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Discussion Starter #141 (Edited)
Here is a guts comparison of the two.

The size-comparison of the initial induction cancellation is MASSIVE.
It needs to be large to prevent the inductor from being over-saturated with surge energy. ;)
 

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Discussion Starter #142 (Edited)
Here is a size-comparison of ALL the stages of an IsoBar, vs only stage 1 of the SurgeX ASM...


Conventional surge protectors all use the same basic components:

1) MOV's and/or diodes and/or gas tubes (rarely all three, usually just one.)

2) some small normal-mode and common-mode inductors, maybe some ferrite chokes.
[Often wound too tightly, where the high voltage can ark/jump the enamel.]

That's basically it.

Any fuses or breakers it might have, are mostly just there to protect the user from themselves.

If you are lucky, you might find over/under voltage cutoff relays / circuitry downstream from the surge suppression.
 

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Wow....pretty neat info!
 

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^^^ I agree with everything @BassThatHz has stated above.

I've been swimming in the Surge space for 25+ years protecting my and other's AV equipment. Today I use SurgeX products mostly with some Furman units. For SurgeX, I usually opt for SX-1115-RT or SX-1120-RT. Again, the RT model is important b/c it has all the tech embedded: COVUS, ICE, Filtering etc.. whereas the very similar model SX-1115 or SX-1115-R does NOT have all those goodies!

I also use the the SurgeX SA-20 on my new fridge and SA-82 on since it's off somewhere else in the house.

I also have Furman IT-References in the space. FWIW, I have used other Furman power products in the past and like their "series-multi-stage-protection" units -> Series Multi-Stage Protection | Furman Power

These are using "series-mode surge protection" which is patented with a few well-known companies licensing it for production in their devices:
-> Home - Zero Surge
-> Surge Protectors, UPS Systems and Voltage Regulators | Brick Wall
-> ESP and SurgeX Power Protection Technology Overview

Updated 12 Jan 21: WRT Furman's SMP tech, as @IHaveSpoken corrected me in another posting, I am updating this post b/c I refer to it frequently. Furman developed it's own "surge protection design" which is marketed as "SMP" Technically, this is not the same as the licensed tech in those I listed above for reference. I should not have listed them together which might have confused some readers. So now it's listed separately.

-> Series Multi-Stage Protection | Furman Power

I continue using Furman Power Products in my home such as their IT Reference on AV equipment and various "Elite 20A" voltage regulators upstream from critical power items. Both Furman and SurgeX product top-of-the-line power products which far exceed the simple MOV tech across L-N-G found in many of today's inexpensive wall-warts and plastic power-surge "strips."

Again, I highly suggest checking ebay for those models and consider buying only from reputable sellers. The only thing to check is you do need the green terminal unit to be in place b/c a jumper is needed to enable power-on. I helped a guy a few months back who brought one off eBay which was sold "as-is" for like $25. There wasn't anything wrong with it, it just needed the $3.00 part (Amazon) and the jumper. he was going to toss it - he got a GREAT deal.

When I said I banned MOVs from my home, I was not kidding. I do not allow MOV-based "wall-warts" or MOV-based "power surge strips" in my home. Today, I only buy MOV-free , as in no "surge projections" high quality metal power strips when I need multiple ganged power outlets. These units are getting harder to find even in the big-box building supply stores! However as @BassThatHz also stated elsewhere, many manufacturers of electronics are embedding MOVs into their products as a last line of protection. Many times the MOVs are surrounded with thick, heat shrink tubing to contain them on failure. For those uses, we just have to be aware, MOVs are present and as long as I have good surge protections upstream, the embedded MOVs should be spared many hits down the road.

Stay safe, stay alive. Peace.
 

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Since everything of is running off the same circuit, 2 different recepticals (4 outlets total).....On one receptical I have my projector and Monster HTS 2600 for all 7 devices (modem, router, apple tv, bluray player, prepro, 2 class d amps). The other receptical has my 2 subs on other outlet directly to the wall.

I'm not sure which way I should go about it but I guess I could do SA-15 or SA-20 or possibly QC series for the subs only outlet. And either another SA-20 to put the monster 2600 on it and cyberpower ups for projector unless I go with XR315 to replace the Monster. Both recepticals are 6 feet apart from either other so there are many ways I could do this with different options.
 

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^^^^ Yes, there's one more option.

Use an inline SurgeX SX-15-RT or SX-20-RT (depending on what the circuit is rated) to cover this circuit fully coming outta your main electrical panel. Gut says you could buy below (if you have a 15A circuit), hire a licensed electrician to install it for a reasonable amount and protect both outlets easily. If you have 20A circuit, then you will need the SX-20-RT model. Peace.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Surgex-SX1...257162?hash=item46a1341a8a:g:CHYAAOSwOjddNLC~
 

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^^^^ Yes, there's one more option.

Use an inline SurgeX SX-15-RT or SX-20-RT (depending on what the circuit is rated) to cover this circuit fully coming outta your main electrical panel. Gut says you could buy below (if you have a 15A circuit), hire a licensed electrician to install it for a reasonable amount and protect both outlets easily. If you have 20A circuit, then you will need the SX-20-RT model. Peace.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Surgex-SX1...257162?hash=item46a1341a8a:g:CHYAAOSwOjddNLC~
I have dedicated 20 amp circuits. If I buy a Sx20RT, can I still plug in my 15amp plugs or does it only take the special 20amp plugs?
 

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^^^^

If you have dedicated 20AMP circuits in your room, then you need to use the 20AMP wired-in version.

The SX-20 NE/RT is a "branch circuit" unit which means it has to be installed by a licensed electrician. They would probably connect it coming outta your main panel like this: 20AMP Breaker in your main panel --> SX-20NE/RT --> 20A circuit in you room. They protect every outlet downstream of the unit.

SX-20 NE-RT -> https://www.ametekesp.com/surgex/branch-circuit/branch-circuit-120-208v

A 120V/15AMP male power plug will mate with a 120V/20AMP female outlet but not vice versa.

The SX-20 NE/RT --> it's made to be wired into the circuit. It has no power outlets. You have to keep their model #'s straight - they like to make'm sound similar.

If you want a standalone unit with plugs into your room's outlets, then the SX-1120-RT or SX-1115-RT are the 1U units with built in multiple female plugs with all the features. Check out the pictures on their site, it helps to make sense of the model #'s

What works for me is watching ebay the specific model I want. I only buy from reputable sellers and people with 100% feedback. YMMV. The link earlier was for a wired-in SX-15 NE/RT (15 AMP) so you cannot use that with your 20 AMP circuits.

Peace. I hope this helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #149
Since everything of is running off the same circuit, 2 different recepticals (4 outlets total).....On one receptical I have my projector and Monster HTS 2600 for all 7 devices (modem, router, apple tv, bluray player, prepro, 2 class d amps). The other receptical has my 2 subs on other outlet directly to the wall.

I'm not sure which way I should go about it but I guess I could do SA-15 or SA-20 or possibly QC series for the subs only outlet. And either another SA-20 to put the monster 2600 on it and cyberpower ups for projector unless I go with XR315 to replace the Monster. Both recepticals are 6 feet apart from either other so there are many ways I could do this with different options.
Those ebay SX's are so cheap that you could literally get 3 or 4 of them, one for the living room system, one for the HT rack and another for the subwoofer. They last literally forever so i doubt used would be a huge deal, paypal has your back anyway.

Just keep in mind that buying used units voids your life-time warranty.

Then just get a nice puresine UPS, and you are golden.

Put the 2600 on your bedroom system or fridge, or just sell it.

Don't use an SA for a subwoofer, it doesn't have OV protection, they are surge-only.

MOV's are horrible, they contaminate both the ground and the neutral with thousands of volt-amps, and have no swell protection. Which is disastrous for AV and computer networks in particular (and every other modern-day electronic device).
Whereas the SurgeX doesn't contaminate the ground or neutral supposedly.

140-150V rms will make every MOV in your house explode, which could easily happen if a 10,000V line touches a 120V line (which happens often in ice storms, car crashes, and high-wind areas).

MOV's were cool in the 60's, but not today. We have better technology today.

Due to flashover, the IEEE states that 6kV is the maximum reasonable surge voltage for a 120V grid.
Higher values will flashover to neutral or ground (with or without the presence of a whole-house MOV unit).

The SurgeX ASM goes to (at least) 6kV, it should be enough to protect anything except for a direct lightning strike (and even then, it will still do whatever it can do to protect the load.)
By the time a SurgeX caves in, that almost definitely means every other house on your street got taken out.

For everything else there is house insurance.
 

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^^^^

If you have dedicated 20AMP circuits in your room, then you need to use the 20AMP wired-in version.

The SX-20 NE/RT is a "branch circuit" unit which means it has to be installed by a licensed electrician. They would probably connect it coming outta your main panel like this: 20AMP Breaker in your main panel --> SX-20NE/RT --> 20A circuit in you room. They protect every outlet downstream of the unit.

SX-20 NE-RT -> https://www.ametekesp.com/surgex/branch-circuit/branch-circuit-120-208v

A 120V/15AMP male power plug will mate with a 120V/20AMP female outlet but not vice versa.

The SX-20 NE/RT --> it's made to be wired into the circuit. It has no power outlets. You have to keep their model #'s straight - they like to make'm sound similar.

If you want a standalone unit with plugs into your room's outlets, then the SX-1120-RT or SX-1115-RT are the 1U units with built in multiple female plugs with all the features. Check out the pictures on their site, it helps to make sense of the model #'s

What works for me is watching ebay the specific model I want. I only buy from reputable sellers and people with 100% feedback. YMMV. The link earlier was for a wired-in SX-15 NE/RT (15 AMP) so you cannot use that with your 20 AMP circuits.

Peace. I hope this helps.
Thank you!
 

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Just ordered XR315 to replace the Monster HTS2600 which will go in another room. Pricey compared to others but I want best protection I can get and this unit I will keep forever til it dies. Also I have open glass shelf so looks was another reason and having feet vs going with flat rack mount option such as SX 1115rt.

I do plan on getting the cyber power pure sine wave ups as well.....is it safe to put that on the xr315 or just run it directly to the wall outlet?

Also are all SX models the same features? Looking for something for subs only....Don't need 8 outlets such as sx1115rt but would something such as SX DS 154 work for subs or would I be better off getting something different from ESP line? There are so many models that its easy to get lost with all the features.
 

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Just ordered XR315 to replace the Monster HTS2600 which will go in another room. Pricey compared to others but I want best protection I can get and this unit I will keep forever til it dies. Also I have open glass shelf so looks was another reason and having feet vs going with flat rack mount option such as SX 1115rt.

I do plan on getting the cyber power pure sine wave ups as well.....is it safe to put that on the xr315 or just run it directly to the wall outlet?

Also are all SX models the same features? Looking for something for subs only....Don't need 8 outlets such as sx1115rt but would something such as SX DS 154 work for subs or would I be better off getting something different from ESP line? There are so many models that its easy to get lost with all the features.
I have my cyberpower pure sine wave UPS plugged directly into my XR315. I want my UPS to have the same protection as the rest of my gear.
 
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Discussion Starter #153 (Edited)
Looking for something for subs only....Don't need 8 outlets
For subwoofers the 15/20A QC/NX/EV will do, if you want to get "super fancy" then maybe a 15/20A SX/AX.

is it safe to put a ups on the xr315 or just run it directly to the wall outlet?
The UPS needs to be protected.
The SurgeX's are fine for all types of loads. I've used pure inductive and pure resistive and mixed loads.

UPS's don't have surge elimination (they have surge suppression), they also don't have 1000+ 6kV/3kA surge-elimination endurance with zero-failure, the SurgeX does.
Not only does it do all that, it also does it without cutting off the power. (The only time it cuts power is over-current draw and over-voltage RMS/swells.)

UPS's are for blackouts, and brownouts/undervoltage, and small amounts of overvoltage and small power anomalies/nasties. Basically 120V +-20%, before jumping over to battery.

Keep in mind that neither the SurgeX nor interactive UPS's vastly improve power-quality, if you "feel" you need that, it will have to be the online UPS's (most of which have continuous fan noise for cooling since they are always conditioning),
online UPS's have a much higher voltage operating range (they are happy with 60-150v RMS often.)

Online UPS's are primarily for mission-critical applications where zero transfer-times are required, i.e. when transfer times cannot be tolerated (like RAM-based databases and medical/life-safety systems); and where voltage and distortion MUST be keep within very-tight tolerances, say +-5%.

In those cases often multiple online UPS's are used, multiple breakers/feeds are used (from different power companies), and multiple redundant power supplies. That way, if the breaker trips or power company has maintenance or a UPS dies, or PSU dies, the thing is STILL working 100% with both grid-power and backup-power. They often have multiple generators and network feeds too!
The type of setup places like Google and NORAD uses...
[Because if the internet goes down, or if nuke detection/response goes offline, that's really ungood... ;)]

Online UPS's aren't aimed at consumers (but consumers CAN use them if they want to...) It's sort of a waste though unless you have really bad/unreliable power. HT is generally NOT considered "nationally critical". ;)
 

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I currently have an APC H-15 power conditioner and decided to switch to Zero Surge 8R15W-I which is for Audio/Video applications with EMI/RFI filtering.
 

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Discussion Starter #155
I currently have an APC H-15 power conditioner and decided to switch to Zero Surge 8R15W-I which is for Audio/Video applications with EMI/RFI filtering.
If it's anything like the SA series, then it doesn't have swell protection (COVUS), like the fancier models have.
So it will protect against 6000v surges, but not grid-faults or CME's. (If that is important to you...)

Pretty much every UPS has COVUS, so you could always add a UPS downstream from it to gain that feature. (But it is unknown how well-built that feature is.)
 

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@BassThatHz


I have a Monoprice Monolith 5 channel amp coming.
I'm in the country and there is always brown outs.
Can I use the SurgeX-SX-1115RT to plug this amp in?
It's gong to a dedicated 15 amp outlet.
I would also want to plug in my Denon receiver, Oppo, Satellite receiver, Minidsp, PS4, and my new Sony tv.
Or any other rack mount recommendations?
I have this and even though it has a high output plug for amps I'm a little leery.
Or should I just get an SA-15 and plug the amp and tv into it and use my existing Ultralink for the other stuff?
 

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Discussion Starter #157
If you are trying to ride brief blackouts and brownouts, then a puresine UPS is the thing to get.
You can get a CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD which has puresine output for less then $300 on amazon or such, it's one of the cheapest models worth buying. The cheaper UPS's are garbage, and the more expensive ones are more expensive. 😋

You only need a SurgeX if you are "trying" to protect against indirect lightning, solar flares and other grid-malfunctions.

It doesn't have a battery in it, if the voltage goes too high or too low it just disconnects from the grid until the voltage stabilizes, you'll still get a brownout or a blackout. If a brief surge comes in, it will try to eliminate the surge without cutting off the power.

The SX comes in a 15a and 20a model.

I use my SurgeX's to protect my UPS, which then protects the load.
If you have really nasty power, then you'd want to spend the extra money for a online-UPS rather than line-interactive. They are more expensive and have continuous fan noise usually, but offer the highest quality internal UPS components.
 

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Discussion Starter #158
Actually, I'm in the process of changing my electrical topology...
I have both Grid and Solar feeding an ATS, which feeds my SurgeX and then the UPS, and then the load.
If the solar bank is charged up then it automatically enables off-grid solar mode; and when it depletes, it goes back to grid. The goal being to eventually run 100% off-grid, if possible.
The ATS has approximately a 1/8th inch air gap worth of galvanic isolation in solar-mode, any grid-nastiest would have to bridge that before it could even attempt to fry the inverter or SurgeX.

All of this gear is contained in my Faraday shielded rack-room which is roughly 6ftx6ftx8ft. The shielding so far has cost me less than $1000 to do for that size of room, and a few days worth of my elbow-grease. But I'm not done yet, I still have to add metal conduit, which will definitely add to the cost and time. UGH!
The only downside is that the Faraday cage makes things slightly less accessible, but that's a small price to pay compared to the alternative of having 100% fried electronics and sitting in the dark for the last of days.

I look at EMP the same way as I view surge protection:
The shielding won't be perfect, and a flare or EMP or lightning strike might not even occur in our lifetime to my system, and it might even fail to protect my electronics when it does happen.
But if I sit on my thumbs and do nothing, I'm 100%-guaranteed to lose everything...

I do NOT underestimate the power of the sun either! The Earth's magnetic field is the only thing preventing it from being fried to a crisp like Mars. The first things to go are: the power grid, the attached electronics and the satellites. In the case of EMP, even the detached electronics...

The plasma storm is only a matter of time, not if, but when...
The magnetic flux might even be enough cause the earths crust to cavitate like bacon on an induction stove, causing earthquakes and tidal waves.

In hindsight, I probably SHOULD have built that 160db bunker back in January...
Damn 2020... it ain't over yet! 😅
 

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If you are trying to ride brief blackouts and brownouts, then a puresine UPS is the thing to get.
You can get a CyberPower CP1000PFCLCD which has puresine output for less then $300 on amazon or such, it's one of the cheapest models worth buying. The cheaper UPS's are garbage, and the more expensive ones are more expensive. 😋

You only need a SurgeX if you are "trying" to protect against indirect lightning, solar flares and other grid-malfunctions.

It doesn't have a battery in it, if the voltage goes too high or too low it just disconnects from the grid until the voltage stabilizes, you'll still get a brownout or a blackout. If a brief surge comes in, it will try to eliminate the surge without cutting off the power.

The SX comes in a 15a and 20a model.

I use my SurgeX's to protect my UPS, which then protects the load.
If you have really nasty power, then you'd want to spend the extra money for a online-UPS rather than line-interactive. They are more expensive and have continuous fan noise usually, but offer the highest quality internal UPS components.
Good info thanks. Do you know a comparable rack mount version?
 

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Found these. I'd use it for the TV and amp? Do you think it would also handle my 6 Bay NAS & 10 Bay expansion unit and computer?

Amp ??? Using 3 channels of a Monolith 3x200
TV 315w
NAS 58w
EXP 170w
CPU 150w



 
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