1,700 but would prefer less.

Thanks,
Tom

I'd take a look at the Optoma UHD51ALV:
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-UHD51ALV-review.htm
as per the review they note good 3D performance.

2ndly the BenQ TK800M:
https://www.passionhomecinema.fr/blog/index.php/28/05/2019/test-benq-tk800m-lavis-de-gregory/
and
https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews...ors/benq-tk800-ultra-hd-dlp-projector-review/
(the above review is for the TK800 but note the 3D performance).

The above units have relatively high output in 3D and that might help with perceived contrast.

 

[zombie10k]

The W7000 has good brightness in 3D, the main issue is the low native contrast. higher brightness with lower contrast won't really help.

The UHD51ALV uses an eight-segment RGBWRGBW color wheel for additional brightness over the UHD51A but will increase potential RBE.

I can't find native contrast info on the UHD51ALV but this review below shows the UHD51A with lower native than the W7000.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews.../optoma-uhd51a-ultra-hd-dlp-projector-review/

The UHD51A provides plenty of output for small to medium theaters or multi-use media rooms. After calibration in the lamp’s Eco mode, the peak white level is 88 nits with .1871 nits black and a contrast ratio of 470.1:1. Increasing the lamp power to Bright results in 132 nits peak, .2807 nits black, and 471.1:1 contrast. Turning on Dynamic Black increases contrast by more than double. I measured 147 nits peak with .1441 nits black and a contrast ratio of 1021.4:1.

The increased pixel density of the .47 DMD looks like it took a hit with native vs. the .65 1080P DMD's.

 

[DunMunro]

The W7000 has good brightness in 3D, the main issue is the low native contrast. higher brightness with lower contrast won't really help.

The UHD51ALV uses an eight-segment RGBWRGBW color wheel for additional brightness over the UHD51A but will increase potential RBE.

I can't find native contrast info on the UHD51ALV but this review below shows the UHD51A with lower native than the W7000.

https://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews.../optoma-uhd51a-ultra-hd-dlp-projector-review/

The UHD51A provides plenty of output for small to medium theaters or multi-use media rooms. After calibration in the lamp’s Eco mode, the peak white level is 88 nits with .1871 nits black and a contrast ratio of 470.1:1. Increasing the lamp power to Bright results in 132 nits peak, .2807 nits black, and 471.1:1 contrast. Turning on Dynamic Black increases contrast by more than double. I measured 147 nits peak with .1441 nits black and a contrast ratio of 1021.4:1.

The increased pixel density of the .47 DMD looks like it took a hit with native vs. the .65 1080P DMD's.

3D needs brightness for the contrast to be perceivable:

3D Performance. Like the UHD51A, the UHD51ALV is one of the few 4K UHD projectors that offers 3D at 1080p. As with any projector, 3D isn't at bright as any of the 2D modes, but as we found with the UHD51A, the brightness drops far less in 3D than with most projectors. In a side-by-side comparison with the UHD51A, the UHD51ALV is also significantly brighter for 3D, which is particularly welcome in rooms with ambient light. Both projectors support DLP-Link glasses only.

Performance for 3D is otherwise identical between the two projectors. I saw no crosstalk in my tests, just the typical hint of 3D-related motion artifacts, and a highly watchable picture even with default settings. The test units for both models also had the same problem of not always recognizing 3D input from Verizon FiOS, although they worked without problems with Blu-ray discs. Optoma says that it will have a fix available for both models shortly after this is posted. The update will download automatically to projectors already connected to the Internet to take advantage of Alexa or Google Assistant voice control
https://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-UHD51ALV-review.htm

.

 

[zombie10k]

3D needs brightness for the contrast to be perceivable:

I had the W7000 with ~800:1 stacked with the Sharp 30K with ~2K:1, W7000 was 'brighter' but 3D contrast looks much better with the Sharp 30K.

brighter with less native doesn't really help. Plus the potential of more RBE with the RGBWRGBW CW.

PC posts a lot of subjective info without much data. How much brightness drop vs other projectors? Lumens in 3D mode are easy to measure, contrast as well - where is the info.

3D Performance. Like the UHD51A, the UHD51ALV is one of the few 4K UHD projectors that offers 3D at 1080p. As with any projector, 3D isn't at bright as any of the 2D modes, but as we found with the UHD51A, the brightness drops far less in 3D than with most projectors. In a side-by-side comparison with the UHD51A, the UHD51ALV is also significantly brighter for 3D, which is particularly welcome in rooms with ambient light. Both projectors support DLP-Link glasses only.

 

[DunMunro]

I had the W7000 with ~800:1 stacked with the Sharp 30K with ~2K:1, W7000 was 'brighter' but 3D contrast looks much better with the Sharp 30K.

brighter with less native doesn't really help. Plus the potential of more RBE with the RGBWRGBW CW.

PC posts a lot of subjective info without much data. How much brightness drop vs other projectors? Lumens in 3D mode are easy to measure, contrast as well - where is the info.

3D Performance. Like the UHD51A, the UHD51ALV is one of the few 4K UHD projectors that offers 3D at 1080p. As with any projector, 3D isn't at bright as any of the 2D modes, but as we found with the UHD51A, the brightness drops far less in 3D than with most projectors. In a side-by-side comparison with the UHD51A, the UHD51ALV is also significantly brighter for 3D, which is particularly welcome in rooms with ambient light. Both projectors support DLP-Link glasses only.

Brighter can help. In any event here's what they had to say about RBE:

Rainbow artifacts. Although almost all DLP projectors can show rainbow artifacts, I didn't see any with UHD51ALV, even with a contrasty black-and-white clip. In comparison, I saw fewer with the UHD51A than with many DLP projectors, but still saw some. Even if you see these artifacts easily, you may not consider them an issue with the UHD51ALV. If you're unusually sensitive to them or don't know if you are, try to find a dealer that allows easy returns so you can test it out for yourself.

 

[zombie10k]

for other W7000 3D replacement options, I recently found this viewsonic laser projector with a .65 DC3 DMD. Native contrast is higher than the W7000 and the .47 DMD's being discussed.

With the laser set to max, 3D can be squinting through the glasses bright with good perceived contrast.

 

[Tom Monahan]

Thanks to all for the responses.

I hoped there would be better news as I haven't been following DLP projector releases for a few years.

My current BenQ W7000's throw requires me to use a HD conversion lens in front of it to fill my scope screen. It tends to soften the image some so the short throw Optoma UHD51A is appealing. Losing the lens and the Optima being able to do 4K if enticing. I use the CIH zoom method on a 40" x 96" scope screen. The front edge of the projector would be bout 11' 5" from the screen. Would this projector have enough zoom to zoom out for scope and zoom down for 16x9 given my screen size?

I currently use a JVC RS55 for 2D and would continue to use it most of the time. I hope to pick up a JVC RS2000 in the next year or so but that's uncertain at this time due to medical expenses.


zombie10k,

I can't believe your memory on my dated projection setup. I have a hard time remembering what I ate for dinner yesterday.

I need to research that Viewsonic projector. Thanks for letting me know about it.

Tom

 

[DunMunro]

Thanks to all for the responses.

I hoped there would be better news as I haven't been following DLP projector releases for a few years.

My current BenQ W7000's throw requires me to use a HD conversion lens in front of it to fill my scope screen. It tends to soften the image some so the short throw Optoma UHD51A is appealing. Losing the lens and the Optima being able to do 4K if enticing. I use the CIH zoom method on a 40" x 96" scope screen. The front edge of the projector would be bout 11' 5" from the screen. Would this projector have enough zoom to zoom out for scope and zoom down for 16x9 given my screen size?

I currently use a JVC RS55 for 2D and would continue to use it most of the time. I hope to pick up a JVC RS2000 in the next year or so but that's uncertain at this time due to medical expenses.


zombie10k,

I can't believe your memory on my dated projection setup. I have a hard time remembering what I ate for dinner yesterday.

I need to research that Viewsonic projector. Thanks for letting me know about it.

Tom

The UHD50/51A/AlV series have a 1.31-1 zoom which is almost sufficient for CIH. It will throw a 93in to 122in 2.39-1 image from 11ft5in, according to this:

https://www.projectorcentral.com/Optoma-UHD51A-projection-calculator-pro.htm

and a 40 x 96in 2.39-1 image at 11ft5in at 1.12x zoom. At 9ft8in, at full wide angle you get 40in x 96in and at full zoom you would get 41 x 72in.

 

[Tom Monahan]

Thanks for all of your calculations. Talk about going above and beyond to help out.

So close to working but unfortunately it won't. The story of my life.

 

[DunMunro]

Thanks for all of your calculations. Talk about going above and beyond to help out.

So close to working but unfortunately it won't. The story of my life.

Mine too...



There's a new crop of 4K with 3D, 1.6-1 zoom, Acer projectors coming along, and there's the BenQ HT5550 which seems like a drop in replacement for your W7000.

 

[zombie10k]

Thanks to all for the responses.

I hoped there would be better news as I haven't been following DLP projector releases for a few years.

My current BenQ W7000's throw requires me to use a HD conversion lens in front of it to fill my scope screen. It tends to soften the image some so the short throw Optoma UHD51A is appealing. Losing the lens and the Optima being able to do 4K if enticing. I use the CIH zoom method on a 40" x 96" scope screen. The front edge of the projector would be bout 11' 5" from the screen. Would this projector have enough zoom to zoom out for scope and zoom down for 16x9 given my screen size?

I currently use a JVC RS55 for 2D and would continue to use it most of the time. I hope to pick up a JVC RS2000 in the next year or so but that's uncertain at this time due to medical expenses.


zombie10k,

I can't believe your memory on my dated projection setup. I have a hard time remembering what I ate for dinner yesterday.

I need to research that Viewsonic projector. Thanks for letting me know about it.

Tom

The RS55 is a great projector, it was one of my favorites from a few years ago. currently I have the RS600 + dual Sharp 30K 3D DLP's.

The viewsonic laser has a 1.65:1 zoom which could work in your setup. I bought it for a backyard theater event and for ambient light viewing in a living room. It turns out it has bright 3D with respectable perceived contrast for a DLP projector.

https://www.projectorcentral.com/ViewSonic-LS800WU-projection-calculator-pro.htm

JVC significantly improved the 3D starting with the 2015+ models. We just watched Godzilla KOTM 3D the other night and the low APL fight scenes look amazing vs. the best of the 3D DLP's. I go back and forth between the JVC and the DLP's depending on which 3D movie we're watching.

 

[Frank714]

There's a new crop of 4K with 3D, 1.6-1 zoom, Acer projectors coming along, and there's the BenQ HT5550 which seems like a drop in replacement for your W7000.

Yes, Acer (soon) and Vivitek (end of this year, expect presentation at CES 2020) are coming with new DLP front projectors, featuring the larger 0.66" DMD (improved?) but now with additional 3D support.


Native contrast will be better than the latest DLP generation utilizing 0.47" DMDs, but I still wouldn't expect miracles, considering that the native contrast of the 0.66" DMD when first introduced in 2017 was less than the one of the DarkChip3 DMD featured in older Full HD projectors.

 

[zombie10k]

Yes, Acer (soon) and Vivitek (end of this year, expect presentation at CES 2020) are coming with new DLP front projectors, featuring the larger 0.66" DMD (improved?) but now with additional 3D support.

Native contrast will be better than the latest DLP generation utilizing 0.47" DMDs, but I still wouldn't expect miracles, considering that the native contrast of the 0.66" DMD when first introduced in 2017 was less than the one of the DarkChip3 DMD featured in older Full HD projectors.

When the .66 models are released, i'm wondering if they are going to have the same reported issues with 3D (softness and eye fatigue) on several of the current .66 BenQ Projectors, HT9060 and LK990.

XPR is off during 3D mode leaving the panels in the native 2716 x 1528 mode so it sounds like they are having scaling issues with 3D 1080P content. i'm curious if this is a BenQ issue or a TI issue?

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-d...eviews-comparison-thread-25.html#post58124516

So...yes, the 3D on the 9060 was a big disappointment. Again, it was soft and caused me fatigue, but worst of all was that the 3D motion was very difficult for me to tolerate altogether. In my opinion, it's among the worst 3D I've ever seen period and nowhere near the 3D I remember seeing with something like the W7000.

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/24-d...-lk990-jvc-x9500-comparison.html#post57931234

I dont know what the other BenQ's are like, but 3D on this projector is really soft. Depth and Crosstalk is perfect. Even contrast looks pretty OK through the glasses. But the image is also quite unsteady and unmistakably soft. I wonder if its the non native 1080p chips ?