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Just a note to advise all that this new DVD is not dubbed in English. Only subtitles. I am returning it.:mad:
 

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I refuse to watch Crouching Tiger with the English Dubbing. For me, it would ruin the experience and take away from the validity of the film.


I am glad that I waited and picked up the Superbit version yesterday. I was very pleased with the Audio and PQ.
 

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Babula:


Why is that bad? It is shown in its original theatrical language, and can be subtitled to english (as it was presented in theatres in North America). This is how it was seen in theatres, and it looks amazing!
 

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Superbit DVDs are targeted at film fans. Making it a dubbed version would be akin to making it pan and scan. In other words, it wouldn't sell.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by William
Superbit = 1 DD and 1 DTS track only with no extras. So all available space goes to video.:)
Is the DTS track full-bit? Or just the usual compromised half-bit rate?
 

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And releasing a film (like Crouching Tiger) in a dubbed version is sacriledge!!!


I can CONFIRM that (like joekun states) a P&S version or a DUBBED version of an extremely popular film like Crouching Tiger- does not sell (RE: Warner's recent Willy Wonka P&S only version).


But- the Superbits line has a sole intent of MAXIMIZING the Home Theater experience of the original intent of the film. I think that doing a DUBBED version only undermines the original intent of the film since it was not the appropriate audio master- rather a doctored master.


So if you return it- it's your loss. You really are missing a beautiful film. Why not appreciate it in its original language?


Babula- with your reasoning- would you justify DUBBING The Italian only dialogue sequences in The Godfather Part II?


The purpose of maintaining the original language in films like the GF or CTHD is to preserve the culture of the characters and the story. It adds authenticity and a certain richness to the film.


Or- would you justify DUBBING Dances with Wolves??? The very nature of using authentic Lakota Sioux dialogue shows a man (costner) culturally isolated from his society and forces him to learn the language and customs of foreign people. It allowed a sense of tolerance and societal perspective.


So there are THOUSANDS of reasons of maintaining the original language and not butchering the films with a horrid dub.
 

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99% of the time I do not like dubbed movies. However, I must admit that I liked this english dubbed version and thought that it was done quite well. IMO it was not real obvious that it was dubbed. I also have the SB version of CTHD and enjoy watching it as well.
 

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Quote:
99% of the time I do not like dubbed movies. However, I must admit that I liked this english dubbed version and thought that it was done quite well. IMO it was not real obvious that it was dubbed. I also have the SB version of CTHD and enjoy watching it as well.
I have to disagree. A while back there were a lot of people around talking about how they didn't get the big deal about CTHD. They just thought it was silly and blah blah blah. I asked every one of those people that I met, or poster that I read if they watched it dubbed or subtitled. Every last one of them had watched the dub. Does that mean that the dub ruins the movie, or that people who are less likely to like the movie watch the dub? I would say it's mostly the former, but a little of the latter.


I've never seen an English dub I liked, and I've only seen two I could tolderate (Kiki's Delivery Service and Princess Mononoke). Ang Lee says it all about dubs in the commentary on the original release of CTHD though, check it out if you can.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by joekun
I have to disagree. A while back there were a lot of people around talking about how they didn't get the big deal about CTHD. They just thought it was silly and blah blah blah. I asked every one of those people that I met, or poster that I read if they watched it dubbed or subtitled. Every last one of them had watched the dub. Does that mean that the dub ruins the movie, or that people who are less likely to like the movie watch the dub? I would say it's mostly the former, but a little of the latter.


I've never seen an English dub I liked, and I've only seen two I could tolderate (Kiki's Delivery Service and Princess Mononoke). Ang Lee says it all about dubs in the commentary on the original release of CTHD though, check it out if you can.
I agree, I hate the English dub of this movie, but OTOH it's not as bad as many out there.


However... Actually the movie did not do that well in some parts of Asia. Many people there (who saw it in the original Mandarin) thought it was lame, as did my mother (who also speaks Mandarin as her first language). Remember, these types of movies are not unusual in Asia and CTHD was not some sort of great revelation as it was here in North America.


Plus, some of the accents of the actors (esp. Michelle Yeoh) were not great, and not appropriate for the characters. This so-called original language track probably rubbed many of the Asian crowd the wrong way. (It reminds me of Helena Bonham Carter's American accent in Fight Club, but much more poorly done.) I too found the accents in Mandarin quite irritating, and I'm not even a great speaker myself. Sometimes I think that CTHD is overrated by North Americans. However, overall I did like the movie.
 

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Well guys,


I have to say first that I am a purist.


1. OAR or BUST!

2. If it was B&W...it should be in B&W

3. If it was MONO...it should be MONO.


But...I really don't like "reading" a movie. If I want to read...I will pick up a book.


English dubbed movies like THE KILLER or HARD BOILED do not lose any of their finer points by having the a language that we Americans understand.


If the dubbing is done right then all that is happening is that instead of reading the English words on the screen...the actors are speaking them (or should I say substitute actors)


I too bought this DVD without realising that it did not contain an English dub. I am stuck with it unfortunately and will probably watch it once...at $20 that is an expensive viewing for me.


Lee
 

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I have heard a number of viewpoints about the Mandarin (as most of the actors speak Cantonese natively). The reaction of Chinese people seemed pretty mixed in that regard, and is a point well taken. From the commentary track on the disc, it sounded like the movie still did well in Taiwan though.

Quote:
Remember, these types of movies are not unusual in Asia and CTHD was not some sort of great revelation as it was here in North America.
I would contend that CTHD is an unusual movie for the way it handled its subject matter. I have heard this many times, and my challenge remains open: Please, recommend a martial arts movie that can beat CTHD in the story department. I will watch that movie and be glad to have found a better film!


The vast majority of kung fu movies I've seen just don't have stories that make them believable as CTHD does. I know I will catch a lot of flak for saying that CTHD is believable, but to me, it represents how warriors such as Shu Lien and Li Mu Bai would act if such people had existed. My favorite kung fu movies by far are "Iron Monkey" and "Wing Chun". Neither of them really succeed with great drama and stories, but are fun nonetheless. CTHD succeeds as a believable drama/kung fu film.


Just to let you know, I have seen some of the "Once Upon a Time in China" series (specifically 1, 2, and "and America"), and while I like them and will be buying the HKL discs, I don't think they belong anywhere near the top of the Kung Fu movie list. So what are you waiting for, make a recommendation already, I love a good kung fu movie! :D
 

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Quote:
I have to say first that I am a purist.
Quote:
English dubbed movies like THE KILLER or HARD BOILED do not lose any of their finer points by having the a language that we Americans understand.
Ah, but they do lose a lot. In general, the words spoken by the actors are altered to make them fit with the number of syllables spoken in the original dialect, the vast majority of the time without the involvement of the director. So, while translation is always subjective, dubs are always limited to their length much more so than subtitles (though they too need to be shortened to a readable length). Anyone who wants to maintain the director's vision, and would object to the alteration of that vision would by that very definition not want a dub.


As a good example, in the dubbed version of "The Killer", "John" and the cop (can't remember his name off hand, maybe Inspector Li?) call each other "Dumbo" and "Mickey Mouse" or some such nonsense. In the Criterion subtitled version (which was approved by John Woo) they call each other "Shrimp-head" and "numb-nuts". Quite a difference!


In addition, the voice actors used are often not very good in America. When the Japanese dub something, for example, they have a pool of very good talent that is used. Dubbing would be much less objectionable if it was done by people who were better at it, which is why I stated that I could stand the dubs of "Kiki's Delivery Service" and "Princess Mononoke" even though I don't like them and would never purchase a product that didn't offer the original language.
 

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I enjoyed Japanese anime and dramas so much that I've spent the last five years learning Japanese. I'm still far from perfect, but now I can start to appreciate Japanese films in their original language. Language is culture, and there's so much information that's darn near impossible to translate in synchronized dubs or short subtitles. I feel very fortunate to be able to understand some of the original nuances and feelings in Japanese dialogue.


Dubs? No way!


Subtitles? They're for weenies! :p


Too bad I don't understand Mandarin (yet...?)
 

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Quote:
I have to say first that I am a purist.
Yeah, right :eek:. Mono tracks should be mono, but to hell with anything not spoken "American". I'm sure people in other parts of the world laugh when American's claim it's too hard to read English while foreign speakers play their parts for the screen.


Maybe The Longest Day should be taken back also. Who wants to hear all those dang Frenchies and Germs? They should be speaking English so I don't have to read.


Another example is Das Boot. It can not be watched with dubbing. IT DOES NOT WORK.
 

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Quote:
I have heard a number of viewpoints about the Mandarin (as most of the actors speak Cantonese natively). The reaction of Chinese people seemed pretty mixed in that regard, and is a point well taken. From the commentary track on the disc, it sounded like the movie still did well in Taiwan though.
If I remember correctly, the male supporting actor is a Taiwanese rock star. Thus, he spoke with a Taiwanese accent, despite supposedly being from Xinjiang. By the way, it would be interesting to know when this movie was supposed to have taken place, since after a certain time Xinjiang became very Caucasian, and Mandarin there is often spoken with a Persian accent (if you can imagine that).

Quote:
Another example is Das Boot. It can not be watched with dubbing. IT DOES NOT WORK.
While I prefer the German track with subtitles, I actually like the English track, too.


I guess the gist of it is that we can all have our preferences, and there isn't anything wrong with that. If you prefer dubs, so be it. If you don't then that's OK too. Fortunately, with DVD we have a choice. Even the original poster has a choice, since he can choose to watch the non-superbit disc, with actually plays quite well on my Panasonic RP91. (The image is superior on that machine compared to my Apex AD-600A and my old RCA 5200P.)
 

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WARNING: SPOILER FOR THOSE WHO HAVE NOT SEEN DAS BOOT
Quote:
...we can all have our preferences...
I agree we can all have our own preferences. But, some preferences RUIN the impact of a good film. Das Boot is such a film. Here is the reason:


For 124 minutes (on my non-precise clock) you have been watching a German film. They are Germans, and they are speaking German, as they obviously should. Americans and Britons will remember that they were the enemy. But slowly, after 2 hours, you eventually become a part of their story. In a strange way you become a by-stander on that boat, much like the war correspondent, Lieutenant Werner. And, you even begin to feel a kindred spirit for these characters. They could even be your brothers.


But then, at 125 minutes, the American and British viewer suddenly realize something. You are of the people in the water. The English speaking people burning, drowning, and screaming, in English, "HELP ME!". The hair on your arms stands up. And, at that moment you realize, this is a film made in Germany, by Germans, that speaks about humanity. That is the power of cinema.


You never experience that impact when you watch the film dubbed, because it is all English. It does not work.
 

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So some of you guys are saying that a movie cannot possibly be enjoyed unless it is in the un-dubbed version. I have to strongly disagree with that blanket statement which seems to be more emotional than logical. I watch my movies on DVD and LD many times as I suspect many here do. In all cases where there is an english dub I will watch the original language version first and then the english dub. In many cases it does not lessen the enjoyment of the movie to me. I may prefer the original language version to the dub but don't tell me that I can't enjoy the dubbed version. End of rant.
 

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I am a typical American in that I only understand English (my wife says not even that sometimes). For a long time I avoided subtitled movies because I don't enjoy reading at the movies. Of the few such screenings I did attend, the one noteable exception was the great physical comedy of Gerard Depardieu in "Get Out Your Handkerchiefs" (on 2nd thought maybe that one was so good because of the 6 pack I snuck into the theater).

I saw Crouching Tiger in the theatrical format of Chinese with English subs and enjoyed it very much. Then, when I picked up the first DVD release it was a revelation to have the basic meaning of the dialogue spoon fed to me with the English dub. I could get whole new levels of nuance visually with the freedom to concentrate on the action and facial expressions instead of text. On the other hand I may now watch the original DVD release again in Chinese with English subtitles. I think that immersion in the sound of the Chinese may have value even if I don't literally understand it. I'm a little surprised that this thread has gone off into the "purists" vs. the "dubbers". I like having both. What I really wanted to know when clicking on this thread was, is the Superbit PQ better? Is the wonderful music of the soundtrack better?


Mark Haskins
 
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