AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 40 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,649 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It was this flick the one that first introduced me to progressive scan, inverse telecine, and PCs for DVD playback just a few short years ago; TFE was all the rage at shows back then and, until recently with the introduction of the super-bit version release, it managed to remain on top of the heap as some sort of "reference."


Truth be told, I've resented the introduction of super-bitted titles because everything that is now been done was written down for the DVD format from the onset, so no new technologies have been developed and introduced (the super-bit concept isn't a new DVD format technology; is been there all along), so I've seen this as nothing more than hype and an attempt to cash in on the very same concept they used some years ago: re-releasing the same titles over and over. That practice drove me nuts back when I collected laserdiscs...and it seems that it is been done all over again...and with a vengeance.


But having seen the frenzy this sort of thing has caused among the videophile community has caused me to reconsider my stance somewhat, so I decided to spend yet more money in order to obtain a movie title I already own just to have a solid frame of reference with which to judge the previous DVD transfer (and unless titles like Lawrence Of Arabia and Bridge Over The River Kwai are remastered in the same fashion, not one more cent will Columbia see from me by buying the other "super-bitted" titles that are about to be re-introduced).


Okay, so what do I think about the super-bitted TFE transfer?

Well...in my estimation is what it should have been from the beginning, but I freely concede it is an absolutely beautiful, stunning looking transfer...one that handily improves over the first DVD release not only in terms of video quality in ALL areas of importance (as far as scope ratioed films goes, this transfer has pushed the NTSC envelope to the max, so short of being Hi-Def I hardly see how can get any better!), but of sound as well; the DTS soundtrack sounds sensational...nay!...absolutely incredible (not quite to the degree SW:TPM track does, but close enough for government work :D )!

This DVD transfer compares so well against real film -indeed it is extremely film-like- that really is eerily spooky, I kid you not! :eek:


The super-bit version of The Fifth Element is one of the few TRUE video image references available extant, regardless of aspect ratio, even if a bit of that odious EE and some slight digital compression, MPEG2-originated artifacts are visible here and there (yes siree...they do). Highly recommended!


However, it is my opinion that Sony has indeed painted itself into a corner by doing the super-bit...well, bit because from now on they must match image quality with any future releases. I know I won't settle for less, particularly at their asked for prices. How about you?...


-THTS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,134 Posts
Sure we'll settle, if it's a movie that we like. Then a few months later we'll all buy the superbit version :D They know how to pull our strings.


Having said that, these new releases really are impressive and I hope they will start releasing 2 disc superbit sets day and date with their new releases. I'm not going to hold my breath though.


:eek: (sucking in air before holding breath face)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,354 Posts
Excellent opinion Frank!


I have two concerns:


1. how will this affect non superbit releases from Columbia ? Unless they try to maximise the video at least and offer a good dolby 5.1 ( without screwed up dialnorm), I'd be happy but still, keeping in my mind that question:"and if they announce a superbit edition in 6months?"


2. will other studios react and offer something similar, like Universal starting a "megabyte" collection :D or Warner a "pledging serie" (pledging.... The Pledge..... ok? :D ).

Because, jeez, there's a ****load of titles from other studios that I would VERY pleased to repurchase if they would be superbitted !!!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,354 Posts
Btw, I can already say that there are VERY strong chances GODZILLA and THE 6TH DAY will be superbitted also, the first because Columbia Europe will do it for the region 2 superbits and because THE 6TH DAY is already in dts in Japan and HK (region 2 and 3). I had a chance to listen to the region 2 of THE 6TH DAY and it was deliciously powerful, clearly beating the dolby digital.


As for other likely titles in superbit editions:

STARSHIP TROOPERS

HOLLOW MAN

LEGENDS OF THE FALL

LAST ACTION HERO

8MM
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,580 Posts
Hi Frank!


I'm surprised you liked the SB version of TFE so much. I guess Columbia has really done a good job. The new SB version of Desperado is the only SuperBit DVD I've seen. I was very impressed. I agree that a correctly remastered version of Lawrence of Arabia, with the right colors and no EE would make a fantastic SB DVD. I heard a rumor that Columbia/Sony plans on another re-release of LoA to coincide with the film's anniversary. Since SuperBit is devoid of extras, I wonder how they would handle this. I wonder if Columbia might release multi disc special editions that are defacto SuperBit DVD's. I can't imagine Columbia re-releasing LoA without any extras. That just seems bizarre to me. But I would still buy it.


Hi David,


I would only be interested in a SuperBit version of Starship Troopers. I would buy that without hesitation. I think some SB DVD's have gotten better reviews than others and I would definitely wait for the reviews before I buy. Unless it's a movie like Bram Stoker's Dracula, which I hope is going to look incredible, particularly if it's from a new transfer.


Congratulations on your 1000th post. ;)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,134 Posts
Quote:
Not only release the SB version at the same time just as you say...but at the same damned price!
Exactly, I just picked up two 2 disc DVD sets tonight for $20 each (the same price I paid for my superbit disc). It would be great. I'll be anxious to see the sales figures and the studio reaction.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
535 Posts
Frank ,


I'm very pleased to hear you liked it as much as I did.

Frankly, the differences with the older version are HUGE.

As I already said, I will think it twice now before buying their regular dvds, even if I have to wait for 6 months. That would be no problems to me.

I would like columbia to announce if they have a SB dvd in sight at the same time they release the regular title.

It would be fair, IMHO.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,649 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hi, Larry,


Yep...I wound up liking the SB TFE version a lot. Image wise it does indeed improve over the original release which, by the way, had nothing in the way of extras...but had the P&S version...both in a single layer, two sided disc. Had Columbia used a double layer, double sided disc and authored properly with high bit rate the SB affair would not have been necessary. :mad:

Anyway, since you and I have seen TFE on 35mm film many times before and are very familiar with the way it looks, I would say check the SB version and see whether you agree with my assessments or not. I welcome your input.


If indeed Columbia is to re-release LOA, they need to retime the color on the master source (I would hope they engage R. Harris' savvy services to do that next time around), author it at the highest bit rate possible -and eliminating if not all, at least most EE- then put the whole movie on one disc while all supplemental material put on another disc. The second disc needn't be a DS/DL affair, but the film's image quality must remain being top priority.

Add to that a DTS soundtrack mix and then I would be more than willing to freely give Columbia any praises they may deserve...as I've done in the past several times...before they started screwing up by releasing subpar images...then upsetting their own applecart by introducing the super-bit concept...


Cheers! :)


-THTS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
733 Posts
I am quite familiar with TFE (like everyone here) and after looking at some scenes from the SB version there is no question in my mind that it is the best DVD for PQ I have yet seen. It comes close to HD, in fact if I hadn't seen HD before and someone demoed this and claimed it was HD I would have believed him/her.


Cheers,


Grant
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,649 Posts
Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Grant,


I've reconsider it and will be buying one more SB title if and when comes out: Starship Troopers. Why? Because I want to see what super-bitting does for video images proceeding from movies with aspect ratios narrower than scope films, the latter having less vertical lines of rez, while the former having more (I think its AR comes out at around 1:8:1 or even less).

Starship Troopers was and still is a reference DVD transfer in its own right, but I am extremely intrigued by the idea.


You say the SB'd TFE looks more like HD -and I agree to a great extent- but just imagine what ST must look like when done in the same process.

If ST wind up looking like The Nutty Professor DVD (NTSC) did upscaled to 960p by a Faroudja DVP-5000 scaler via a Sony G90 CRT display when I saw it being demoed at the 2000 WCES in Las Vegas...I will be thrilled to pieces.


Of course, this doesn't mean I am wholeheartedly embracing Sony's latest stunt for I still maintain they could have been doing the SB authoring route all along. Yet in technical terms adding one more "reference" source signal to our HT system can't hurt...


-THTS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,580 Posts
Howdy Frank,


We are both very familiar with TFE, certainly. I will buy the SB version on your recommendation. TFE was one of my favorite demo discs. I think for scope movies, it is probably still the most impressive.


I agree that the whole SuperBit line is really just a gimmick, especially when you consider it's like a 2 disc SE but with the 2nd disc thrown away! But not any cheaper. :rolleyes:


There are some scenes in Starship Troopers that are so film-like, so detailed, it is stunning. I would love to view a SuperBit version. I wonder how much better it would be.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,354 Posts
Hi Larry


and thanks, did not noticed! (the thousand post)


on STARSHIP TROOPERS: you have to watch SCREAMERS and THE REPLACEMENT KILLERS: ST is still excellent for the eyes but these two discs are really stunning.


I read that THE PATRIOT has been taken out of the SB list for December. ??? :D too long for the SB ? no market ?


I agree the current edition is very film like, even with "film grain" . the dolby is fabulous. but a SB edition would improve.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
728 Posts
I'm new to the HT things and ordered my first DVDs from Columbia House (TFE, Bladerunner, Nightmare before Xmas, Pukp Fiction) before I learned about SB.


Just won an Ebay auction yesterday for SB trio: TFE, Desperado, and Crouching Tiger. TFE was cool in reg DVD, cant wait for the SB!


$47 incl shipping, couldn't pass it up.


BTW - I was at Wallmart the other day and was looking at the "Criterion" version of Armageddon... $39.95!


Is the "Criterion" any better than regular DVDs (talking PQ, not bonus features or extras like that)


thank you


Kurt

Trenton, NJ


Sanyo XW-15 LCD

Pannasonic RP56 DVD

Yamaha RXV-2092 Rec
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
271 Posts
Darnit you guys! Its because all of you keep buying them up I cant get my own copy of SB:TFE. This past week Ive been to 4 Frys and 2 best buys and every one is sold out. Anyone know of a specific store that has a large number in the fremont/san franciso area?
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,158 Posts
David,


Darn. I sold my Patriot DVD based on the SB announcement. At least I have the hidef analog version on W-VHS (but with the HBO "treatment")


Curt,


Criterion threads run all around here, but the Armageddon version isn't even anamorphic (like the non-Criterion).


Frank,


Can't wait for the SB version of Starship Troopers (hope & it may come true- Rachael had the best exposition on that planet for HD DVD). Maybe a MGM/UA version of SuperBit of The Wind and the Lion....


Tim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
833 Posts
David,


'The Patriot' being film-like? You have to be kidding. Its one of the EE heavy hitters from Columbia and has some scenes were the heavy film grain leads to blocking artefacts. The improvement with SB would be significant.


And i also disagree on 'Replacement Killers'. There is nothing special about that transfer at all, a typical Col/Tri transfer: Not very detailed, like most non-SB C/T discs and the typical amount of EE for a 2.35:1 C/T transfer (not as heavy as Patriot, though). A superbit version would solve both and i can't wait for it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,354 Posts
hey!


Notice I talked about the film grain of Patriot, which, in theaters, was rather.... heavy. I think CTH could clean it up and improve the shot on a superbit edition, which, it seems, has been cancelled for now ( sorry Rudolph !!)

as for RK, maybe i should play it again but I DEFINITELY don't have the video set up you have !! argh ! envy, a sin.


there are so many WARNER, PARAMOUNT, UNIVERSAL, MGM titles that could do so well in superbit, I REALLY want to see the reactions of studios but if those superbits are sold so well it seems, maybe there's hope for a "reaction" on their part.


And I want BANDS OF BROTHERS in DTS asap !!! ( but tv credits say dolby surround..... if New Line did a special dts es track for Rush Hour 2, Steven can arrange us a nice dts too ! :) )
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,649 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Tim,


Yeah...a super-bitted "The Wind And The Lion" would be just peachy! :) Perhaps if we keep plugging long enough MGM can hear our plight for its release on DVD. Here's to hoping!...


Dave,


Digital satellite transmissions in the USA must use the Dolby Digital bitstream protocol, thus you see it during the credits roll in the broadcasts of Band Of Brothers on HBO.

However, there shouldn't be any reason why not include a DTS track if BOB (boy, do I like to do these things! :D ) is ever released on DVD. Cheers! :)


-THTS
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,354 Posts
Yo Frank my friend!


BOB: i like it too! after TPM SRP LOTR RH LOTM , we have now BOB ( not to confound with Boobs of Barbara , another movie :D ggggggg
http://images.animfactory.com/animat...ing_md_wht.gif ) ("sticky bombs", remember ? :) )


yeah, true on the broadcast dolby. I feel reassured now.


I saw the episode where, in 1944, they were caught by surprise by Germans in Holland ( the A bridge too far /Anaheim British fiasco I would say ). impressive, the means used for that episode are certainly up to what was done for SPR. Incredible.


cheers


Dave
 
1 - 20 of 40 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top